Limits on pan fish and limiting out

[Acountdeleted]

I'm going to open up a can of worms here. I'm already regretting this post. But let's try and be civil, discuss the point, not target anyone or any group and try to stick to the facts. I honestly would like to have a true debate about this. (Art, please keep your finger on the lock button. I'll also delete the thread if it gets out of hand)

 

Deep breath:

 

How does everyone feel about the large limits on Pan fish and people keeping their limit?

 

I'll be honest, I love taking half a dozen to 12 perch, bluegills, crappie for a couple of meals. I prefer the taste and (hopefully) sustainability more so then Walleye, pike or other sport fish.

 

But then I see photos on Instagram or on Facebook of people with the posts '4 of us kept our limit of bluegills. Now to fillet them' where there is someone on the ice with a pile of 200 fish. This is well within their right and they aren't breaking any laws, but it gives me a bit of an uneasy feeling.

 

Now, that being said, I've talked with people as well that I trust and really like who will say they will go out once, keep their panfish limit and then not keep another fish the entire season. That seems reasonable to me. But for others what would stop them from keeping 200 fish a day? I know the legislation has a possession limit but, if the fish are at home in the deep freeze, how will anyone know?

 

Again, let's keep it civil please but I'm really curious to see what everyone here thinks.

[mike rousseau]

Instead of cleaning 10 perch every time I wanna eat fish I'll clean 50 and freeze em

 

Then catch and release till I need more

[G.mech]

[AKRISONER]

this could easily go off the rails, especially recently after watching someone get absolutely cooked for even mentioning catch and release practices.

 

IMO the limit could definitely be lower, 50 is kind of insane, is 20 not reasonable? but im praying that the ones that set the limit know what the hell they are doing.

 

What makes a lot of sense to me is the limits in zone 14 for walleye, where a person can take enough fish for a meal today and a meal for the freezer. I.e. 1 fish for your plate that day and one fish for another day.

 

So if its pans, maybe its 20 fish, 10 fish nuggets today and 10 for the freezer? but I am not an expert so I leave the decisions to them. A lot of things in the regulations dont make sense to me at all (the slot limit in zone 14 is completely backwards to conventional wisdom and I have no clue why)

Edited January 13, 2017 by AKRISONER

[grimsbylander]

This is easy. Daily and possession limits are established and enforced by law. If someone is keeping fish and is acting within the laws, it is their personal choice and none of my business. Just like I can choose to release fish without having to answer to anyone. If either one of us were to step outside the rules, then either of us is well within our rights to see it get corrected. If I have an issue with daily or possession limits, I should take it up with the correct level of government or organization (eg. OFAH) NOT the fisherman. I don't have any more right to whine at a fisherman with 50 perch(and I wouldn't, good for them!) than I do a person driving 100kph on the QEW. They're well with their rights.

[Acountdeleted]

I think my two biggest concerns with the limit size is just is the number sustainable? I legitimately don't know the answer to this and although we can speculate I don't think we will really know until the limits change or its two late. I just wish I had a way of knowing, hence why I opened this up to the forum rather then being set in my ways.

 

The second one is that, is setting a possession limit something that is feasible/ enforceable? I could see being able to enforce it at hunt/fish camps and or overnight huts on popular ice fishing locations, but with a limit of 50 pan fish, what would stop someone from going out, catching 50 perch on Simcoe today, driving back to Toronto tonight, add, rinse, repeat for 7 days? Are the limits set with that possibility in mind? (obviously none of us can answer that. I'm just curious about opinion).

 

I would never ever go up to a fisherman in person, on forums or anywhere else and tell them they are wrong or I don't agree with what the are doing when they are well within the laws. This was just simply for debate. (I'm actually hoping someone provides facts stats or evidence that says that anglers keeping 50 panfish a day is sustainable. Would put my mind at ease).

Edited January 13, 2017 by jeremy84

[Terry]

I have no problem with people keeping their limit. I am however glad that they did put a limit on pan fish

 

Many people only get to fish one or 2 times a year. So 50 perch limit is not a lot for a yearly take of perch.

Now the morons that post a limit of fish 5 days in a row. You might well believe they have a freezer full and are breaking the law

[ch312]

 

 

The second one is that, is setting a possession limit something that is feasible/ enforceable? I could see being able to enforce it at hunt/fish camps and or overnight huts on popular ice fishing locations, but with a limit of 50 pan fish, what would stop someone from going out, catching 50 perch on Simcoe today, driving back to Toronto tonight, add, rinse, repeat for 7 days? Are the limits set with that possibility in mind? (obviously none of us can answer that. I'm just curious about opinion).

 

 

 

The only thing that would stop someone from doing that is their conscience.

