NF-Should winter tires be mandatory in Ontario

[Terry]

Question??? back when rear wheeled drive cars/bias ply tires were the only option we only put snows on the back, are we talking all four wheels now for all vehicles or just those of the front wheel drive variety?

I was thinking the same thing

 

I remember wanting 4 snow tires on my car and the tire guy telling me , why throw away good money .you only need snows on the drive wheels...my how things have changed

[Bernie]

Question??? back when rear wheeled drive cars/bias ply tires were the only option we only put snows on the back, are we talking all four wheels now for all vehicles or just those of the front wheel drive variety?

Hi Dave.

You could get away with that to a certain extent with a rear driven, front engine vehicle.

Most of the weight is forward biased and that weight is on the front tires which creates traction for braking and steering.

Still is best to put all 4 winters on though.

[lew]

Back in the day when most vehicles were rear wheel drive it was pretty normal to only use "snow" tires on the back. Decent traction but steering could still be an issue.

[wallyboss]

Only winter tires on the drive wheels are okay for going thru snow in a straight line. On Fwd vehicles they can easily throw the back end around when you are turning.

[Old Man]

Some poor driving mixed with some bad tire choices. Studded winters anyone? They're legal through out the whole province of Alberta. Should be legal through out all of Ontario too. That said, it's a matter of personal choice and it should be left that way. I'll always chose the safer option.

 

http://youtu.be/GpJ16qbqH-I

 

[Jon]

I didn't read the whole thread and I'm sitting on the fence in terms of mandating winter tires but I thought this video was interesting. It is a British video on an indoor skihill comparing front wheel drive and 4WD Ford Escapes with and without snow tires. I'm not going to spoil the results so you will have to watch.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuE00qdhLA

 

Also keep in mind that it is not just accelerating that matters - snow tires help with stopping.

 

Jon

[jimmer]

Many of them already do. Mine does.

I guess I'm a little more cynical than you. They just find another way to make the $$$$$.

Glad it's working for you though.

[lookinforwalleye]

I didn't read the whole thread and I'm sitting on the fence in terms of mandating winter tires but I thought this video was interesting. It is a British video on an indoor skihill comparing front wheel drive and 4WD Ford Escapes with and without snow tires. I'm not going to spoil the results so you will have to watch.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuE00qdhLA

 

Also keep in mind that it is not just accelerating that matters - snow tires help with stopping.

 

Jon

And that is why my Jeep has snows on it....I could be wrong but the Escape is a AWD vehicle is it not and AWD is no match for a Jeep`s 4x4 system.

[Dara]

I didn't read the whole thread and I'm sitting on the fence in terms of mandating winter tires but I thought this video was interesting. It is a British video on an indoor skihill comparing front wheel drive and 4WD Ford Escapes with and without snow tires. I'm not going to spoil the results so you will have to watch.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuE00qdhLA

 

Also keep in mind that it is not just accelerating that matters - snow tires help with stopping.

 

Jon

 

 

and with getting around corners...they really help with getting around corners..

[Jon]

Lookinforwalleye:

 

The brochure for the 2105 Escape lists either front wheel drive or available Intelligent 4WD system (4WD models only). Not exactly sure what the difference is between this and 4x4 on a Jeep. I'm sure there are no locking diffs on an Escape though. AWD is still touted by manufacturers to be better than FrontWD in snow.

 

Jon

[lookinforwalleye]

The Intelligent part of means all the systems are integrated electronically to control wheel spin, the Cherokee for example also has this system but also has the ability to lock so true 4 wheel drive IMHO if you can`t lock it in place it is AWD don`t care what Ford call it...having said that if I had a choice between 2 WD and AWD I would take AWD.

[Spiel]

Everyone that runs in snow should have 4 good winter tires installed on their vehicle.

It's night and day difference in handling accelerating and probably most important, braking.

 

Ya, I know, heard it before, many times in fact, "I don't need em".

Well, maybe you don't if you only go out and drive on sunny days and no ice or snow on the road.

All it takes is for someone or something to pull out in front and you can't stop.

 

Many reputable tire shops will refuse to install 2 snows only. They know the risk.

Lets say you have two top notch winter tires on the front of your front drive car. You are cruising along in a couple inches of snow or ice covered road. It feels real good cause the tires are working as they should. But you suddenly need to make a lane change or a gust of wind hits you sideways. The back end of the car has no traction and around you go. Into the ditch backwards. Ever see that happen?

 

 

[Cookslav]

Food for thought....

Not all radials are created equal, quality, width tread pattern etc...

Also Food for thought ...all weather radials vs all season radials...big difference.

That youtube video featured a standard all season radial.

All weather radials have a more aggressive tread pattern.

and based on our southern ontario winters...i think they are more applicable IMO

 

There are down sides to snow tires to...they are not the miracle tire you might think.

Snow tires have a more open tread pattern that bites down into snow better and then allows the snow to be thrown out of the groove. The pattern typically is not so optimized for channeling away water as with an all season tire. At low speeds the differences in water channeling are not significant. However, because of the open pattern, there is less rubber surface area to contact the road with snow tires. This can make for longer stopping distances in rain.

 

If your in snow...heavy set snow, yep winter snow tires are gonna be the choice.

