GM CLOSING IN OSHAWA -----N F

[crappieperchhunter]

3 minutes ago, jimmer said:

This is very sad for the whole area. It will affect more than just the GM workers, as many have said.  All those workers support local charities through payroll deduction, so the hurt will go deeper than people losing their jobs. The writing has been on the wall for years, going back to the implementation of the free trade agreement. Lindsay was decimated when free trade hit, closing down Abex, LOF and Trent Rubber, not sure the area has even recovered yet.

I was wondering if one of the union guys on here can explain the reaction of the union leaders ranting about not accepting this decision and they will appeal it?  Do unions have the power to reverse a decision by a private company?

Yesterdays Courtice paper mentioned that the current agreement actually runs until Sept 2020. I would think that is about all they can fight...but that only buys the employees one more year.

[OhioFisherman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_sucking_sound

Ross Perot was right! That nafta agreement decimated manufacturing in this area, there was an older Fisher body plant on the east side of Cleveland, it was turned into a used machinery store to sell all the equipment from factories closing up because of it.

I seriously doubt if there is anything the union can do except to try and get enough public and political support to change some of these " free trade " agreements, they all seem to have hidden costs?

[craigdritchie]

1 hour ago, jimmer said:

Do unions have the power to reverse a decision by a private company?

 

Absolutely not. They can jaw all they want, but it's just hot air.

[lew]

23 minutes ago, craigdritchie said:

 

. They can jaw all they want, but it's just hot air.

That's basically what Doug Ford said yesterday, the Union Leaders are just spreading false hope to the workers when there's really nothing they can do to stop the plant closure.

[Jds63]

19 hours ago, OhioFisherman said:

My mom and youngest brother bought a couple of new cars years ago, like a 1977 mercury cougar and a 1978 ford thunderbird, the back bumpers fell of of both of them a year apart. Mom's fell off as she pulled into our driveway a few months after the warranty expired, and it wasn't like a big bump she hit.

Funny that our auto executives seem to think they are worth millions of dollars a year more than the Japanese auto executives?

Right on OhioFisherman ..

I worked at GM in the office back in the hayday ... got let go years ago in a restructuring of depts .

Here is what the outgoing CEO got after the financial crisis... LOL what a joke ... 

Outgoing GM (GM) Chief Rick Wagoner is set to walk into the sunset with a $20 million payout, according to Michelle Leder's analysis of GM's filings.

https://www.businessinsider.com/rick-wagoner-getting-20-million-retirement-payout-2009-3

[DRIFTER_016]

Saw today that one of the local suppliers to GM located in Ajax said it's closing it's door now.

There will be many more to come I'm sure. 

[SirCranksalot]

"Under Wagoner's leadership, GM lost tens of billions of dollars, took billions in taxpayer-financed aid, and cut tens of thousands of jobs, including announced plans to cut 47,000 employees by the end of 2009."

 and somebody calls that "leadership"!!!

 

 

[GBW]

7 hours ago, jimmer said:

This is very sad for the whole area. It will affect more than just the GM workers, as many have said.  All those workers support local charities through payroll deduction, so the hurt will go deeper than people losing their jobs. The writing has been on the wall for years, going back to the implementation of the free trade agreement. Lindsay was decimated when free trade hit, closing down Abex, LOF and Trent Rubber, not sure the area has even recovered yet.

RE: the bold part, nope the industrial area where Fleetwood was is still far from a busy or even used area.  I've only lived in Lindsay for 5 years now and zero new there.  Even the call center is closing next month cause that site when union and other nordia's are doing well.  The 2 or 3 union sites, not so good, more so cause one closed in Lindsay Dec 22...  

I work at the Chevy dealership in town as a service advisor and since this started I've been asked MANY times a day how things are going to change or going to affect US (town and my dealership) and I give my honest answer till I know more and my answer is this.  "You could see it coming for years as I lived in Durham not that far from the plant but it's not just Oshawa that is closing, there are other NA locations too.  We here will be just fine"  

[chris.brock]

Don't expect to see this guy at your dealership Geoff, lol.

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by chris.brock

[irishfield]

..all bought on the employee "Family first" FULL discount that GM gives them at basically zero profit.

