An open letter to Justin

[Dutch01]

Dutch the only way your way of life will be possible is the collapse of society. Then you will have the right to do anything you want. The down side is so does everyone else. You smoke your weed and I get to shoot you because I want to exercise my right of not having weed smoked around me. The argument you propose is just not possible so to argue it is to go to hypothetical situations that have no relevants in living here and now. I have had lots of people as you call losers who are just people who are down on there luck and with a helping hand they climb back up into society. The ones that turn to drugs, alcohol, or other life numbing items will stay down in the hole. Making a drug easier and glorifying it just as we did to alcohol and tobacco will damage society. Make it a pharmaceutical regulate it, tax it and limit its availability to those that need it is fine. Your quest to educate and change attitudes is refreshing but the place you wish to lead them does not exist at this time.

Wow, where to begin with this one (I intend no offense if it seems like I'm singling you out here)....

 

Dutch the only way your way of life will be possible is the collapse of society. Then you will have the right to do anything you want. The down side is so does everyone else. You smoke your weed and I get to shoot you because I want to exercise my right of not having weed smoked around me.

This is......I'm not even sure how to respond to this. I have advocated for a society that a. allows responsible adults freedom of choice, where that choice does not infringe on the rights of others and b. holds individual adults responsible for their decisions - as opposed to holding us collectively to the lowest standard of the least responsible among us. I'm not sure how you make the leap from that to a wild west anarchy with shootouts to solve disagreements. Maybe I'm missing something here.... Having said that, the status quo requires me to deal with criminals in order to obtain my marijuana, so it's much more likely I will be shot now under a prohibitionist regime, than under the society I envision and advocate for.

 

 

The argument you propose is just not possible so to argue it is to go to hypothetical situations that have no relevants in living here and now. .

 

What I propose is not only possible, but the minimum standard that we should all aspire to.

 

I have had lots of people as you call losers who are just people who are down on there luck and with a helping hand they climb back up into society. The ones that turn to drugs, alcohol, or other life numbing items will stay down in the hole. Making a drug easier and glorifying it just as we did to alcohol and tobacco will damage society.

I called them losers because it was expedient, which does not make it right. I am a Child and Youth Worker by training (though I do not work in that field any longer). I have education and experience in developmental psychology and addictions counselling, so I believe I am qualified to speak on this subject. I didn't intend to disparage people who are down on their luck, and to anyone offended I apologize unreservedly. I was illustrating the point that if marijuana didn't exist, it is likely these people would be in the exact same life situation, only with a different drug of choice. In any case, because the adults in this example act irresponsibly, why should I be included in a collective sanction? Can you please quantify and qualify the manner and degree to which you believe legalization will "damage society"? I'm looking for arguments with citations here, not anecdotes.

 

Make it a pharmaceutical regulate it, tax it and limit its availability to those that need it is fine.

Who best to determine need? Drug companies with profits to earn? No thank you. I am the best person to make decisions in my life that affect no one else.

 

Your quest to educate and change attitudes is refreshing but the place you wish to lead them does not exist at this time.

Thank you, I appreciate that (sincerely). If this place doesn't exist then I guess I will have to redouble my efforts to make it so! I am still struggling to understand why anyone believes they have the right to make my choices for me. I can argue relative harm all day (and cite sources too), and I can at least understand where people are coming from. But as soon as I move past relative harm to individual liberty (the more relevant argument in my mind), I'm suddenly trying to foment revolution and anarchy ?!?!? How many of you on this site like being told what to do and how to live? I'm guessing none. If I was a vegetarian and attempting to force the government to ban hunting and meat eating, I would be roundly vilified (and rightly so). I am not asking anyone to change their life in any way - I don't want anyone to take up smoking, I'm not asking to smoke in front of children at a park, I'm not even asking people to like weed. I am asking them to let me make my own choices, lest I get the idea I can start making theirs for them (t!t for tat!).

Edited October 29, 2015 by Dutch01

[Canuck]

Yes,but he brought it together to bring himself down through his actions

He did it with his leadership style not his actions. I don't get voters. Ontario voted in a liberal premier with enormous clear evidence of lies and wasted tax payer dollars. And now a liberal federal government with Wynne as his best provincial buddy.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Canuck

[Sterling]

doubt that all you like. That'd be your loss sadly.

