Big Cliff Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 We are ok but I know several people that don't have the resources we do and with the propane prices going through the roof and this being an extreemly cold winter I know that some people on fixed incomes are in a position where they have a choice, do without food or do without heat. I just got off the phone with our local MPPs Laurie Scott's office and was told there is no provincial programs in place to help those in need and there is nothing in the near future. I was told to call the United Way they might be able to pay a bill or two. Now I am angry, there is no real reason for the cost of propane to have gone up by more than 100% in the past year, apparently propane prices are unregulated but in the last few years there have been all kinds of incentives for people to switch from electric to high efficiency propane systems so many of us did. Now we are in a position where we don't have a choice. I find it strange that a country like Canada can send billions of $ to help other countries in need, our politicians can give themselves raises and lavish pensions and the people that worked their whole lives in this country and paid their taxes can be literly left out in the cold! There must be something we can do but what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 What about an old fashioned wood stove? Sure beats freezing to death no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Cliff Posted February 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 What about an old fashioned wood stove? Sure beats freezing to death no? If you don't have one, where are you going to get the money to put one in? It isn't just the cost of the stove but you need a proper chimney, your home insurance can go up quite a bit, and there is still the cost of the wood. if you are older and not very mobile just trying to get out to the wood pile and hauling it in the house can be a big challange. It is an option but not a very viable one in many cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 And the prices for propane are still rising Cliff. A friend down the road uses the same supplier as me and just payed 16 cents a litre more on Friday than I did 2 weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iFish4real Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) I find it strange that a country like Canada can send billions of $ to help other countries in need, our politicians can give themselves raises and lavish pensions and the people that worked their whole lives in this country and paid their taxes can be literly left out in the cold! I'm all with you, it's pathetic...life is becoming more and more like a pond ...big fish eat the small ones, eat or be eaten One thing you should do for sure...go cut as much wood as you need before sleeping under cold or starve your family Edited February 10, 2014 by iFish4real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxie Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 We are ok but I know several people that don't have the resources we do and with the propane prices going through the roof and this being an extreemly cold winter I know that some people on fixed incomes are in a position where they have a choice, do without food or do without heat. I just got off the phone with our local MPPs Laurie Scott's office and was told there is no provincial programs in place to help those in need and there is nothing in the near future. I was told to call the United Way they might be able to pay a bill or two. Now I am angry, there is no real reason for the cost of propane to have gone up by more than 100% in the past year, apparently propane prices are unregulated but in the last few years there have been all kinds of incentives for people to switch from electric to high efficiency propane systems so many of us did. Now we are in a position where we don't have a choice. I find it strange that a country like Canada can send billions of $ to help other countries in need, our politicians can give themselves raises and lavish pensions and the people that worked their whole lives in this country and paid their taxes can be literly left out in the cold! There must be something we can do but what? The number will grow and there is no turning back. The confiscation of wealth began in 08 and will not stop so get used to it. When push comes to shove we are gonna have to act like those have in other countries for years when faced with extreme challenges and that is to push back, HARD!!! And the sooner we start making ourselves heard the better. No united way or other organizations are gong to help because they are faced with their own challenges and good luck expecting any self serving, line towing politico to do anything either. Their hands are either tied or in an envelope or pocket scrounging whatever change they can fleece out of us. We have to help each other but is that even possible while we bud in line, cut each other off on the road or hoard sale items from each other in a store? We can even keep our heads up for any extended period of time without checking screens to see if anyone gave a crap to contact us in the last 5 minutes. Amazes me how a video of some fool doing something utterly inane can garner millions of views in a heartbeat. Shows where priorities lie doesn't it? Time to seriously look in the mirror and make something real happen but it has to be done together. Anger is a useful emotion and it has the power to motivate like no other when multiplied through many. Blah blah blah..... I know, I guess I just can't help myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outllaw Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 the government will just keep cutting cheques to other countries. and then seniors veterans disabled and lo-income earners will do without. as for wood stoves the government would much rather give the wood to foreign countrys at 5 cents stumpage.. make ya sic eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC1 Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) If you look at this from an even bigger picture, the instant that these energy sources we use are depleted, governments and corporations will no longer have control over anybody. Money will mean nothing, and we will basically need to live like the animals do - Survival each day will become the main goal in everyone's lives, not a 9-5. Get learning on how to pickle stuff like bigugli, because sure as hell our climate won't be able to grow food in the winter. And forget going up north to try and go fishing. You'll be limited to where you can walk / bike, unless you're willing to ditch your home to go on a weeklong fishing excursion. Up until that happens, does any privelidged person owning a corporation or in a government want to be at the same level as everyone else? I know what my answer would be. Edited February 10, 2014 by EC1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Now