[GBW]

52 minutes ago, chris.brock said:

Don't expect to see this guy at your dealership Geoff, lol.

If he's close and needs warranty work then just maybe.

25 minutes ago, irishfield said:

..all bought on the employee "Family first" FULL discount that GM gives them at basically zero profit.

More than likely as I'd say close to 50% our service customers are ex GM in some way and STILL get a discount.  

[chris.brock]

36 minutes ago, irishfield said:

..all bought on the employee "Family first" FULL discount that GM gives them at basically zero profit.

no, even with the employee discount, the dealership, salesperson and car company all make a profit

and now when they advertise employee pricing for everyone, it is actually employee pricing for everyone

[grimsbylander]

We can't have it both ways folks. We can clamp down on imports by imposing tariffs and level the playing field against offshore competitors, or try to compete and watch the economy dwindle. This thing with GM isnt new and it's not the last company that will pull out. As long as we continue to demand $400 50" TV's, dollar stores check full of cheap chinese junk, and maintain a price before quality mentality, WE will drive businesses offshore. The dude above holding the sign, where do you think his friggin wife shops??? Was he out holding a sign when the Oshawa Sears store closed?? Its all Bull, sorry. We can't have one set of economic rules that support high paying union jobs for a select few and a wide open trade economy for the masses. And before anyone drops the "I'll pay $3000 for a TV if it means more jobs", you won't. Look around your house and think about everything that was imported. Now imagine a 2x or 3x price increase on those items. The only way out of this mess is to slowly limit imports to encourage local manufacturing and generate jobs; while incurring moderate price increases only. The Have-nots will love it, and the Haves will scream. And since they both get a vote and currently there's way more Haves in this country, the politician that tries that will be history. I know which way I'd vote.

 

[Jmeyer]

After the 08 crash and GM restructured after bankruptcy they outsourced tons of work to countries like India and China to bring down the cost or increase the margins. At that time the average GM vehicle was costing 8-14k to produce, I'm sure it's increased since then but I would bet it hasn't inflated at the same rate as there sticker prices. So it begs the question, where is the profit going? Certainly not back into the communities that build and support these manufacturers.

[Jmeyer]

Guess it boils down to consumer power, I choose to shop local but I could do better, I refuse to use self checkouts and fast food kiosks because I think entry level jobs and jobs that subsidizes crappy pensions are important.... Toyota is Canada's largest producer for auto so I'm thinking tundra next time. 

[OhioFisherman]

31 minutes ago, Jmeyer said:

After the 08 crash and GM restructured after bankruptcy they outsourced tons of work to countries like India and China to bring down the cost or increase the margins. At that time the average GM vehicle was costing 8-14k to produce, I'm sure it's increased since then but I would bet it hasn't inflated at the same rate as there sticker prices. So it begs the question, where is the profit going? Certainly not back into the communities that build and support these manufacturers.

I haven't worked since 2003, but even before that it was a pretty common complaint from smaller companies that supplied parts to the auto companies. They want us to cut our prices to them so their executives can make more! Some of those smaller companies were trapped by allowing the auto companies to become their major source of business.

[Tom S]

11 minutes ago, chris.brock said:

please lock this one Art, it's creating a rift between the white and blue collar, guys that think their intellect is sooo valuable and they don't have to roll up their sleeves and actually do WORK

To be completely blunt I think it's been a pretty decent conversation until you started throwing comments like this out tonight.

General consensus seems to be placing the blame on a large range of factors not directly related to either GM management or the union. A rapidly changing automotive sector, ridiculous antics by governments on both sides of the border, high energy costs, and a consumer that demands more for less have all created an environment where GM needed to reduce operations, and Oshawa unfortunately is one of the multiple plants they have decided to  shut down. It sucks for the people directly involved, but we need to ask ourselves is it more worthwhile to prop up an unsustainable business model by throwing good money after bad? Or would that money be better spent attracting new, vibrant, growing companies to areas with infrastructure and a workforce? Oshawa should begin actively pursing new companies now, before they become a ghost town.  

