NF-Should winter tires be mandatory in Ontario

[DanD]

Mandating snow tires wont work; not unless the mandate comes with some form of minimum tread depth legislation. Most quality winter tires have a starting tread depth of 12/32; once the tread wears down to anything below 3 or 4/32 they are no better then a summer tire, maybe even worse. Like someone else has already said here a few post back; what would be stopping people from running them year round?

I run a garage and when that first snow fall hit us here in November, we were swamped with installing snows. A lot of these tires were likely on there 3rd or 4th season and pretty much worn out; as to be a useful snow tire. Legally people can run the tire until the wear bar indicators begin to touch the road; well actually they can run the tire until it is completely bald? The only time a tire is inspected, is during a safety inspection; after that you can run what you want and believe me there are a lot of banana shin tires on the roads.

 

Dan.

 

[bigbuck]

Here we go again. Every year at the beginning of winter, a heated debate about making snow tires mandatory.

What should be outlawed is summer tires as of Nov 1. Most of the stupidity seen in the mid november snowstorm was people who had not changed over to their snow tires. All season tires are fine IF and ONLY IF they have a relatively aggressive tread pattern to clear snow. High performance all seasons are not much of a compromise. Quebec is not a good comparison because most of the population there lives in a snow belt area. How many times a winter does Montreal get hammered with snow?? Are snow tires worth the extra expense, maybe, maybe not. It could be argued until the cows come home. I do not have snows on my vehicles. If it is really icy or really bad out, I will just stay home and wait it out. A set of snow tires is not going to protect me from the idiots driving like maniacs in their 4x4s and SUVs. Drive according to the conditions and your skills.

Here we go again. Every year at the beginning of winter, a heated debate about making snow tires mandatory. What should be outlawed is summer tires as of Nov 1. Most of the stupidity seen in the mid november snowstorm was people who had not changed over to their snow tires. All season tires are fine IF and ONLY IF they have a relatively aggressive tread pattern to clear snow. High performance all seasons are not much of a compromise. Quebec is not a good comparison because most of the population there lives in a snow belt area. How many times a winter does Montreal get hammered with snow?? Are snow tires worth the extra expense, maybe, maybe not. It could be argued until the cows come home. I do not have snows on my vehicles. If it is really icy or really bad out, I will just stay home and wait it out. A set of snow tires is not going to protect me from the idiots driving like maniacs in their 4x4s and SUVs. Drive according to the conditions and your skills.

Edited December 15, 2014 by bigbuck

[Sinker]

I would like to see an insurance rebate if you use them .

I get a 5% discount.

[Fish Farmer]

I call them False hope tires, learn to drive. Been driving since a kid and learned to slow down when it's slippery

I wonder how many accidents have happened since they brought out those winter tires, great I have winter tires now I can go faster.

It's like I have 4 wheel drive I won't get stuck, BULL!

I have a F150 Crew 4X4 and I'm going out and pay $2000.00 for a set of tires that I only need for a couple days and in five years they must go in the garbage because they are out of date.

Tires have a date that says they should be replaced after 5 years old. My truck is only driven with the boat hooked up, so I'm lucky it may get 5000 miles a year on it. Do all my other driving the the wife's car that may get 5000 a year.

I guess we all couldn't live before winter tires and cel phones. Can't believe I'm 66, I guess I should be dead.

Learn to drive, people are living in the fast lane to much, slow down and live a little longer.

Now I got to get out and get myself a 300 horse power to troll for Walleye, makes sense to me.

And don't forget, have a little respect for the Sheephead , that's a fish.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Fish Farmer

[AKRISONER]

I am saying yes...and not even because of the danger factor but because of the economies of it. I live in Toronto and witnessed the complete sh- show that 20cm caused in the city due to people with crappy tires on their cars. Complete gridlock, that kind of stuff costs the economy a lot.

