Drugs

[BassMan11]

38 minutes ago, AKRISONER said:

Art,

It sounds like you are a victim of our broken education system. I dont know if things have changed in the last 12 years, but the cold hard facts are that when I was in highschool, there were two clear paths 1. Getting good grades that would be high enough for you to apply to programs in university or college.

There was a clear set of pre-requisit high school credits and a minimum grade % required in order to apply to programs.

 

And shockingly, Path 2 was...you guessed it, the trades. What this meant was that the trades were the only option available for students who couldnt maintain a high enough average in school to be able to apply to college or university. What this meant was that the people that spent their time in highschool doing drugs, skipping class and flunking out were pushed towards the trades, while the intelligent hard working kids were told to go and try and get a meaningless degree. Even more incredible is that you had a  very large group of kids who maybe didnt have the math brain to hold up an A average and get an engineering degree, so their average wasnt as "Pretty" The kids still worked hard, did all of their work and even had A's in a lot of their classes, they just struggled in math or one of the sciences. Because they didnt have an A average they were then guided into taking useless degrees that basically result in a student not getting a job. English and history degrees were most common.

Meanwhile Johnny who spends his entire days dealing weed down at the smoke pit doesnt give a damn because he can always get an apprenticeship from his uncle in the union as a plumber.

Myself and my girlfriend and two of my good friends may be the perfect example of the bogus education system we have. My girlfriend carried a high B average all of the way through highschool and had A's in all of english and writing related courses. She went to school for english and got a degree with a pretty high grade point average, she even won some awards for some papers she wrote in university. Upon completion, she had her English major, and proceeded to work at a publishing company for slightly over minimum wage packing boxes with books. (she eventually got a job in group insurance and is doing ok now, but will never make a tradesmens wage)

I finished highschool with a B+ average, i wouild have had honour roll but i just really disliked math and hence, my one bad C grade resulted in me not getting honour roll. 17 years old at the time I thought I wanted to be a graphic designer, I applied, got special admittance to the top graphic design program in ontario at the time at humber college. Had honours through college, worked my ass off every summer and got given a special job with the city due to the responsibility i took on and hard labour i did, i got to work by myself and run the maintenence operations at the cemetery in town. I got out of college during the economic downturn, every ad agency in the city was doing mass lay offs because the first thing that goes during a downturn is advertising. I ended up scrambling for any job I could get, started moving hot tubs for a living 6 days a week.

Finally I got a break makign barely over minimum wage, commuted two hours each way every day to a horrible job doing inside sales with a bit of graphics on the side. I was hurting bad...fluked out got an interview with the company that I am at to this day and the rest is history. I make ok money but will never make a journeymans wage.

My two friends, one who I was in grade school with since grade 2 has a reading learning disability, is ESL and nearly failed school his entire life. He is now journeyman electrician after taking the test and failing until he passed (5 times...it may have been 4) He at least knows how to work hard labour, even though his "critical thinking, reading comprehension and math skills are severly lacking.

My other very good friend, spent his highschool days in a hardcore band, smoked weed and skipped school every day. Partied every weekend all weekend, had a couple of part time jobs in highschool that he got fired from. Out of highschool he started working seasonal work. Would then go on unemployment over the winter and would sit at his parents house over the winter smoking weed and watching tv. His uncle, a union plumber said hed get him in with the union. Hes now a final year apprentice and makes more money than me. Still doesnt really like working that much but does it to pay the bills.

Now you tell me, does the system make sense? Or is something fundamentally very very wrong.

So here's what I take away from this. 

- Have fun in highschool until grade 12 and buckle down a bit.

- Only attend collage or university if you really know what you want to do.. i.e. no general business degree.

- When life gives you an opportunity... jump on it quickly / no matter what the job

- Try and pick a profession where you have the opportunity to make good money. 

- You usually have to pay your dues working jobs you don't enjoy until you get a break. 

Basically these are just the facts of life. Some people will be given ample opportunities who don't earn it... and some people will spend their whole life working hard to only getting that 1 shot. The sooner you realize life isn't ever going to be fair the better. Work hard, apply yourself, be polite, be positive, take every opportunity, be approachable, and always be looking to improve. Do that and most of the time things will work themselves out. 

The housing thing is insane. I do feel bad for the next generation and how they will be able to afford a decent place. 