[chris.brock]

it's stuffed and I was hoping that Trump might be spurred but he's been quiet, other than Oshawa there's 3 in the USA closing

[dave524]

Historically Canada's economy was built on natural resources as well, mining, pulp and paper, lumber and oil still a majour  component of our economy compared to most industrialized countries. At one time newsprint was the sole economy of many towns , then the fall of the daily newspaper probably put more out of work than the fall of the auto industry.

[DRIFTER_016]

13 hours ago, chris.brock said:

it's stuffed and I was hoping that Trump might be spurred but he's been quiet, other than Oshawa there's 3 in the USA closing

https://www.powernationtv.com/post/trump-threatens-to-end-gm-subsidies-after-hearing-about-cutbacks?fbclid=IwAR25U8YxNT44EVhP_mOwVJ268BX-bxJMPKLwvxRSRdQbV1lumDd1oPWmMjE

[Fisherman]

15 hours ago, chris.brock said:

$300 for crap VWs to $1 for Quebec maple syrup, move to auschwitz if your grandkids want a job

 

My family has had a fair number of "Krautmobiles" if you want to call them that and a fair number of N/A products.  Without a doubt I would buy VW over any N/A product, reliability and retaining value is one of their good points.  Unfortunate they didn't bring their small truck to Can/US, they would have put a good dent in the midsize truck market.

[Old Ironmaker]

Brand loyalty? I call Bull. If a big ticket product is less money than the brand we say we are loyal to the loyalist will buy it. My Silverado new was 10K less then my neighbours new F-150. But I didn't get a fake plastic woodgrain dash.

As far as an Auto Workers wage as $34.00 an hour I call Bull again. With health and dental benefits, major medical and the big one, legacy costs that wage is closer to 60 bucks an hour not the $34.00 that is calculated per hour. 

[aplumma]

To keep this open I did some editing to get it back in line. Please be courteous and respect other opinions. Going down the same road as before will end this thread. 

Thanks Art

[Fisherman]

Seriously I think a lot of countries have "done it" to themselves,  30+ years or so when the big box stores opened, everyone ran to Wmart, Target, etc because your dollar could go further.  It's part of human nature to find the easy way, do less work and buy more without thinking of the end result.  We are probably all guilty to one extent or another.  Years ago you could still find products made at home or quality products to say the least and the prices were not that hard to swallow.  Now look where people go, 24 hour stores where the vast majority of the products come from a handfull of countries for dirt cheap.  Do we care, no, throw it away and buy another, fill our dumps with their garbage, not realizing we just paid twice for more garbage.   Take a walk through any larger store, turn over 10 items to see where it's made.   When it comes to foreign autos,  ya 40+ years ago if you took the door panel off a Datsun you might find a Coke emblem faintly visible.   The joke used to be on a clear quiet night you can hear a Ford rust,  well if you bought a Pacific import, the next morning there was just a pile of rust left in the driveway.  But, they learned and quality grew in leaps and bounds,  that's why they have prospered.   Point in fact, last truck I bought had a broken ABS sensor module right from the factory.  So some schmuck on the line said oh fuddle duddle it,  to bad so sad.  I can only say I bought 2 GM products,  I didn't learn the first time, shame on me.  Maybe the public should have a vote on whether or not companies get handouts, repaid or not.  If you fail, some3one else will pop up and possibly prosper.  Honda and Toyo seem to be doing well.  Remember next ime you go to the big store, where is your money going, offshore.

[misfish]

1 hour ago, Old Ironmaker said:

Brand loyalty? I call Bull. If a big ticket product is less money than the brand we say we are loyal to the loyalist will buy it. My Silverado new was 10K less then my neighbours new F-150. But I didn't get a fake plastic woodgrain dash.

As far as an Auto Workers wage as $34.00 an hour I call Bull again. With health and dental benefits, major medical and the big one, legacy costs that wage is closer to 60 bucks an hour not the $34.00 that is calculated per hour. 

I bought my Truck not cuz it was a Dodge, I bought it because the ticket price out the door at end of year ,was $18 grand brand new. It was a deal IMO. Now I am dealing with what I had no idea was an issue with them. Pulsing rear brakes. Seems this has been a prob for awhile. Brake maintenance every 6 months so I have been told. If that's all I have to deal with, $18 grand for a truck for my needs, is a bargain. TOUCHES WOOD.