 

 

There is a daily catch limit of 50 perch for Simcoe with a possession limit of 100. Therefore, there are currently regulations in place to prevent this from happening. But, just like many other fish and game regulations we need people to be honest and abide by the rules as some are practically impossible to enforce.

 

 

Panfish are prolific breeders and are often compared to cockroaches and coyotes...once they're established, good luck wiping them out.

[crappieperchhunter]

There will always be meat hunters with no regards for the resource or the laws and there will always be the hardcore C & R guys who look down on anybody with a stringer of fish. Luckily the vast majority of us fall in the middle of these to extremes.

[Jds63]

This is easy. Daily and possession limits are established and enforced by law. If someone is keeping fish and is acting within the laws, it is their personal choice and none of my business. Just like I can choose to release fish without having to answer to anyone. If either one of us were to step outside the rules, then either of us is well within our rights to see it get corrected. If I have an issue with daily or possession limits, I should take it up with the correct level of government or organization (eg. OFAH) NOT the fisherman. I don't have any more right to whine at a fisherman with 50 perch(and I wouldn't, good for them!) than I do a person driving 100kph on the QEW. They're well with their rights.

Exactly my thoughts as well .

It is MNRF's responsibility to monitor, investigate and implement any required legislation changes if necessary.

[Fisherman]

X3, no point in crying the blues here, call the MNR if you think we're pillaging and plundering.

[jimmer]

This has been a conversation in the kawarthas since the 80's and 90's since those lakes have been targeted for years because of the great bluegill fishing (especially on Rice Lake). Numbers were declining a bit and there was a panfish focus group put together to discuss possible limits at that time. The group consisted of cottage resort owners, an Asian group from the city and a number of other individuals. This group met for some time (sometimes heated) then were told that there would be no limits initiated because there was no biological reason to do so.

We all know that changed a few years back with the new regs putting limits on most panfish.

My biggest concern for the lake I live on is that people don't know the regs or don't give a darn. Yes, the bluegill limit is 300, but anglers are only permitted to keep 30 at 7" or over. I'm just not sure most adhere to this. I see the same boats in the same spots for days on end which scares me. Taking too many of the larger breeders is not good and I believe this is what was happening on Rice Lake way back when.

[Acountdeleted]

X3, no point in crying the blues here, call the MNR if you think we're pillaging and plundering.

The MNRF barely have the resources to conduct studies on catch limits, let alone enforce them. I'm just seeing Broad Scale Fisheries Monitoring reports being released now from data collected in 2009.

 

I don't know if anyone knows if the current fishing practices, on a broad scale are currently sustainable.

[netminder]

I do think the limits are too high, personally. I've seen some smaller lakes get fished out and have basically no panfish population for 5 years or so until it can re-establish itself. And the cycle continues.

[EC1]

I just wrote an essay to the MNR about our crappie limit.

 

What really needs to be brought to light is that our population in Ontario is probably one of the largest in this part of North America and we seem to have some of the most liberal panfish limits. Add a little bit geography, some climate change, and a bunch of miseducated/greedy anglers, and we are heading straight towards a whole lot of lakes with a lot of stunted crappies. Yes, panfish breed like cockroaches, but large panfish that most anglers like to catch are definitely not a renewable resource.

 

Of course, the first boom of crappies in a new lake will dominate a lake. Many of the Ontario lakes will go into cycles in the future. My prediction is that good fishing for panfish will start moving further and further away from the GTA with our current panfish regs.

Edited January 13, 2017 by EasyFish

[Acountdeleted]

I just wrote an essay to the MNR about our crappie limit.

 

What really needs to be brought to light is that our population in Ontario is probably one of the largest in this part of North America and we seem to have some of the most liberal panfish limits. Add a little bit geography, some climate change, and a bunch of miseducated/greedy anglers, and we are heading straight towards a whole lot of lakes with a lot of stunted crappies. Yes, panfish breed like cockroaches, but large panfish that most anglers like to catch are definitely not a renewable resource.

 

Of course, the first boom of crappies in a new lake will dominate a lake. Many of the Ontario lakes will go into cycles in the future. My prediction is that good fishing for panfish will start moving further and further away from the GTA with our current panfish regs.

 

Could you send me a PM? I'd love to read the essay that you wrote.

[LeXXington]

Think the issues is more a social issue rather than an enforcement issue.

 

People taking full limit in 1 day, once a year any different than people getting there limit over the fishing season?

[OhioFisherman]

My dad was a child of the great depression years, he had 6 brothers and 7 sisters and his father died when he was 13, so him and a few other siblings had to quit school and help support the family. In that era it was hard enough for an adult to find a job, let alone a kid of school age?