The drug thing is a complicated issue. So many different reasons why people turn to them or are put onto them. Some self inflicted.. some not. The ones I feel for the most are the young kids who really are not given a chance growing up and the people who get hooked on them as a painkiller from being at the hospital. 

 

[pics]

We need trades at Stelco more than ever. We stopped hiring production workers a little while back but the ones we hired are starting to make their mark and establish themselves..The days of being hired just for having a strong back are gone and you need to be clean cut and drug free with at least a high school diploma and even some college or university. Sometimes when I leave work I stop at the closest Walmart which happens to be in the poorest part of the city and I can't believe how many look as if they are drugged up. The security at the front doors don't give me a second look which I can't say for most of the clientele..Myself and many of my cousins grew up in public housing but most of us have pulled ourselves out of that life just by working hard. It was a tough time but hard drugs were not something we would ever see..When I started at Stelco 20 years ago you could buy a house within a year or two as they started at double our yearly wage.. now they are starting at 4 times what we make in a year .. the younger generation is going to have a tougher time for sure. Many are growing up with different social  and environmental expectations than we did.. I really don't think that is what is making many of them turn to hard drugs.. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by pics

[Old Ironmaker]

Pics, in 1998 we (Stelco Hilton Works) were looking to hire 200 hourly rated production workers. We received no less than 25,000 resumes on line. As far away as India and The Ukraine. I got pulled off of my job to help H.R. try to go through the mountain of them. It was obvious that the 6 of us were not going to be able to that and do our jobs as well. We talked about us hiring an H.R. firm to help. During the 1st meeting with one group they talked about using an auto reader to look at the cover page and if it didn't have the key words, post secondary, College, or University they would automatically deep sixed. Thrown away, trashed. I said to our guys and gal that would mean I would never be sitting with you right now if that was the prerequisite 26 years ago. We came to a compromise that I fought hard to get. Hey Pics your resume might have been thrown out if not for this Old Ironmaker, your welcomed. I drove a Larry Car and the Quench Car during the strike of 90' so maybe your not so lucky after all. Stay safe. 

Something many don't know. It was difficult to keep good workers up to 81'. The 1st thing we told them during their orientation was to go to the Stelco Credit Union on Barton St. and they would qualify for a 100% loan for a new car after 90 days. Many were still paying it off 20 years or more later. 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Old Ironmaker

[jimmer]

12 hours ago, Old Ironmaker said:

Pics, in 1998 we (Stelco Hilton Works) were looking to hire 200 hourly rated production workers. We received no less than 25,000 resumes on line. As far away as India and The Ukraine. I got pulled off of my job to help H.R. try to go through the mountain of them. It was obvious that the 6 of us were not going to be able to that and do our jobs as well. We talked about us hiring an H.R. firm to help. During the 1st meeting with one group they talked about using an auto reader to look at the cover page and if it didn't have the key words, post secondary, College, or University they would automatically deep sixed. Thrown away, trashed. I said to our guys and gal that would mean I would never be sitting with you right now if that was the prerequisite 26 years ago. We came to a compromise that I fought hard to get. Hey Pics your resume might have been thrown out if not for this Old Ironmaker, your welcomed. I drove a Larry Car and the Quench Car during the strike of 90' so maybe your not so lucky after all. Stay safe. 

Something many don't know. It was difficult to keep good workers up to 81'. The 1st thing we told them during their orientation was to go to the Stelco Credit Union on Barton St. and they would qualify for a 100% loan for a new car after 90 days. Many were still paying it off 20 years or more later. 

I like that you stood up for your principles about the screening of the education.  It is the way it's going though, which can result in missing some very good candidates.

[GregF2]

Legalizing marijiuna every where certainly does not help.  I don't care what anyone says, it is a drug and will lead to harder drugs.   So stupid and can't see how people can't see that.  Drugs are a choice, you either do it or don't.  

[dave524]

47 minutes ago, GregF2 said:

Legalizing marijiuna every where certainly does not help.  I don't care what anyone says, it is a drug and will lead to harder drugs.   So stupid and can't see how people can't see that.  Drugs are a choice, you either do it or don't.  

More hard drug addicts are a result of MD's scripts than any Marijuana use. 

[lew]

24 minutes ago, dave524 said:

More hard drug addicts are a result of MD's scripts than any Marijuana use. 

