Is the future electric?

[Terry]

And until they spent a fortune on Infrastructure, they were useless for the masses

[CrowMan]

We're at the same inflection point...fortunes need to be invested. Just like then...it will be money well spent. That spending on roads still serves us today. 

Build it and they will come...in 1908 Henry churned out the first Model T. Within in 20 years he spit out 15 million of them...a staggering number by today's standards. 

I'm an old fart myself, but I recognize it's time to either get on board or get out of the way.

 

[BassMan11]

3 hours ago, AKRISONER said:

That somewhat seems to be a bit of a “make it look bad just to make it look bad” take.

I’ve heard it can be bad with loads near the vehicles maximum towing capacity…but that’s the same for a gasser.

I’ve heard that realistically speed is what kills their towing capacity, so basically If you drive at normal highway speed and don’t speed with a normal boat there’s what you’d consider to be a normal decline in range.

once again, newer battery tech is on the immediate horizon, extending range. People seem to be really worked up about this like they forgot about how bad their fuel mileage was in their 98 dodge ram or chevy. Those trucks were getting 400km while towing on a 100 litre tank lol.

There are several video of people towing trailers with Tesla's and Rivians..... range is depleted to around 50% (in nice weather).  So unless you towing from the GTA to Simcoe its not realistic. No one cared about fuel mileage when gas was 50 cents a liter in 1998. That is 800km for $100. 

I think there is a time and place for full electric vehicles. Heck I even want one. But to totally replace gasoline? I don't see it.. nor do I think its a great idea. We aren't talking about a major technology change... we aren't going from Horse to Car. We are going from car to car with a different " cleaner fuel".

Average starting cost of a new electric vehicle in the Canada is about 100K. Thats not affordable for most people. And the cost won't be going down anytime soon. On-top of that... if we all went out an ordered one today... we might get it by 2026

Edited January 18, 2023 by BassMan11

[BITEME]

Ooh, on I burn
Fuel is pumping engines
Burning hard, loose, and clean
And I burn, churning my direction
Quench my thirst with gasoline
So give me fuel, give me fire, give me that which I desire
 

to hell with the energizer bunny🤘

Biteme

 

 

[CrowMan]

These changes will come sooner than you think...and just like the Model T, mass production will lower prices dramatically. Just think about all the components (and machining) that go in to an internal combustion engine vs. an electric motor. 

I'm a big believer in technology and the capacity of the human mind to innovate solutions. We are the only animal that makes tools, and we have become very good at it. The total volume of human knowledge doubles every year.

Since the late 1980's, I have invested almost exclusively in tech stocks. Yes, there have been winners and losers...up and downs...bubbles bursting. But overall that strategy has served me very well.

Quick example...if you invested $5000 in Exxon Mobil (for a long time the largest capitalized corporation on the planet) back in 1986, your investment would now be worth $520,000. Not bad...eh ?

If in the same year, if you had invested  $5000 in Microsoft, today the value would be $10.5 million.

Unfortunately, in this country (and frankly around the globe) there's a lot of political pressure to support sunset industries like the oil sands...in my opinion that's money not well spent.

Yes, gasoline will never go away completely for some applications, and we still need oil to manufacture plastics...but there is more than enough " clean" oil around to satisfy those needs.

BTW...average starting cost of an EV is $100k ??? You can buy a Hyundai Ioniq 5 for $48k and get $5K back in gov't rebates. My brother bought one last summer...fantastic vehicle, with great range, quick charge capability and super acceleration...and yes, you have to charge it every 400km, but you have to gas up with a ICE vehicle too. In fact, in some ways it's less time out of your day...you can charge at home rather stopping at the gas station. 

 

 

[Dara]

It all comes down to the government we choose to elect based on their promises and policy.

I remember back around 2000 that emission standards for snowmobiles were introduced.

Manufacturers were warned and developed cleaner machines. Hence the 4 stroke and super clean 2 strokes.

Government can only require what is possible though and they are pushing and waiting for electric.

On the same note, when they offered a good 4 stroke snowmobile I bought one. It saved me a bunch of money on oil and fuel and performed.

[DanD]

Yes we all kind of know the evils of fossil fuels; but what are the evils of electric? I mean what waste byproducts are/will be produced, so that we can plug our vehicle into a charger and be on our way again? Not sure if I'm using the proper wording to make my point; but if anyone tells me that an electric vehicle is 100% or even 50% green I call crap. We all need to look at everything from the first transistor to the last bolt that goes into building these vehicles? Then what is it going to take to build up the infrastructure to run these vehicles. As in generating enough electricity so that Mom and Pop don't miss a rerun of Jeopardy due to a black out. Thousands of miles worth of cabling, tones of solder (Lead) to build all the required electronic components; green my ass.