[Fish Farmer]

While we are on the subject what is the best way to store tires and wheels, vertically or horizontally? One tire guy says on their sides atop one another is OK, the other guy says never do that, store vertically and roll them once a month, yea another chore I won't get around to. I'm cramped for space but 40 bucks to store isn't in the budget. If they do mandate them I'm going to rent a space and make money storing tires.

Johnny you just gave me an idea since our pension may be in trouble.

[Sinker]

I put snows on so I can avoid the rest of the riff raff on the roads. No false sense of security, and I don't drive faster, just more comfortable driving on snowy roads. I live in a snow belt, and I don't mind driving in snow at all....if I have somewhere to go, I go, regardless of weather. Sometimes my road doesn't get cleared for days, and I live on a big hill. No snow tires, and I can't even get in my driveway lol

 

 

I don't think anything should be mandated though. If you don't drive much in the winter, stick with your all seasons.

 

I also shell out the $$ for the best all season tires I can afford as well.....YOUR TIRES ARE THE ONLY THING THAT TOUCHES THE ROAD!!!

 

S.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Sinker

[Sinker]

oooopss........

Edited December 15, 2014 by Sinker

[SirCranksalot]

It's all in your're driving skills.

 

No, it's not a black and white case. It's not 'all' anything. I'm sure driving skills count for a lot but if you are at the bottom of a long slippery hill trying to get up then you'll be glad you had winter(not snow) tires. That's the other factor that seems to be forgotten here. The are called winter tires----their stopping dist in low temps is significantly better than regular tires.

[ch312]

It's all in your're driving skills. I took a Defensive driving course and one time I was driving home from work, in the snow, and someone cut me off. I had two choices, slam on the breaks and hit him or floor it and drive around him, which I learned in the coarse. At first I slammed on the breaks and after realizing that was only going to lead to a collision, I floored it and got around him!!

 

 

I don't think anyone is debating the fact that snow tires do a better job in the snow. My issue here is some people thinking it's going to magically turn bad drivers into good drivers. If you suck at driving, you suck at driving, what tires you have aren't going to make a lick of a difference.

 

 

I call them False hope tires, learn to drive. Been driving since a kid and learned to slow down when it's slippery

I wonder how many accidents have happened since they brought out those winter tires, great I have winter tires now I can go faster.

It's like I have 4 wheel drive I won't get stuck, BULL!

I have a F150 Crew 4X4 and I'm going out and pay $2000.00 for a set of tires that I only need for a couple days and in five years they must go in the garbage because they are out of date.

Tires have a date that says they should be replaced after 5 years old. My truck is only driven with the boat hooked up, so I'm lucky it may get 5000 miles a year on it. Do all my other driving the the wife's car that may get 5000 a year.

I guess we all couldn't live before winter tires and cel phones. Can't believe I'm 66, I guess I should be dead.

Learn to drive, people are living in the fast lane to much, slow down and live a little longer.

Now I got to get out and get myself a 300 horse power to troll for Walleye, makes sense to me.

And don't forget, have a little respect for the Sheephead , that's a fish.

 

 

These people understand that driving properly is by far your best defense against a collision.

 

 

All winter tires do for bad drivers is give them a false sense that they're now magically better drivers. These people will still floor it to get moving, brake on bends, drive too fast, and brake way too late regardless of what tires are on their car and even the best winter tires won't save their butts in all situations.

 

 

Learn how to drive.

[ch312]

 

No, it's not a black and white case. It's not 'all' anything. I'm sure driving skills count for a lot but if you are at the bottom of a long slippery hill trying to get up then you'll be glad you had winter(not snow) tires. That's the other factor that seems to be forgotten here. The are called winter tires----their stopping dist in low temps is significantly better than regular tires.

 

Oddly enough, every winter there is a long and somewhat steep hill in Brantford that people get stuck on after every decent snowfall and I have zero issues going up the hill in my Ram in 2wd with all season tires and no weight in the back. This is where driving skill comes into play.

