Climate Change -Hysteria? NF

[captpierre]

Not sure what to think of all this. Most experts agree that  human activity is a major driver of climate change. Some say it’s mainly a natural cycle. 

What to do?  Should our society make radical changes in how we do things?  Canada contributes 3% of the world’s greenhouse gasses. 

If we did would it improve things? My concern is for future generations. I’ll be long dead when it hits the fan-  if it does.

I fear my grandkids will say of us baby boomers:

“You polluted the earth, you did nothing to slow climate change and you left us with huge government debts that weren’t there when governments ran balanced budgets.”

I’d be upset too.  

Just sayin. 

[lew]

I think it's great to see so many thousands of  young folks taking such an interest in this.

Edited September 27, 2019 by lew

[jimmer]

It's a tough one, but nice to see people passionate about something.  I think the world is upside down right now. Let's feed and house our homeless first here in Canada.

[AKRISONER]

Lots of talk about how to fix climate change but no talk about the planet being overpopulated.

climate change is a real human driven problem. In order to fix the problem we cannot continue to grow our population exponentially. Any measures taken are pointless if we continue to grow so fast. We have not surprisingly infested and destroyed our own planet. The only way to fix it now is to talk about neutralizing our growth.

[irishfield]

Paid propaganda by many, don't forget we had a "tropical" climate with Dinosaurs and such and then an ice age. That cycle will continue as the earth, moon and sun get a bit drunk and dance out of unison, just like the "stop the drop" nonsense for Georgian Bay. Water is now over Leah's father's beach retaining wall.

[dave524]

16 minutes ago, irishfield said:

Paid propaganda by many, don't forget we had a "tropical" climate with Dinosaurs and such and then an ice age. That cycle will continue as the earth, moon and sun get a bit drunk and dance out of unison, just like the "stop the drop" nonsense for Georgian Bay. Water is now over Leah's father's beach retaining wall.

Exactly, just a few months shy of 70, the 60's and 70's we were concerned about global cooling and the effects on agriculture, then acid rain in the 80's, then fluorocarbons were eating a hole in the ozone layer in the 90's, then after 2000 it was global warming, now they call it a climate change crisis. I can see both glacial deposits and fossils of a much warmer era within a mile of walking out my back door. I've read that over 90% of the species to ever roam the earth are now extinct, we didn't do it to but just a few perhaps. Fool me once, shame on you , fool me twice, shame on me. Remember "  the climate will balance itself  " 

[AKRISONER]

31 minutes ago, dave524 said:

, then acid rain in the 80's, then fluorocarbons were eating a hole in the ozone layer in the 90's, then after 2000 it was global warming, now they call it a climate change crisis. 

....You do realize that acid rain was stopped by placing environmental controls on emissions?

the ozone hole was also fixed by The Montreal Protocol when countries agreed to ban the use of ozone depleting refrigerants.

Climate change is proven by science, trust me, there is far more money to be saved/made by doing nothing and allowing fossil fuels to continue to be burned unchecked and for the population to keep expanding so that more and more people can buy products from corporations in a cycle of never ending growth. 

Your "facts" about the fact that dinosaurs lived on a much hotter planet actually directly correlates to the climate science that you are attempting to debunk that is causing global warming. During the dinosaur times there was extremely high levels of volcanic activity which caused an over running emissions of Co2 which caused a greenhouse effect heating the planet. Furthermore, the reason it was so hot in Drumheller during the time of the dinosaurs? Pangaea hadnt fully split up yet meaning alberta was a lot closer to the equator.

Im not looking to get this thread locked, or start any arguments,  I myself personally dont believe there is anything that we can do except reduce our population if we want to stop global warming.  But I cant sit idle and allow people to say a bunch of blanket scientifically false statements. The planet is heating up, its our fault, its not a "theory" its scientific fact backed by 99% of scientists. Even big oil companies have now admitted that it is happening. What to actually do about it is what is open for debate.