I could go on and on; but I'll go with the flow and see where all this takes us?

I believe better money would be spent on developing a better Internal combustion engine for the interim until an alternate power source is found that will be considered "greener". I cannot find the link to the video I watched but it was of a highspeed (RPM) engine That could run on anything from fuel oil to hydrogen. Highspeed as in 20,000 plus rpm and only two friction points as in the roller bearings at either end of the crankshaft. Through gearing that rpm can be converted into horsepower. A piston engine is something like 20-25% efficient in extracting the power from it's fuel. This engine is approx. 80-85% efficient. I've looked and looked but I cannot find the link? 

Dan... 

Found a Vid on this engine.

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by DanD

[Dara]

From what I understand a gearbox on a windmill takes 1000 gals of oil which must be changed yearly.

They also cut down about 50 acres of trees for each one they built around here.

[DanD]

1 hour ago, Dara said:

They also cut down about 50 acres of trees for each one they built around here.

I never thought about that before. So yeah lets cut down the trees that makes our oxygen; so that the wind for the turbine is not hindered. Up makes perfect sense to me; cough cough look at all that juice it's providing to bad we can't breath the air? Yup it's green alright!!!

Dan...

[CrowMan]

1 hour ago, Dara said:

From what I understand a gearbox on a windmill takes 1000 gals of oil which must be changed yearly.

They also cut down about 50 acres of trees for each one they built around here.

I hate windmills...they're ugly and for the amount of juice they create I don't think they're worth the disruption to the environment. They ruined the Kingston waterfront.

Ontario Power Workers Union took out a full page ad today in the major papers, calling for the construction of 5 more nuke plants the size of Darlington in the next 27 years. Until fusion is available on a commercial scale...I'm onboard with that..

Also in today's news, I see that Suncor and Cenovus (the major oilsands extractors) want a piece of the $15 billion Canada Growth Fund unveiled in the last federal budget. Imo, this is not wise way to invest the taxpayer's money. About 20 years ago, I spent 6 months in Fort Mac selling equipment. The environmental devastation of trying to extract oil from tar embedded in sand made me literally and figuratively sick. 

BTW...I myself (a single driver among millions) burn close to 2000 gallons of gasoline a year...so the oil for the windmill gearbox is really inconsequential....not that I like windmills...lol

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by CrowMan

[Fisherman]

4 hours ago, DanD said:

I believe better money would be spent on developing a better Internal combustion engine for the interim until an alternate power source is found that will be considered "greener". I cannot find the link to the video I watched but it was of a highspeed (RPM) engine That could run on anything from fuel oil to hydrogen. Highspeed as in 20,000 plus rpm and only two friction points as in the roller bearings at either end of the crankshaft. Through gearing that rpm can be converted into horsepower. A piston engine is something like 20-25% efficient in extracting the power from it's fuel. This engine is approx. 80-85% efficient. I've looked and looked but I cannot find the link? 

Dan... 

Found a Vid on this engine.

 

I found a few more of the same, a double version of it weighing in at 70 lbs can make 320 hp and 340 ft/lbs of torque, far more than enough for the average vehicle.  A single unit at idle could easily run electric drive motors.

[smitty55]

3 hours ago, Dara said:

From what I understand a gearbox on a windmill takes 1000 gals of oil which must be changed yearly.

They also cut down about 50 acres of trees for each one they built around here.

 

[Weeds]

58 minutes ago, smitty55 said:

 

Smitty, I double checked this. Apparently it’s totally inaccurate and the authors words have been selectively quoted (or misquoted) to make windmills look less effective than they actually are.  It’s based on the premise that windmills are placed in poor locations where in reality they’d most likely never be built.

They are ugly though, I’ll give you that.

 

If you look at Homer-Dixon.com the supposed author suggests the poster is fraudulent and that he didn’t write that.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Weeds
More info

[BITEME]

You smell that boy that’s 2stroke 

There ain’t nothing like the smell of 2 stroke in the morning son

 

[Dara]

1 hour ago, BITEME said:

You smell that boy that’s 2stroke 

There ain’t nothing like the smell of 2 stroke in the morning son

 

Except for race fuel.

