Winterizing. Stabil vs run motor dry

[Tjames09]

It’s that time of year to put yard equipment away. Do you guys prefer to run stabil or run the motor dry of gas and empty the tank. 

[AKRISONER]

Empty tank = condensation

oxygen (i.e. air) in an empty space = corrosion

 

fill everything up and stabilize the hell out of it. Then fog it by spraying fogging oil into the carb/injectors

[BillM]

Fill tank up, change oil, make sure both the motors are fully down.  

[Dan668]

Add stabil, ive never run anything dry of gas and have had zero issues. 

[smitty55]

For small engines I would recommend seafoam over stabil for sure. I actually use it all year as a maintenance and then add extra for winter storage.  Stabil is a glycol based product that basically just sits on top of your fuel whereas Seafoam is petroleum based product which works better to prevent phase separation and actually cleans your engine when used, which stabil does not.

 

Cheers

[Old Ironmaker]

1 hour ago, Dan668 said:

Add stabil, ive never run anything dry of gas and have had zero issues. 

And I have always run the engines tanks dry in my 2 stroke engines, lawnmower, weed wacker and chainsaw and have had zero issues. I was told by a chemical engineer a closed fuel tank with fuel in it will not rust because there is zero 02 in it. For example if the tank is say 3/4 full the other quarter is full of gases and is under positive pressure. The theory is proven when a fuel tank gets hot, those gases expand and the plastic gas can gets a bulge in it. On the boat those gases will come out the vent and occasionally if the tank is fairly full fuel spills out onto the ground, hopefully not the water. Even on a vehicle the gasses under positive pressure will occasionally make a sound when the gas cap is removed. That's part of the long running discussion fill the boat with fuel or empty the tank when winterizing? Or just leave what is left in the tank in the Fall. I fill the boats tank to the max and add a fuel stabilizer (2 plus 4) after fogging the carbs and running the carbs and fuel system dry. Only because fuel prices generally go up in the spring and I might have saved a few bucks or more buying less expensive gas in November. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Old Ironmaker

[Big Cliff]

Perhaps there should be a third selection in the poll, "other".

Two strokes get their lubrication from the oil mixed in the fuel, when you run them dry that's exactly what you are doing to the engine, running it dry (without lubrication), yes it's only for seconds but trust me it's still not good for the engine. The other thing is running it dry leaves diaphragms and seals dry while in storage which can cause problems.

I am not a big fan of stabilizers, I have seen way too many engines that are messed up because of them, people tend to over use them and engines aren't designed to run on stabilizers. Besides that they are expensive and some of them can/will actually absorb water from the atmosphere which ends up in the bottom of your tank.

My preferred method is: use high test (non ethanol) fuel in all your equipment at least for the last run of the season, you can drain your tank for storage if you want but don't run the engine dry.

 

 

[Lape0019]

I have an Evinrude so use their products.

Last tank of the season, I throw ion their 4+2 and let her run to work up into the engine.

I do not believe in letting anything run dry.

[glen]

Running dry was a thing when using a 2stroke and removing it and laying down in the back of a truck 

know I run stabil in all small motors 

 

 

[tb4me]

I always ran my 70hp Johnson dry. Its a 1982 motor and still running well..After reading this post I wont anymore lol

[pics]

Non ethanol fuel and some seafoam.. never any problems..

[aplumma]

Never run a two stroke dry it will remove any lubrication till it stalls as well as heating up the rings and cylinder thus drying any lubrication it would have had. Carb seals and gaskets dry and crack when left dry. Better to keep the tank full using the correct oil mix and use marine staybil in the tank. Using Seafoam and allowing it to stay in the fuel tank all winter is not a good idea it is a solvent in the tank which will dissolve all of the varnish and gook  and then it will be sent into the carburetor in the spring. 

[Mister G]

I use Evinrude's 2+4 fuel treatment to it's recommended dose for storage in the boat's gas tank and run the boat a time or two with it already added. My ETEC has a winterization mode that takes less then 2 minutes at the launch or in my driveway. Can be done many times if you decide to use the boat again before actually putting it to bed for the winter.

[TJQ]

Full tank of super gas and some seafoam...  started doing that a few years ago and am happy.

[Old Ironmaker]

On 10/15/2019 at 7:30 AM, Big Cliff said:

Perhaps there should be a third selection in the poll, "other".

Two strokes get their lubrication from the oil mixed in the fuel, when you run them dry that's exactly what you are doing to the engine, running it dry (without lubrication), yes it's only for seconds but trust me it's still not good for the engine. The other thing is running it dry leaves diaphragms and seals dry while in storage which can cause problems.

 

 

I always assumed that the Fogging spray had oil in it to coat all the fuel system. What is the purpose of fogging the fuel system if not that? I learned in my Small Engine repair class at the local Com. College never leave a drop of fuel in the system. Phase separation will gum up all the little metal components in the carb(s), fuel lines etc. .

I have been using Hi Octane fuel for the last 5 years and added the Phase Separation product 2 plus 4. Sometimes it doesn't fire right up in spring but once it does just look at the key and she will start.