 

It's not even a debate. Pot is sometimes used as a painkiller, is it better than ALL pharmaceutical painkillers?

[Dutch01]

 

It's not even a debate. Pot is sometimes used as a painkiller, is it better than ALL pharmaceutical painkillers?

 

Define better. More effective than opiate pain killers? Sometimes yes, sometime no. Less addictive than all of them? Yes.

 

I had a friend rupture his spleen in a car crash in the 80's. A month in the hospital on their painkillers turned him into a raging opiate addict. He was a competitive bodybuilder and Judoka. He ended up with AIDS from sharing a needle, and went for a long walk goodbye on the train tracks. Dead at 35. Opiates took him at 19 though, they just took a while to kill him.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Dutch01

[GbayGiant]

 

Seriously doubt that.

 

Marijuana is an alternative treatment that can be used as an effective treatment for select ailments.

I meant by all the side effects, all pharma meds have in comparison.

so sorry.

 

[manitoubass2]

With my education/experience, I could talk all day about big pharma and the "circle" of prescription treatments.

[Canuck]

RE Pot decriminalization:

 

Ok full disclosure. When I was a teenager and in highschool, I smoked as much or more weed as any teenager. But I noticed in grade 11 that most (not all, but most) of my buddies that smoked every day, didn't have the marks to get into University so were dropping down to non-academic courses and were planning on stopping at 12 and getting a job. Most of my friends that only smoked on the weekends were all thinking about what University or college they wanted to go to. I started to realize I had bigger plans than trying to figure out how to buy the next dime bag and ditching math. So I started to hang with the other crowd more. Look back in your own past and your friends or yourself and think about if there is any pattern. I think there is.

 

That said, it makes no sense to have guys like me when I was young, or any of my friends from those days, having a criminal record. So I am OK with decriminalization. BUT. I think their needs to be very tight controls over its use. We have drinking ages for a reason and pot should also have a legal age, and its not 16.

 

One last point, somewhat joking.

 

I think that the pot legislation should divide the pot smokers and the non-pot smokers in our health care system. Maybe a pot leaf symbol on your health card to allow you to buy pot at the outlets or LCBO or something.

 

Then, anyone with the ganja health card can only be seen or have surgery performed by Doctors and nurses that are carrying the same card.

[Dutch01]

I think their needs to be very tight controls over its use. We have drinking ages for a reason and pot should also have a legal age, and its not 16.

 

 

I agree with this. We have done a good job discouraging smoking cigarettes in youth and our rates are at historic lows. Our pot use rate among youth is another story. We have the highest rate in the developed world, despite decades of prohibition. I see no reason we shouldn't try the same tactics with weed where youth are concerned. It might work, it might not. But it can't do worse than prohibition has.

 

I'm a Dad. I would prefer my Son make the choice that you did and focus on his education. When he's 18 it will be his choice. Time will tell.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Dutch01

[irishfield]

LOL Cancuk, and I know more than a handful of those MD's ! So if I chose to partake I'd be good. I'd rather them than some of Jen's that chewed on ice chips all day to hide the uppers that kept them going 18 hours a day.

[Fish Farmer]

10 Milion for a up grade. You're kidding.

A 1 milion dollar place would be enough

And it just started!!!!!

[Dutch01]

10 Milion for a up grade. You're kidding.

A 1 milion dollar place would be enough

And it just started!!!!!

The place is full of asbestos and he has young kids. How about we cut him some slack?

[dave524]

The place is full of asbestos and he has young kids. How about we cut him some slack?

 

He grew up there and he turned out OK

[Dara]

At least its 10 million to get something in the end instead of a billion just to stop it

[Dutch01]

10 Milion for a up grade. You're kidding.

A 1 milion dollar place would be enough

And it just started!!!!!

Also, I don't where you live but a $1M house in my neighborhood is more than likely a knockdown (I rent an apartment in the area, before I get accused of being a 1%'r). We can't entertain visiting heads of state in a shack!

[leaf4]

Lol dunno if you realize the cost of asbestos abatement, but I wouldn't peg that for being a small part of the budget to renovate

[Gerritt]

Also, I don't where you live but a $1M house in my neighborhood is more than likely a knockdown (I rent an apartment in the area, before I get accused of being a 1%'r). We can't entertain visiting heads of state in a shack!

 

A sugar shack..... Might as well give them the Canadian experience!