 

 

With over drive off simply approach the hill at a steady speed and maintain that speed, or even gradually slow as you're climbing, so your tires don't break loose. Do not apply more throttle while climbing to maintain or gain speed, change lanes, or think about touching your brakes and you'll climb the hill no problem. You want to climb the hill with the vehicle shifting as little as possible.

 

Going down? Apply the brakes at the top of the hill and maintain steady pressure to prevent sliding.

 

 

 

As for shorter stopping distances with winter tires, you can have the same effect with all seasons by driving according to conditions (slower), keeping proper space between vehicles, and braking much earlier than you would in the summer.

Edited December 15, 2014 by ch312

[porkpie]

All of that only works if the guy in front of you is doing the same thing, or if your the first one up the hill! Most often you won't be, and will have to try and maneuver safely around those spinning their wheels on the hills. As I said before, I don't think they should be mandatory by any stretch of the imagination. Another guy here said that anyone who says winter tires are no better, and that it's all driving skill have likely never had a set. I'd say he is dead on correct. Winter tires aren't intended to allow you to drive faster, or outside of what conditions warrant. They are there to provide traction with the road. If a driver wants to kid themselves into believing winter tires are just a placebo, thats alright. But they are missing the point of the matter. Winter tires just make safe drivers safer! And they do it very well!

Edited December 15, 2014 by porkpie

[Old Ironmaker]

Johnny you just gave me an idea since our pension may be in trouble.

I'm serious. A compressor and a jack and WE are in business swapping out wheels too. I'll be in the office writing job safety procedures and doing the ISO stuff, be careful lift with your legs.

[Freshtrax]

Lol I take backroads to get from kitchener to Alliston every weekend in the winter to avoid the idiots on the 400 series.

[bare foot wader]

in BC you need a winter rated tire on mountain roads, often have tire checks on certain highways.....do studs actually tear up roadways? I think that's a myth, pavement seems fine out here...I've ran dedicated winter studs and currently back to duratracs on my trucks, they do help a lot

 

I wouldn't agree with mandatory winter tires in ON, but insurance discounts and other incentives would help more people put them on....I think if you're in an accident and found to have bad tires (summer or winter) it should be extra demerit points/increased fine

[John Bacon]

 

But what about the days when the roads aren't dry John ??

 

Just be on any road when there's a decent snowfall and cars are slipping & sliding all over the place and can't get up even smallish hills and they've got fuming drivers lined up behind them.

 

As I said earlier, there's absolutely NOTHING worse than being fully equipped for winter driving but you can't go anywhere because of all the drivers that say they don't need winter tires.

 

On those days it will definitely be better to have winter tires.

 

But it is not practical to change the tires on a day by day basis. I am not convinced that it makes sense legislate the tires that may only beneficial for two or three days in the winter.

 

There will still be people who struggle to drive even with winter tires. And it only takes one person to mess things up. There will still be issues driving on snow days even if winter tires are required.

[Raf]

i think you people south of 7 live in a different winter wonderland than those north of. last winter, i did not see the blacktop on my road between dec and march and i'm just slightly north of 9. we had several closures so to suggest there are only 2 or 3 days where snows are beneficial is a little short sighted IMO.

 

which is why i suggested that for those south of 7 (or whatever snow boundary the mto can figure on) winter tires be optional (but recommended). yes, idiots will be idiots, snow tires or not and those south of 7ers who venture north will still get stuck but i'll take the improved odds. i agree, for someone who does all their driving in toronto, there's definately less need for someone to slap on snows and to legislate it may be a bit much.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Raf

[Old Ironmaker]

A conundrum that is an issue in my mind. We are planning to drive south in January in my wife's car. What do I do with the winter tires once I get to Georgia? I had a pair of Blizzaks on a car years ago I and didn't know to switch to the summer tires I didn't have. Those tires shredded badly after a few weeks in May, lucky I wasn't doing 120KPH on the highway. Do the new winter tires break down on hot roads now as well? I don't see people driving with 4 spare wheels and tires to get down south and back and stopping and changing them when driving conditions change. For anyone that has made that trip you know that in 24 hours conditions can go from ice and snow to road temps over 100F.