As outdoorsmen, i think its somewhat of a shame for us to not actively give a damn about the environement. Forget global warming, Im talking about all things to protect mother nature, pollution reduction, re-using and recycling. All of these things are important if we want to have a healthy planet for our kids, grandkids, and their families to live on.

Im glad to see we are making very significant progress, recycling is second nature to most people these days, programs to recycle the oil, tires and other automotive fluids are the rule not the exception now. Our cars and boats are progressively becoming more fuel efficient and emitting less. Most non idiots know that we shouldnt throw garbage in the forest/lake/ditch or burn it as was standard practice back in the 70's. At least people are clued into the fact that the planet is a finite resource, we can all do our part to try and keep her clean and healthy.

Edited September 27, 2019 by AKRISONER

[knightfisher]

I tend to agree with George.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=george+carlin+on+climate+change&view=detail&mid=F64D91E241183B86F626F64D91E241183B86F626&FORM=VIRE

[dave524]

Not disputing the fact that it is getting warmer, just the fact that man probably has very little effect on what has been going on for millenniums and we are nearly powerless to stop it, but yes we need to stop being slobs. Actually the garbage throwing is worse today than back in the seventies and before.  Maybe we should go back to all returnable bottles and ban fast food.............edit at least take out

Edited September 27, 2019 by dave524

[bigcreekdad]

China, India, and the African continent have no intention of making any meaningful changes, yet they are the worst offenders. When they start making real changes, I'll listen. Til then....nope.

I do agree on the population situation.

 

[wkrp]

3 hours ago, lew said:

I think it's great to see so many thousands of  young folks taking such an interest in this.

X 10 Lew.

[AKRISONER]

16 minutes ago, dave524 said:

 Actually the garbage throwing is worse today than back in the seventies and before.  Maybe we should go back to all returnable bottles and ban fast food.............edit at least take out

it used to be 100% acceptable to literally pick a spot, wherever that spot was and just throw your garbage, oil, whatever chemicals etc etc you had right there. You swap the tires on your truck? Burn em.

Heck, go for a walk in the forest behind my cottage you will literally find "the dump" where everyone that lived on my cottages road threw their trash. that said trash is still there 40-50 years later polluting the forest.

I work in the automotive recycling industry and my mom told me the change in mentality is wild, when she grew up there was literally a "spot" in town where everyone drove their cars out on a rock cliff and did their oil changes. The spot was good because the oil just poured out and then down off of the cliff. Heck im sure you can remember the 90's? When we just dumped our used oil on a gravel road so that it kept the dust down? No one thought about the fact that when it rained all of that oil just dumped right into our lake?

Lake Ontario in the 80's? Care to go for a swim?

Like most things that humans do, we think its a great idea and then we realize "holy crap were gonna kill ourselves if we dont stop" and then some action is taken. Carlin references plastic bags like its a joke...plastic bags have only existed for less than 100 years but there is a pile of them now floating in the ocean the size of texas. 

Sitting back and saying "meh I dont care to do nothing, the planet will be fine with our human garbage and slobbery" is a terrible mentality.

Edited September 27, 2019 by AKRISONER

[wkrp]

To follow up I think its more important " what song are you listening too" 

[Old Ironmaker]

You don't need to be scientist to know we have really done a number on this Earth of ours. Millions of people just this past week protested all across the globe to bring attention to the huge cluster jam we are leaving our future generations. We/I dumped all sorts of chemicals into the sewers in the plant and massive amounts of CO2 into the air up to the mid 90's when things changed concerning the environment. Google Randal Reef. A small area in Hamilton bay that at one time was the most toxic water in North America. That is exactly where a major portion of all the plant cooling water was dumped into the bay or onto the ground. We are talking several thousands of gallons a minute. The West side open cut it was called. Today 100% of plant water is recirculated, if 1 litre of water is dumped into the bay or onto the ground we must notify the M.O.E. immediately. If something is sent to the air that has a opacity greater than 30% (may have changed today) again the MOE must be notified. They are a serious group of investigators. Most are retired investigators from the RCMP and OPP. Before I retired I had to pay a few fines they wrote up out of my own pocket. Just this week I read that 95% of all available land on Earth is used for farming We simply have too many people to feed. Those lands once had trees on them that produce all of the air we breath. It's a mess. We can all do our part for example something as simple as when sitting in line at a drive through shut off the vehicle, saves fuel and the air. It's actually a law in Ontario that I have never seen enforced. I sat in line at Timmy's and the Cop in front of me didn't shut off her car, just the other day. Citizens arrest time?