[tb4me]

For 10 million they should just tear it down and rebuild..Thats insane..As a home renovator I wan in on that bid..wow

[Dutch01]

For 10 million they should just tear it down and rebuild..Thats insane..As a home renovator I wan in on that bid..wow

Good luck getting permits to tear down a historic building...

[netminder]

They also have to fumigate the place to get the smell of cat pee out from all of Mrs. Harper's cats.

[SirCranksalot]

at least, unlike her husband, she didn't leave a bad smell right across the country!!!

[Mister G]

I could never understand why some people are jealous of what others make for a living (the 1%).

 

Instead of being envious of them why not do whatever it takes to raise your own standard of living. It's all a matter of choices in life........some decided to not further their education after high school and smoke dope for a pastime while others looked further into the future and wanted a better life then their parents. I say GOOD FOR THEM.

[Canuck2fan]

10 Milion for a up grade. You're kidding.

A 1 milion dollar place would be enough

And it just started!!!!!

 

Sadly, all PM's for last 40 years have been too afraid to do what needs to be done. If it wasn't a historical building we could rip it down and put up a damn fine replacement for a couple million.... Since it is a historical building all the work has to be done WITHOUT changing the appearance or destroying the heritage. Work on historical buildings is NEVER cheap because the materials aren't readily available at home depot and the workers with the skills to replicate how things used to be done won't work for free.

 

24 Sussex it isn't just a home for the Prime Minister, it is our White House or 10 Downing Street, where Canada's leader is supposed to represent our great country to other world and business leaders. It doesn't leave a good impression to have rain water dripping into the guests soup during a formal dinner.

 

The U.S. went through this in 49 when Truman was forced to move out of the White House and a 55+ million dollar renovation, in today's dollars was done. Here is a link to some images from that project.

 

https://www.google.ca/search?q=truman+white+house+reconstruction&espv=2&biw=1180&bih=510&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CBsQsARqFQoTCKvexrSG6MgCFcEmHgod4g8Jww

[Old Man]

I could never understand why some people are jealous of what others make for a living (the 1%).

 

Instead of being envious of them why not do whatever it takes to raise your own standard of living. It's all a matter of choices in life........some decided to not further their education after high school and smoke dope for a pastime while others looked further into the future and wanted a better life then their parents. I say GOOD FOR THEM.

 

X2

[Dutch01]

I could never understand why some people are jealous of what others make for a living (the 1%).

 

Instead of being envious of them why not do whatever it takes to raise your own standard of living. It's all a matter of choices in life........some decided to not further their education after high school and smoke dope for a pastime while others looked further into the future and wanted a better life then their parents. I say GOOD FOR THEM.

I don't agree. If you worked hard for an education and got a great job, you deserve kudos, but you will never be part of the 1%.

 

Don't kid yourself, the 1% got that way by being part of an insider's club, and/or stepping on people to climb higher. The real 1% would sell your rights, your body, even your life for a dollar if they can get away with it.

 

When hundreds of thousands of Canadian kids are below the poverty line and hungry every day, there is nothing right or just about some rich fat cat sitting on enough money to feed them all.

 

Income inequality is no longer about whether you work hard enough. It's about a system in its advanced stages that's primary systemic function is to extract wealth from more and more people, for the benefit of fewer and fewer people.

[Mister G]

I don't agree. If you worked hard for an education and got a great job, you deserve kudos, but you will never be part of the 1%.

 

Don't kid yourself, the 1% got that way by being part of an insider's club, and/or stepping on people to climb higher. The real 1% would sell your rights, your body, even your life for a dollar if they can get away with it.

 

When hundreds of thousands of Canadian kids are below the poverty line and hungry every day, there is nothing right or just about some rich fat cat sitting on enough money to feed them all.

 

Income inequality is no longer about whether you work hard enough. It's about a system in its advanced stages that's primary systemic function is to extract wealth from more and more people, for the benefit of fewer and fewer people.

 

 

It's this kind of thinking, always blaming others that will hold down most of the population down while others have that twinkle in the eye and the energy to be a better citizen, father, wife or neighbor through hard work.

I will tell you one thing, the poverty population will continue to grow because now we have treated them like a separate community by giving them everything they need and want instead of saying NO work for it. All these different charities are actually harming them more then helping them and now it's out of control. You can't go anywhere without someone asking for another donation. It's sad.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Mister G