Linda O'Leary not guilty.

[lew]

Been watching a bit about this verdict this morning and according to the judge it was determined the other boat had no lights on and Linda O was not speeding and wasn't drunk.

Seems to me there must have been some amount of speed to hit the other boat hard enough to kill 2 people but I wasn't there and didn't witness the crash.

I'm not a judge but have spent an INSANE amount of time over my lifetime fishing in the dark and IMHO driving a boat after dark without using a flashlight to see what's in front of you is just asking for trouble. I couldn't begin to know how many times I came across people fishing with no lights on the boat and I'm sure I would have hit some without a light shining in front of me.

Again, just my opinion but it seems to me if your driving a boat in the darkness without a flashlight and you collide with an anchored, unlit boat you should be held at least partly to blame.

I doubt many people would drive down a dark hiway without headlights and I really don't see a difference.

Just wondering what others may think ?

Edited September 14, 2021 by lew

[Canuck]

I also run at night in my boat, but in pitch dark, you can’t use a flashlight to drive because it kills your night vision and only illuminates what is in the beam.  For me, a light shortens the distance you can see, not the other way around.

I agree that speed had to be a factor though.  You should never drive faster than you can see (strange way to say it, but you know what I mean).  I think the biggest reason she got off was the fact the other boat did not have its anchor lights on.  That is a law that is there for the exact reason that its hard to see boats at night that don’t have the normal nav lights on.

Since the people were star gazing, I expect they went out for a nice night and turned off the anchor/nav lights to be able to see the stars better.  Resulted in a horrible tragedy.  Who knows if they would have been seen if the lights were on.  We’ll never know I guess.

We all need to ensure we have the proper lights on your boat if you are out at night.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Canuck

[lew]

1 hour ago, Canuck said:

I also run at night in my boat, but in pitch dark, you can’t use a flashlight to drive because it kills your night vision and only illuminates what is in the beam.  For me, a light shortens the distance you can see, not the other way around.

 

We're all entitled to our opinions but I was just referring to myself when using a flashlight and for me it worked great for many decades and as stated above it helped keep me from hitting other boats.

[smitty55]

What I find the most alarming is that even though the stargazers had no lights on in their boat they must have heard and seen the other boat nearby and yet none of them had the common sense to at least turn on some lights or shine a flashlight at the other boat to let them know there was a boat anchored. Something still doesn't add up.

 

[Spiel]

There's a reason why navigational lights on a boat are designed not to interfere with the vessel operators vision and yet still provide visual acuity to the where abouts of other vessels operating at night.

I have more than once admonished a passenger for shining a flashlight about if I had not directly requested them to do so.

In short, an unlit boat is a boating hazard.
 

[porkpie]

Late night booze cruise is a possibility. It’s not unusual on cottage lakes to see an unlit pontoon and hear the clink of glasses and laughter.  Stargazing, avoiding attention, call it what you will.  I’ve seen it many times on the family cottage lake.  Mind you, who takes a shot of booze when returning to the dock after a late night collision when your son has just called 911.  I’d say their is negligence on both sides here.  Truth will never come out because there is too much money on both sides!  

[Terry]

A boat the size of theirs would do major damage even going 10 km 

I was trolling out from picton one night  and all but ran into a boat that was sitting with no lights , we ( the 4 of us) could not see the boat  none of us drank any booze and about  15 ft from the other boat we heard them yell and still couldn’t see them we stopped and drifted into the boat but used our hands to push off to not do damage 

 

 

I agree with the outcome of this ruling 

 

 

[AKRISONER]

I personally believe her sobriety is based on a technicality, but nearly impossible to prove due to the circumstances. 
 

I also believe the people that got hit are totally negligent as well for parking a boat at night with no lights on. Heck, unlit boats are nearly impossible to see at twighlight if they get up against the shoreline. Multiple times I’ve seemingly had boats just appear out of nowhere after cutting to the middle of the lake after being near shore after the sun has gone down with no lights on.

a tragedy is what I would call this on all parts. Two people are dead because people didn’t follow the rules.

[John]

I have my own strong opinions on this tragedy. Who was actually driving, alcohol, speed and of course MONEY to afford the legal council of Greenspan...... and have had from the start of the investigation. I have no wish to share them in detail here as this is the type of thread that goes South quickly. 'Nuff said!

[dave524]

Our media and the O'Leary's are at opposite ends of the political spectrum, the press was in a hanging mode but justice prevailed.

[craigdritchie]

It seems like everyone has an opinion on this, or an opinion of the people involved. Putting that all aside, the security camera video evidence is crystal clear.

https://youtu.be/KaQwdSekfQg

At the 1:35 mark you can see the O'Leary's boat appear, with its lights on. At 1:53, it hits the other boat. At 2:10, the other boat begins turning on its lights.