Edited September 27, 2019 by Old Ironmaker

[bigbuck]

Yes, the Earth will still be here after we are long gone. Our goal as a society should be to leave it a better place when we pass on. The hype with the young girl from Sweden.... I don't buy into. A little too scripted. That said, more needs to be done. Lots of junk all over the world, heck, they treat MT Everest as a dumping ground, so much so that Sherpas go up once a year to drag some garbage down. 

[ketchenany]

We are harming this planet with pollution, plastic and chemicals . . .

hiking taxes to stop this is probably not the solution. Where does the money go?  we will still have to throw out garbage run our necessities until we can find something else. Plastic and CO2 is looking to be the major pollutant.

We here can do our part but other nations as mentioned will not change and we send millions to aid them pollute even more.

I have recycled since 1979, very conscious  on what goes in the trash. I look after it. If every nation did their part we could solve this or come close.

All of us are on this planet for a very short time 80-90 years, why do we need wars and spend billions on billions of defence? WE can’t take it with us. When bombs are thrown into the sea what happens to ocean life?

I probably have 20 years and hope they solve this problem for out children.

Greed is a major cause. As I stated you can’t take it with you. 

My grade five teacher always said all you need is 6 feet!

I do drive a small vehicle and make note that it only goes out 6 days a week, NO more. I want to be down to five or  less soon.

 

 

 

[AKRISONER]

climate change deniers remind me of this guy

 

[woodenboater]

Some of what I've been reading or heard, is that things won't creep up on us incrementally. There will be a point where everything cascades, like a cart rolling down a hill, with no way to stop it. Around that point, conditions are supposed to be such that it will be extremely difficult to maintain life on this planet. Life being us two legged creatures.

[ketchenany]

2 minutes ago, woodenboater said:

Some of what I've been reading or heard, is that things won't creep up on us incrementally. There will be a point where everything cascades, like a cart rolling down a hill, with no way to stop it. Around that point, conditions are supposed to be such that it will be extremely difficult to maintain life on this planet. Life being us two legged creatures.

like  I said, we can’t take it with us. What is the point! 

last night I was watching a program called “what food made America” history channel.

kellog’s corn flakes was the king, came between two brothers who eventually hated each other and won lost in court. Then came Post, as in cereal went at Kellog and did well only to have health problems and blew his head off. Mars was another, “Milky way” conflict between him and Hershey and his son! Want to see the end of this one. Frozen food was developed by an American made Birdseye And lived in Labrador in the Bush and learned how to freeze fish from the Innuit. 

We are only here for a short time! Let’s enjoy it.

 

ut

They have all gone!

[DRIFTER_016]

The entire population of Canada could suddenly disappear, all the plants and pollution would stop.

And it would not make a lick of difference on a global scale.

The CO2 that Canadians produce are sucked up by all of the trees in our country.

In fact we have enough trees to counter 10 times the amount of CO2 we put into the atmosphere.

Until countries like China, the US, India clean up their act it will not get any better.

California has more people than the whole of Canada for crying out loud.

It is also not up to us to pay for other countries sins.

[Terry]

 

[dave524]

1 hour ago, AKRISONER said:

it used to be 100% acceptable to literally pick a spot, wherever that spot was and just throw your garbage, oil, whatever chemicals etc etc you had right there. You swap the tires on your truck? Burn em.

Heck, go for a walk in the forest behind my cottage you will literally find "the dump" where everyone that lived on my cottages road threw their trash. that said trash is still there 40-50 years later polluting the forest.