I am angry, there is no real reason for the cost of propane to have gone up by more than 100% in the past year, Isn't there a propane shortage which is leading to the price hikes? It's not like the prices went up just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captpierre Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 fixed income folks have it tough for sure. Their savings earn squat at the bank. Not even keeping up with inflation. I guess there are food banks. Put an extra sweater on but these are only bandaids. Bottom line, we have to prepare for retirement better. Solid financial planning has to happen and start early I heard David Chilton (Wealthy Barber) speak a few weeks ago. He says most of us have done a poor job living within our means and saving for the future. ie job loss, illness, retirement. His formula, live on 90% of what you make and invest the rest. Start young and things will work out. Usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 The number will grow and there is no turning back. The confiscation of wealth began in 08 and will not stop so get used to it. When push comes to shove we are gonna have to act like those have in other countries for years when faced with extreme challenges and that is to push back, HARD!!! And the sooner we start making ourselves heard the better. No united way or other organizations are gong to help because they are faced with their own challenges and good luck expecting any self serving, line towing politico to do anything either. Their hands are either tied or in an envelope or pocket scrounging whatever change they can fleece out of us. We have to help each other but is that even possible while we bud in line, cut each other off on the road or hoard sale items from each other in a store? We can even keep our heads up for any extended period of time without checking screens to see if anyone gave a crap to contact us in the last 5 minutes. Amazes me how a video of some fool doing something utterly inane can garner millions of views in a heartbeat. Shows where priorities lie doesn't it? Time to seriously look in the mirror and make something real happen but it has to be done together. Anger is a useful emotion and it has the power to motivate like no other when multiplied through many. Blah blah blah..... I know, I guess I just can't help myself. Yup keep voting for Harpo and he will take care of the little guy NOT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ironmaker Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I find it difficult to believe that there are no social programs out there to assist those that are making a choice to freeze to death or starve to death. A few years ago I met a guy that was out of work and his EI had run out. This isn't a drug user or alcoholic this was a construction worker that was off work like thousands of others and got behind the 8 ball. No car, no cable, no internet, a $500.00 a month basement apt., no frills. Friends of his came to me to see what if anything I could do to help. I went to Dianne Finlay's office our MP and armed with a pile of outstanding bills, his EI papers and T4 from the previous years showing he was up until then a taxpaying citizen for the previous 30 years and showed her riding assistant. The first thing she did was set up a meeting with the local welfare office. His heat was back on within 2 days, his cupboard was stocked with staples from the local food bank, he received basic budgeting skills, they worked with his landlord and caught him up on rent. The boys sealed some the leaks and added some insulation in his small apartment. He drew welfare until he was called back to work and he hated it. It was just enough to pay the rent, keep the heat on at 62F and some lights on. He hated it. This was a proud guy that never thought he would need social assistance and was too proud to ask for help. I don't know where you got that info from Big Cliff but I find it hard to believe. Say what you want about our Gov., but no one is going to starve to death in Canada or freeze to death that asks for help and deserves it or not. All those that were on EI and ran out of benefits don't all end up on the streets begging for food and shelter. Those that are homeless are there mainly because of mental health issues, choose not to go on social assistance, or are using their social assistance to feed alcoholism and or a drug habit. That is a simplification I know but this is a fishing forum and I need to be somewhere shortly. Something is amiss here. There is help out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Old I, you nailed it with this sentence ' A few years ago I met a guy that was out of work and his EI had run out' a few years ago this country was better run than it is today. Harpo closed most of the support centres to balance the budget for next years election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) There is help out there. And sadly, that help is far too easy to get for those that choose to abuse our system. I have a 70 year old cousin who was born into welfare and just stayed on it forever. She had 6 kids by 6 different men and was never married and never worked a single day in her entire life. She just sat back collecting her welfare and the more kids she had, the more money she got. I was never unemployed a single day in my entire life, from the day I left school until the day I retired, and she told me I was nothing but a damned sucker for working all the time and paying taxes. If someone needs a helping hand till they get back on their feet, lets give it to them, but lets also get rid of the garbage like my cousin who do as little as they can to get as much as they can for free. Edited February 10, 2014 by lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2014/01/29/columbus-skyrocketing-propane-prices-consumer-10.html http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/26/22455731-prolonged-cold-blast-worsens-propane-shortage-across-midwest?lite It's not just a Canadian problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigugli Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Its not easy trying to fight back. For the older generation, I do not know what to suggest.West Niagara is blessed with two of the best support organizations/foodbanks in the country. They support over 1000 families in need. Folks are going to have to relearn old skills and learn to be adaptable and creative once again. I am fortunate in having been taught many old world skills. I will be relying on them a little more, and trying to impart that knowledge to my children, nieces, nephews, and the generation now being born. I've heard that 10% retirement saving goal before. It's not realistic living on minimum wage and spending upwards of 60% of income on rent. Not realistic for those on a fixed income. I followed that rule and had 2 different pension funds. Thanks to government created loopholes. One employer was allowed to borrow against the company pension. The company folded and so did the pension. With the stock collapse a few years back, my locked in RRSP, taken out from another past employer in trouble, lost 70% of its value overnight. First news of the mess was that all payments from the RRSP fund was being suspended until such time as the fund recovered sufficiently. Those already drawing on that pension were cut off for almost 5 years. They have only now started paying out again. I guess enough of the previous recipients had died off. Big government and big business does not give a hoot about what happens to the average citizen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grt1 Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 up here we use heating oil, in December it was $1.30 a litre, my last bill was for January, it was $1.39 a litre. i'm lucky I can burn oil to help keep the fuel oil consumption down but it is still over $500 for less than 100 gallons of fuel oil (1/2 tank). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Bill the propane shortage is "arranged" just like the gas shortage in the late 70's was, so they can raise prices. Simple as that... because they can and they shipped our propane off to other parts of the world to "cause" it. I had my furnace oil tanks filled again on Friday.. just 5 weeks since last filled. $1782 for 1294 litres of dyed furnace oil.. better known as farm diesel! $1.38 / litre and that's with no road tax on it.. what is diesel selling for at the pumps these days??. We're being hosed at every turn... I could have had him put the same fuel in the tractor's tank beside the hangar for 15 cents less a litre as "coloured diesel". Makes no sense. Hydro bill yesterday.. $808.32.. and last months $836 ...same usage just 4 years ago would have been around $500 with a yearly average of about $5500. Now with time of use.. the doubling of the actual usage bill with "delivery" (that use to be $17.95/month fixed) I'm looking at $8k years now for hydro alone. Thank god I can still cover all this, but the days are growing thin and in a hurry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 You don't wanna know what I paid for diesel the other day at the pumps, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxie Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yup keep voting for Harpo and he will take care of the little guy NOT!!! LOL. Silly Rabbit. This isn't about left, right or down the middle. It's about us getting of our comfortable behinds and dictating instead of being dictated too otherwise all we work and strive for as a human race is all for not. Like I've ranted on before, there is nothing left and all that you think is safely accumulated in a pension plan, deposited in a bank or invested in property or stocks ain't worth a tinkers damn and shrinking daily as new ways are being devised to separate you from it. What you think you own whether it be monetary or not isn't worth the paper that states so. Get it? How far does your dollar go as days pass? Anyone think that without drastic measures to reverse the flow this is going to be fixed by our governors or will it simply fix itself? hehehe. Not likely. EC1 nailed it and as much as those of us that wear rose coloured glasses would scoff at the inference, it will happen. Simply because that is what we evolved from. I'm going to Nipissing to get my fish on. Have fun Y'all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governator Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Sometimes when push comes to shove, selling property is the quickest bail out. Over the past year, my personal business has collapsed with my US clients going local causing my guaranteed monthly to vanish. After my wife was in an accident and the car was totaled last month, we've had to seriously consider selling the house under our circumstance. However, I've been very fortunate that a client has come through and wants to hire me on full time next month. There has to be help available, as mentioned above. I just can't imagine this great country not helping its good citizens when things hit the fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxie Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Sometimes when push comes to shove, selling property is the quickest bail out. Over the past year, my personal business has collapsed with my US clients going local causing my guaranteed monthly to vanish. After my wife was in an accident and the car was totaled last month, we've had to seriously consider selling the house under our circumstance. However, I've been very fortunate that a client has come through and wants to hire me on full time next month. There has to be help available, as mentioned above. I just can't imagine this great country not helping its good citizens when things hit the fan. I feel for you. Our mortgage is up for renewal in 10 months and we'll be going the open variable route from now on so when, not if the mud does hit the fan take out what equity we have built up and hopefully live to fight another day. The government and the banks will get to it eventually but as long as it is touches our hands first they can "Suck it" till then. Edited February 10, 2014 by moxie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkpie Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 And sadly, that help is far too easy to get for those that choose to abuse our system. I have a 70 year old cousin who was born into welfare and just stayed on it forever. She had 6 kids by 6 different men and was never married and never worked a single day in her entire life. She just sat back collecting her welfare and the more kids she had, the more money she got. I was never unemployed a single day in my entire life, from the day I left school until the day I retired, and she told me I was nothing but a damned sucker for working all the time and paying taxes. If someone needs a helping hand till they get back on their feet, lets give it to them, but lets also get rid of the garbage like my cousin who do as little as they can to get as much as they can for free. Absolutely right. Far too much abuse, leading to shortages for those truly in need. The lazy and immoral live off the system, and those too embarrassed to ask for help suffer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outllaw Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I was going to type a rant... no use . who listens. not the folks we voted for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Old I, you nailed it with this sentence ' A few years ago I met a guy that was out of work and his EI had run out' a few years ago this country was better run than it is today. Harpo closed most of the support centres to balance the budget for next years election. Which support centres? The federal government does not administer welfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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