[Dara]

1 hour ago, Weeds said:

Smitty, I double checked this. Apparently it’s totally inaccurate and the authors words have been selectively quoted (or misquoted) to make windmills look less effective than they actually are.  It’s based on the premise that windmills are placed in poor locations where in reality they’d most likely never be built.

They are ugly though, I’ll give you that.

 

If you look at Homer-Dixon.com the supposed author suggests the poster is fraudulent and that he didn’t write that.

They are a poor choice except for making some people money.

Who was it brought these in?

 

Only to attempt humor, old news

Edited January 20, 2023 by Dara

[CrowMan]

 Besides all the environmental hullabaloo around oil, I do think it's prudent that we in Ontario create and control our own energy sources. That's why building five new nuke plants in this Province and the electrification of our economy should be a priority.

Yes, we are all Canadians...and we should all be caring and sharing. I don't have anything against the hard working people of Alberta...however, their politicians...well, let's just say I'm old enough to remember Klein telling  us..."let those eastern bas**rds  freeze in the dark".

Edited January 21, 2023 by CrowMan

[Fisherman]

Fat Ralph may have had a dislike for easterners, but, he was a good politician.

[AKRISONER]

I’m 100% pro nuclear, but it would be a horrific idea to spend god knows how much money build 5 Darlingtons only to find out that in 30 years time fusion is available and provides unlimited energy for the cost of building the plant.

Re:looking at the total energy costs of electric vs oil, yes of course everything has a footprint nothing will be perfect in that regard, it doesn’t mean you should just stop because it’s not perfect, that’s a pretty flawed logic. It would be like saying we should have never built beyond the Wright brother’s kitty hawk because the thing couldn’t fly super sonic.

”green” is a concept not an identified “standard” the certainty is that electric vehicles even with their dirty mines, and additional copper etc are still cleaner than an oil guzzling carbon emitting gas engine. Here’s a good website that breaks it down even by the electricity generation fuel…the difference between an electric and a icb isn’t even close

 

https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.html

[John Bacon]

16 hours ago, AKRISONER said:

I’m 100% pro nuclear, but it would be a horrific idea to spend god knows how much money build 5 Darlingtons only to find out that in 30 years time fusion is available and provides unlimited energy for the cost of building the plant.

 

What if we wait 30 years and fusion still isn't available?

[AKRISONER]

27 minutes ago, John Bacon said:

What if we wait 30 years and fusion still isn't available?

That’s something you need to leave to engineers and nuclear physicists to figure out and analyze. It’s so far beyond my understanding that I don’t know the answer.

[Headhunter]

If you watch the 60 Minutes expose I posted earlier in the thread, you would have seen that Fusion is still very far away from being useful. There was a big guffuffal about having generated a split second of power in the lab and claiming that the reaction generated more energy then the lasers put in. What was not talked about on the news was how much energy they had to produce, to get enough power to drive the lasers. 300 units to get one unit back. That aint very efficient!

HH

[BITEME]

I’m a big fan of nuclear and also for fusion

i think the game changer is in the computing and right now at this point in time we are at the tip of a brave new world in computational power it dramatically increases daily 

I don’t really believe fusion is that far off and I think nuke for now full size and Smr’s is the way forward

and let’s be honest about this while we on our side of the world are tripping over or selfs to be so cute and green the other side is just beginning to see what we have and that they have a shot at something better and want it they will not be taking their foot of the gas peddle anytime soon

the world is changing and still very lopsided .as an organism on the planet I try to do my bit as a custodian while I’m alive try to be smart and conscious of what I do and what’s around me and will do so until I expire

i don’t give a fig about electric at the moment  we are not ready for it yet there is still a lot that needs to go on in the background to make it all work. at the pace they are currently setting in can see issues coming

Here’s to a bright future!!

sorry had to vent a bit

[DRIFTER_016]

On 1/17/2023 at 5:03 PM, Dara said:

It's almost like they need an engine to run a generator to charge the battery. 

 

I've got one of those on order.

A 2023 F-150 Lariat Hybrid. 😁

430HP and 570#FT torque and gets good mileage when not towing.

[DRIFTER_016]

On 1/20/2023 at 1:55 PM, smitty55 said:

 

Don't forget that the blades can't be recycled and are just buried. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8294057/Hundreds-non-recyclable-fiberglass-wind-turbine-blades-pictured-piling-landfills.html

 

Those wind turbines sure do burn good with their 1,000 gallons of oil and 1,000's of pounds of plastic though.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-humber-62405231

Edited January 23, 2023 by DRIFTER_016