I work in the automotive recycling industry and my mom told me the change in mentality is wild, when she grew up there was literally a "spot" in town where everyone drove their cars out on a rock cliff and did their oil changes. The spot was good because the oil just poured out and then down off of the cliff. Heck im sure you can remember the 90's? When we just dumped our used oil on a gravel road so that it kept the dust down? No one thought about the fact that when it rained all of that oil just dumped right into our lake?

Lake Ontario in the 80's? Care to go for a swim?

Like most things that humans do, we think its a great idea and then we realize "holy crap were gonna kill ourselves if we dont stop" and then some action is taken. Carlin references plastic bags like its a joke...plastic bags have only existed for less than 100 years but there is a pile of them now floating in the ocean the size of texas. 

Sitting back and saying "meh I dont care to do nothing, the planet will be fine with our human garbage and slobbery" is a terrible mentality.

Actually I've lived a few houses off Lake Ontario since the early 80's and swam in Erie as a kid in the late 50's, both lakes were in better shape in the 80's than late 60's early 70's , especially Erie. Biggest difference I've seen since the 80's is water clarity, thankyou Zebra Mussels. They oiled the strip of gravel in front of my 3 room elementary school in the 50's, by the 90's I am sure it was calcium chloride for dust control but flip a coin on which is worse. Yeah we burned our garbage in the country 50/60's, but I bet you can't find a burned can today( actually they recommended back country campers burn cans and bury them years ago) as they disintegrate quickly after being burnt unlike today's aluminum cans and pop came in glass returnables like beer, no empty water bottles or Timmies cups either littering everywhere.  That oil change spot was probably a local thing. Way less than 100 years for plastic bags, paper ruled before about 1980. Somewhere between my generation and yours, people turned into slobs.

[jjcanoe]

6 hours ago, lew said:

I think it's great to see so many thousands of  young folks taking such an interest in this.

I do as well however 99% (just a guess not a hard fact) of the people marching today have never or will never, plant a tree, recycle 100% of their recyclables, go out of their way to source and use 100% green products, exclusively use green transportation, eat a burger (cattle farming is a major source of greenhouse gasses), clean up other people's trash in a park (or a fishing spot lol), use any type of plastic product, etc. etc.

Let's hope these marches will lead not to awareness of the issues, since we are already well aware of the problems but action on the protesters part. A one day march and "I've done my part" is not whats needed, but is most likely and sadly all that will come about from this.

 

 

[OhioFisherman]

We only have one planet to live on currently, and the prospects of that changing anytime soon are slim, it seems better to error on the side of caution? You know who will suffer the most from a change? Not the treasure seekers that provoked it?

[DRIFTER_016]

To all the school kids going on 'strike' for Climate Change:
You are the first generation who have required air-conditioning in every classroom.
You want TV in every room. Your classes are all computerized.
You spend all day and night on electronic devices.
More than ever, you don't walk or ride bikes to school but arrive in caravans of private cars that choke local roads and worsen rush hour traffic.
You are the biggest consumers of manufactured goods ever and update perfectly good expensive luxury items to stay trendy.
Your entertainment comes from electric devices.
Furthermore, the people driving your protests are the same people who insist on artificially inflating the population growth through immigration, which increases the need for energy, manufacturing and transport.
The more people we have, the more forest and bushland we clear and more of the environment is destroyed.
How about this...
Tell your teachers to switch off the air-conditioning.
Walk or ride to school. Switch off your devices and read a book.
Make a sandwich instead of buying manufactured fast food.
None of this will happen because you are selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little 'princesses', inspired by the adults around you who crave a feeling of having a 'noble cause' while they indulge themselves in Western luxury and unprecedented quality of life.
Wake up, grow up, and learn to research facts and think for yourself and not blindly accept the words and thoughts of others.
I don't think you formulated this action plan all by your self, in fact, I suspect you may have had some influence and 'guidance' from those you trust...

A word of warning:
Be cautious of the influence of the 'left' because there may be a time in the future that you will be the ones left out.

Edited September 27, 2019 by DRIFTER_016