Regardless of who has money and who doesn't, the one thing that cannot be disputed is that the boat Mrs O'Leary hit did not have its lights on. The court got it right, fault lies with the operator of the second boat.

Everything else is just window dressing.

 

[Canuck]

5 hours ago, craigdritchie said:

It seems like everyone has an opinion on this, or an opinion of the people involved. Putting that all aside, the security camera video evidence is crystal clear.

https://youtu.be/KaQwdSekfQg

At the 1:35 mark you can see the O'Leary's boat appear, with its lights on. At 1:53, it hits the other boat. At 2:10, the other boat begins turning on its lights.

Regardless of who has money and who doesn't, the one thing that cannot be disputed is that the boat Mrs O'Leary hit did not have its lights on. The court got it right, fault lies with the operator of the second boat.

Everything else is just window dressing.

 

I had not seen that video before.  Its very clear.  I agree with you 100%.  And it actually looks like the O'leary boat was not going at high speed.   Maybe a bit too high for a moonless night, but if they know the lake I can see why they might be running at that speed.  Its rarely just one mistake that causes tragedy, but I will bet that if they had their lights on, there would be two people alive today.

[pics]

Before I saw the video I had assumed fault was with Linda O'Leary. I  also assumed that the boat that was hit would be after some big bucks... you know what they say about assuming....🤦‍♂️

[captpierre]

Pretty sure this isn’t over. No criminal charges but civil suits are sure to follow. 

[lew]

2 minutes ago, captpierre said:

civil suits are sure to follow. 

As I said in my original post, if someone on the O'Leary boat had taken a second to scan the waters ahead once in awhile, none of this would have happened.

No deaths, no injuries and no lawsuits.

Sad deal all around.

[captpierre]

I guess the court was trying to decide whether a crime was committed.  For sure it would have been wise to proceed more slowly and scan appropriately for the conditions.  But foolishness is usually not a crime.  But where is the line 🤷🏻‍♂️

[dave524]

Seems the police almost crashed doing a re-enactment and they had radio comms between the 2 boats, they cancelled the re-enactment cause they deemed it too dangerous. I'm sure most here now how dark it can be in the north on a moonless night  https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/mandel-unlit-boat-involved-in-oleary-crash-impossible-to-see-in-opp-simulation

Edited September 17, 2021 by dave524

[glen]

If you can’t see while driving on the lake how do you keep from running into shore?  Lots of unlit stationary objects to run into.  
lf your driving down a road in a car do you speed up if you can’t see? If you rear end a car in poor visibility who’s at fault?

If you run into a stopped object you are going too fast.  

 

 

[John Bacon]

I also find that a flash light makes it harder to see at night.  Especially if the person shines it down into the hull of the boat.

 

[Sinker]

I do a lot of running at night. I find the best thing is a hand held spot light. One that plugs into your main power, not a rechargable one, they always die when you need them most. I run with my bow light on, and I shine the spot light as needed to scan for anything in my way.  I use a bright spotlight, if you can't see me coming, your blind, or asleep. 

I also agree that running with too many lights is blinding, especially if there is any fog, or mist coming off the water, its brutal. Can't see anything. Those nights I run with just the bow light, and use my spot light as little as I can. 

I don't know why everyone assumed O'leary was guilty. That video tells all for me. 

 

S. 

[lew]

2 hours ago, Sinker said:

 I shine the spot light as needed to scan for anything in my way. 

Exactly the point I was trying to make Shane, scan the area then turn the light off again, not running down the lake with flood lights on and trying to light up the other side of the lake.

[Dara]

Just outlaw boating after sunset

[chris.brock]

bull crap, an egotist like kevin always drives, he doesn't say- honey I've had a couple, can you take the wheel, and she puts the hammer down and goes ripping down the lake in the dark, it just doesn't happen that way, 2 people dead and justice denied 

[smitty55]

1 hour ago, chris.brock said:

bull crap, an egotist like kevin always drives, he doesn't say- honey I've had a couple, can you take the wheel, and she puts the hammer down and goes ripping down the lake in the dark, it just doesn't happen that way, 2 people dead and justice denied 

Wow, you must know Kevin quite well to make that assumption. So according to you the people in the boat that was hit didn't even see the driver? I think not, they would certainly have said something if he was driving. Plus the video clearly shows that the boat certainly wasn't ripping around, don't know why you assume that too.

Edited September 19, 2021 by smitty55

[chris.brock]

I haven't seen the video, please inform and post it, 2 people died I assume that some speed (ripping around) was involved to cause that, a fender bender doesn't leave 2 people dead