 

As for snow conditions being different north of 7 and south of the near north, take a nice ride along the Erie lakeshore when drifts are higher than the vehicle even when it hasn't snowed for weeks. The wind here is what kills us.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Old Ironmaker

[DanD]

Back in the 70's before there ever was such a thing as an all-season tire; let alone radials (radials were just only beginning to coming out); just about everyone had snow tires. I was an apprentice mechanic then and guess what job I had; go change the tires go change the tires. LOL Then when the radial all-season came out (mid 70's) we were all told, (by the tire manufacturers) there's no need for a snow tire; run these all year round. Now 40 some odd years later we need snow/winter tires again?

Yes winter tires do make a difference in traction, there's no doubt about it; but do we really need them here in SW Ontario, I don't know? The one thing that is for sure; it has been a great marketing scheme, by the tire manufacturers too get people on board with buying them.

I sold close to $20 grand worth of snows/winter tires in the month of November; so I say yea bring it on. LOL

If they do bring in mandatory winter tire; the people who can't or don't want to afford two sets; will buy the cheapest tire that has the snowflake rating and run them all year. After the first season these snows won't be worth crap for the next winter; but they'll be legal.

 

Dan.

[John Bacon]

so to suggest there are only 2 or 3 days where snows are beneficial is a little short sighted IMO.

 

 

Just to be clear. I was not referring to the entire province; just specific regions.

[davey buoy]

 

Oddly enough, every winter there is a long and somewhat steep hill in Brantford that people get stuck on after every decent snowfall and I have zero issues going up the hill in my Ram in 2wd with all season tires and no weight in the back. This is where driving skill comes into play.

 

 

With over drive off simply approach the hill at a steady speed and maintain that speed, or even gradually slow as you're climbing, so your tires don't break loose. Do not apply more throttle while climbing to maintain or gain speed, change lanes, or think about touching your brakes and you'll climb the hill no problem. You want to climb the hill with the vehicle shifting as little as possible.

 

Going down? Apply the brakes at the top of the hill and maintain steady pressure to prevent sliding.

 

 

 

As for shorter stopping distances with winter tires, you can have the same effect with all seasons by driving according to conditions (slower), keeping proper space between vehicles, and braking much earlier than you would in the summer.

Now there is a argument for all wheel drive or 4x4.I just make sure I get around people and no need of not making it up the hill.Snow tires or not,all wheel and 4x4 are far more superior IMO.

[BillM]

A conundrum that is an issue in my mind. We are planning to drive south in January in my wife's car. What do I do with the winter tires once I get to Georgia? I had a pair of Blizzaks on a car years ago I and didn't know to switch to the summer tires I didn't have. Those tires shredded badly after a few weeks in May, lucky I wasn't doing 120KPH on the highway. Do the new winter tires break down on hot roads now as well? I don't see people driving with 4 spare wheels and tires to get down south and back and stopping and changing them when driving conditions change. For anyone that has made that trip you know that in 24 hours conditions can go from ice and snow to road temps over 100F.

 

As for snow conditions being different north of 7 and south of the near north, take a nice ride along the Erie lakeshore when drifts are higher than the vehicle even when it hasn't snowed for weeks. The wind here is what kills us.

 

Anytime my parents drive to Florida in the winter, they're on winters. Mountain through PA aren't worth the risk with summers. They aren't driving a tonne down there anyhow, so they put a few thousand kms of warm weather on the tires, better then the alternative.

[Fish Farmer]

Try pulling your boat back up the ramp in Picton when it's glazed over with ice, I don't care what you have 4X4 or winter tires, you ain't going to make it. You better have salt and sand in the back of your truck.

[LostAnotherOne]

It's funny I bought a house two years ago on a very steep hill. When theres a snow storm I have to park my car which has all season tires at the bottom of the hill cause I can't get up. My girlfriend has winter tires and has no problem getting up there.

[irishfield]

Maybe she's the better driver?