But sorry, here in Kitchener I drive on wet or dry Ashphault 80% of the year, slush 10% and set deep snow 10%

Kal tire's proffesional reccomendations right here

States all weather tire are suitable for Milder winter conditions with heavy rain, snowfall that melts quickly and slush
For me...south of 7....that sounds about right and thats from the experts

 

http://www.kaltire.com/all-season-vs-all-weather-vs-winter-tires

[BillM]

If you're doing a lot of dry pavement driving, a performance winter tire is what you want.

[Cookslav]

We should just swtich daily depending on conditions lol...just need a hoist and impact gun.

[BillM]

Wouldn't that be nice

[Freshtrax]

Learn to drive . Let's put this one to bed. Snow tires help but you can't fix stupid.

[kickingfrog]

But if stupid can't be fixed then at least put on winter tires.

[ch312]

But if stupid can't be fixed then at least put on winter tires.

 

You're missing the point. Stupid drivers are stupid drivers regardless of how good their tires are and no tire can make up for lack of driving skill or knowledge.

 

Saying that winter tires somehow turns bad drivers into good drivers is like saying all a drunk has to do to sober up is chew a piece of gum. In both cases you're simply using a cover up rather than dealing with the root cause. The bad driver is still a bad driver and the drunk is still drunk. In both cases a bandaid has been applied to make thing's seem okay when it's not.

 

 

 

Mandatory snow tires will make our roads much safer, just like the mandatory boater card stopped stupid on the water.

[kickingfrog]

 

You're missing the point. Stupid drivers are stupid drivers regardless of how good their tires are and no tire can make up for lack of driving skill or knowledge.

 

Saying that winter tires somehow turns bad drivers into good drivers is like saying all a drunk has to do to sober up is chew a piece of gum. In both cases you're simply using a cover up rather than dealing with the root cause. The bad driver is still a bad driver and the drunk is still drunk. In both cases a bandaid has been applied to make thing's seem okay when it's not.

 

 

 

Mandatory snow tires will make our roads much safer, just like the mandatory boater card stopped stupid on the water.

 

You're right. The point has been missed. Bad drivers will always be bad drivers. The root cause can't/won't be "fixed", no matter how much we'd like it to be. Bad drivers with winter tires are going to have more control, and I'll take that over a bad driver with no-seasons and no control.

 

If a fool is going to whistle I'd rather he have winter tires while doing it.

[206]

Some poor driving mixed with some bad tire choices. Studded winters anyone? They're legal through out the whole province of Alberta. Should be legal through out all of Ontario too. That said, it's a matter of personal choice and it should be left that way. I'll always chose the safer option.

 

http://youtu.be/GpJ16qbqH-I

 

These video kill me.. I'll give the 1st 5 people the benefit of the doubt but after that really?? How do people not see the cars sitting sideways head lights facing the wrong direction 4way flashes ect. on the road ahead????

I'm sure if they looked where they were going they could have reduced speed or stopped before crashing no matter what tires they have on!!

[lookinforwalleye]

How do people not see the cars sitting sideways head lights facing the wrong direction 4way flashes ect. on the road ahead????

I

Because by and large humans are STUPID!!!! Most OFC members excluded of course!!!!

[SirCranksalot]

 

You're missing the point. Stupid drivers are stupid drivers regardless of how good their tires are and no tire can make up for lack of driving skill or knowledge.

 

 

 

 

But bear in mind that 90% of drivers consider themselves above average!! I wish that was a joke, but it isn't!!

[Fisherpete]

My 2WD Ford Escape is totally useless in the winter with all seasons on, even a brand new set and yes, I do know how to drive. There is simply no comparison between all seasons and winter tires. On winters, the tire compound remains pliable at temperatures below 7C and has more traction with the road. The lugs are also designed to clear slush and snow. If you haven't tried them, you really don't know just how much of a difference they make. I used to drive an Acura Integra with a set of Michelin X-Ice snows on it, and that vehicle was absolutely incredible in the winter. I remember coming home from ice fishing in a severe blizzard once and passing hundreds of SUV's and trucks and other vehicles on the 400 because they were sliding all over the place or were already stuck.

 

It is my opinion that you won't change the majority of people's poor driving habits, but through law you can force their hand to change their equipment for the greater good of all. This will reduce the amount of accidents and injuries as well as reducing gridlock issues by vehicles getting stuck or not being to drive up even small hills. The data from Quebec certainly supports this.

 

I would also be fine with the German system of no snows no insurance coverage during the winter season.

 

It seems like a big initial expense, but really it is not when you factor in the wear and tear savings to your all seasons/summer tires.

 

I get that people don't like being told that they have to spend money - but when public safety is the main issue than it really should be a no brainer. And many people simply don't know just how good snows even are so they would fight against it uninformed. Maybe the government could give a significant tax write-off for the first five years that the law is passed to soften the initial blow.

[Fisherpete]

Mandatory snow tires will make our roads much safer, just like the mandatory boater card stopped stupid on the water.

Some people will never change... stupid is stupid. I have personally seen an improvement on the water in the past 10 years in terms of idiotic behaviour. When jet skis first came out it was just ridiculous out there. You will never get rid off all the bad ones.

 

Improving their equipment by mandating snows - which are superior equipment below 7C - makes a change, and improves the saftey of driving in winter conditions. Not to mention reducing gridlock and all the frustrations and economic impact caused by it.