 

He grew up a couple of miles away from Lake Erie and catching fish was a large part of him helping to provide food for the family, that seemed to stick with him all his life. I have 3 brothers, the year of our 5 birthday it was the ritual for us to go spring crappie fishing with dad, or first over nighter fishing with dad. None of us ever made it two days, we ran out of room to store fish. 5 - 5 gallon buckets, buckets and coolers full of crappie on ice.

 

For a 3-4 week span in the spring dad and anyone and everyone he had taken fishing to his spots seem to be there at least one day on the weekends. Ohio had no limits at the time, but the size of a " keeper " seemed to get smaller as the years went by.

 

We didn't have limits or regulation on walleye fishing either, I had to go to Ontario to catch my first walleye because they were few and far between here in the late 50's and 60's.

 

I remember seeing lots of people with stringers full of smallish bass before Ohio started closed seasons and possession limits, bass fishing here has gotten better since.

 

Personally? I never really had the incentive to keep many fish, for me it wasn't the reason I enjoyed fishing.

[Tjames09]

this could easily go off the rails, especially recently after watching someone get absolutely cooked for even mentioning catch and release practices.

 

 

I think I remember that thread

[Old Ironmaker]

No way I'm cleaning 100 Perch. Hers and mine. There are days you can spend an entire day and many dollars on bait because you are hauling them in 2 at a time and they are averaging 12". If you think it is a conservation issue go down to the marina in Dover and watch them use a shovel to get the perch off loaded. You will never feel guilty about keeping a limit again.

[pics]

No way I'm cleaning 100 Perch. Hers and mine. There are days you can spend an entire day and many dollars on bait because you are hauling them in 2 at a time and they are averaging 12". If you think it is a conservation issue go down to the marina in Dover and watch them use a shovel to get the perch off loaded. You will never feel guilty about keeping a limit again.

Depends on the lake.. Valens conservation area used to have great panfish fishing but so many limits were taken that the population crashed.. It has since recovered but only after a strict catch and release policy was enacted..

[dave524]

Most of my life there was no limit on panfish and perch, though I recall there was always a 50 limit on perch on Lake Mendemoya on Manitoulin even in the sixties. I can see putting a limit on pressured inland lakes but to have a perch limit on Erie when fishing in sight of commercial net markers is sort of rubbing salt in a wound. You all forget there is a kill factor to catch and release, an optimist may put it around 10% and a pessimist maybe 20%, anyone that fishes hard on a long weekend and catches and released several times his limit each day has probably killed more fish than the dude who put the first 5 keepers on his stringer.

 

edit: sorry I am primarily a salmon / trout guy so I said 5, guess bass and pickerel are 6 but you get my drift.

Edited January 14, 2017 by dave524

[outllaw]

one fact to look at. in the great lakes where commercial netting is allowed. commercial netters receive 99.06 per-cent of harvested quota. .. sportfishing is allowed 0.04 per-cent angling rod/reel..keeping 6 walleye or 50 perch,is factored into mnr biologist studies...a brief note. sportsfishing has never achieve.d the 0.04 per-cent harvest..

[Joeytier]

MYou all forget there is a kill factor to catch and release, an optimist may put it around 10% and a pessimist maybe 20%, anyone that fishes hard on a long weekend and catches and released several times his limit each day has probably killed more fish than the dude who put the first 5 keepers on his stringer.

This is important. I have buddies that are 100% c and r for brookies but handle them like ragdolls, no doubt killing a great deal of them, and then give guys a hard time for keeping a few fish. Idiots.

 

More on topic, the only thing I really have to contribute regarding panfish is that people should be considering releasing the big fish and focusing on keeping a limit of the smallest size of fish worth cleaning, this should help with the stunted population thing.

[G.mech]

one fact to look at. in the great lakes where commercial netting is allowed. commercial netters receive 99.06 per-cent of harvested quota. .. sportfishing is allowed 0.04 per-cent angling rod/reel..keeping 6 walleye or 50 perch,is factored into mnr biologist studies...a brief note. sportsfishing has never achieve.d the 0.04 per-cent harvest..

 

I'm not sure where the 99.06% number comes from, I know in Lake Erie the sportsfishing typically accounts for around 20% of the annual harvest of perch and about 50% of the walleye. I don't have last year's numbers handy but this summarizes the 2015 numbers which are pretty typical. The combined harvest numbers are normally around 75% of the TAC (total allowable catch) set out each year by the Lake Erie Commission. I'm sure the few other lakes that still have commercial netting would have similar number splits.

 

http://derby.hcslions.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/FactSheet-2015.pdf

Edited January 14, 2017 by G.mech