[Canuck]

I have always run my little 8hp Yamaha 2 stroke dry for winter.  If its running, it getting oil/fuel and it dies when the oil/fuel runs out.  So I am not worried about it not getting oil for the last split second while it dies.  Its been 10 years and no issues.  BUT, last year I made the mistake of not filling up the portable fuel tank before winter.  It sat in the shed for the winter withonly about a gallon of fuel in it.  Filled it up in the spring and it ran like crap.  There was a lot of condensation water that built up in the tank over winter.  Had to flush the tank, change the filter and run sea foam through it to get it running right.  So lesson is that you should leave the tank full and stabilized over winter.

[captpierre]

Not a mechanical guy but is there not still fuel left in the carb bowl after letting a 4 stroke carborated motor   run dry?  My Honda lawn mower and pressure sprayer motors recommended draining the bowl after letting run dry. It’s in the manual. 

[Garnet]

I run Shell gas in all small engines.

All Shell gas has nitrous no ethanol from regular to 98.

Then I treat with sea foam because it has no self life.

 

[Big Cliff]

14 hours ago, captpierre said:

Not a mechanical guy but is there not still fuel left in the carb bowl after letting a 4 stroke carborated motor   run dry?  My Honda lawn mower and pressure sprayer motors recommended draining the bowl after letting run dry. It’s in the manual. 

If you run it dry, it's dry, there should be VERY little if any fuel left in the bowl. Removing the drain plug won't hurt anything and if there is any water or dirt in the bowl it might help.

[aplumma]

 

The running of a 4 stroke dry has no effect on the lubrication of the mechanical parts this only applies to two strokes. I personally run my two stroke to the point where it first sputters with intermittent shots of fogging oil and then choke it out using full spray of the fogging oil. This puts a nice coating on the mechanical parts as well as allowing some to back feed into the float bowl and coating the carb. Four strokes can be done the same way except you do not need to intermittently spray the carb as it uses the last bit of fuel but then gag it when it sputters. 

Art

[Old Ironmaker]

6 hours ago, aplumma said:

 

The running of a 4 stroke dry has no effect on the lubrication of the mechanical parts this only applies to two strokes. I personally run my two stroke to the point where it first sputters with intermittent shots of fogging oil and then choke it out using full spray of the fogging oil. This puts a nice coating on the mechanical parts as well as allowing some to back feed into the float bowl and coating the carb. Four strokes can be done the same way except you do not need to intermittently spray the carb as it uses the last bit of fuel but then gag it when it sputters. 

Art

So the fogging spray does have oil in it. Art said so, sorry guys I would take Art's advise here above all others. Therefor one shouldn't have a fear that a dry fuel system will rust because it's never dry if you fog the system. I am still confident that there is no or very little air in a fuel tank. Moisture yes, especially if the fuel has Ethanol in it. That's why you add a phase separation additive to the fuel, regular or Hi-Test Shell, I use Shell 98. I didn't use my kicker for the last 3 years. That makes the 1/2 tank of fuel with oil added 3 or 4 years old. I was going to take it along with all the old paint to the counties recycle day but they told me I need to leave the 75  buck portable tank there, nope. Another subject for another thread. 

[captpierre]

11 minutes ago, Old Ironmaker said:

So the fogging spray does have oil in it. Art said so, sorry guys I would take Art's advise here above all others. Therefor one shouldn't have a fear that a dry fuel system will rust because it's never dry if you fog the system. I am still confident that there is no or very little air in a fuel tank. Moisture yes, especially if the fuel has Ethanol in it. That's why you add a phase separation additive to the fuel, regular or Hi-Test Shell, I use Shell 98. I didn't use my kicker for the last 3 years. That makes the 1/2 tank of fuel with oil added 3 or 4 years old. I was going to take it along with all the old paint to the counties recycle day but they told me I need to leave the 75  buck portable tank there, nope. Another subject for another thread. 

I’m pretty sure only high test Shell is ethanol free. Same with Esso. 

[Old Ironmaker]

27 minutes ago, captpierre said:

I’m pretty sure only high test Shell is ethanol free. Same with Esso. 

You are correct Sir.

[Sinker]

I run seafoam and premium ethanol free fuel all the time. It hasn't hurt anything and I've had no issues at all. I've never ran an engine dry in my life, and I've never drained a carb or fogged an engine either.  

S. 

[Canuck]

On 10/17/2019 at 6:57 AM, Garnet said:

I run Shell gas in all small engines.

All Shell gas has nitrous no ethanol from regular to 98.

Then I treat with sea foam because it has no self life.

 

Only Shell's premium Nitro+ has no ethanol.  All the lower grades have ethanol.  All gas companies are required to blend a total minimum of 10% ethanol in the total volume they sell in Canada.  The lower grades get the most (usually more than 10 and up to 15%).  Mid grade is probably blended around 10% and the premium may have no ethanol.  Shell does advertise that their premium has no ethanol.  So if you want to buy gas at the pumps with no ethanol, you have to buy premium grade.  Marina's normally sell ethanol free gas only (ours does)