5 years ago my wife underwent major surgery and the surgeon prescribed 100 Oxycodone for pain relief. I picked up the drugs at the local pharmacy we dealt with at the time and when I got home my wife said it looked like some were missing so she counted them and sure enough there were only 84 pills. She counted them again and then I also counted them and  there were definitely 16 pills missing. I can see someone miss-counting 1 or 2 pills but 16 makes no sense. We contacted the pharmacist who said we were 100% wrong and we did indeed get 100 pills.

My guess...naturally...is that someone in the pharmacy was stealing the pills for themselves or to sell on the street but there was nothing we could do about it as it was our word against a well established pharmacy.

We left that pharmacy for a new one that had recently opened and gave them all our business. I had a long talk with both our family doctor and the new pharmacist and they both said theft in the business was not uncommon but proving it was a totally different story.

[Sinker]

2 hours ago, GregF2 said:

Legalizing marijiuna every where certainly does not help.  I don't care what anyone says, it is a drug and will lead to harder drugs.   So stupid and can't see how people can't see that.  Drugs are a choice, you either do it or don't.  

I know people in thier 60's, 70's and 80's who have been smoking weed their whole lives. All good, hard-working, productive members of society. 

Its the most harmless drug there is. More beneficial than harmful. 

And no, I'm not a pot head, chronic stoner at all. I have tried it many times, and enjoyed it socially, but I am by no means a regular user. I have, however, seen it do many good things for other people,and support its use. 

S. 

[Sinker]

1 hour ago, dave524 said:

More hard drug addicts are a result of MD's scripts than any Marijuana use. 

100% FACT!

S. 

[GregF2]

Feel sorry for the part of society that thinks marijuana is not bad.  It most definitely could lead to harder drugs, kills brain cells and fact proven to be addictive.  After two weeks it offers no health benefits, except addiction.   That part of society is what is causing the decay of our worlds morals.   Amazing that people can't see that and the only reason it is becoming legal now is desperate liberals gaining more tax revenue.   Very, very sad....  What will these same people that wanted to legalize marijuana want to legalize next?  

Amazing how the minority now in days affects the majority, as I know no one that smokes pot or even wants it legalized....  They understand the harm it does to those that smoke it and what addiction can do.....

Edited August 4, 2019 by GregF2

[GregF2]

24 minutes ago, Sinker said:

100% FACT!

S. 

Talk about Fake news!

[Sinker]

16 minutes ago, GregF2 said:

Talk about Fake news!

Do you have any proof otherwise? I'd be my paycheck on that! 

 

S. 

[cisco]

23 minutes ago, GregF2 said:

Feel sorry for the part of society that thinks marijuana is not bad.  It most definitely could lead to harder drugs, kills brain cells and fact proven to be addictive.  After two weeks it offers no health benefits, except addiction.   That part of society is what is causing the decay of our worlds morals.   Amazing that people can't see that and the only reason it is becoming legal now is desperate liberals gaining more tax revenue.   Very, very sad....  What will these same people that wanted to legalize marijuana want to legalize next?  

Amazing how the minority now in days affects the majority, as I know no one that smokes pot or even wants it legalized....  They understand the harm it does to those that smoke it and what addiction can do.....

So what about booze and cigarettes? I never heard of an equivalent to Alcoholics Anonymous or smoking cessation programs for marijuana.  How many DUI fatalities are from pot? My guess is next to zero. I bet more fatal accidents are dropped-cigarette or lighter search related.  

[Terry]

33 minutes ago, GregF2 said:

Talk about Fake news!

I dont think you have a clue what you are talking about

it has great medical uses, is not addictive  (for some it can be habit forming)

and most heavy users that i know quit hard drugs and or booze and settled with pot as a milder alternative to heavy drugs not the other way around  

[GregF2]

7 minutes ago, Terry said:

I dont think you have a clue what you are talking about

it has great medical uses, is not addictive  (for some it can be habit forming)

and most heavy users that i know quit hard drugs and or booze and settled with pot as a milder alternative to heavy drugs not the other way around  

And neither do.  It is proven it has no health effects after two weeks.  So many scientific studies prove that.   Why do you think it was illegal for years.  Get a clue anyone that responds otherwise obviously is a druggie with poor morals.  I am out of this thread - too many weirdos.....  Exactly the decay of society I was talking about if you guys are for it..... 

[Terry]

im glad your gone, you are misinformed

well tell that to the people with epilepsy, who havent had a grand mal seizure in over 6 months , tell that to the people with parkinson's disease that can now feed themselves

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Terry

[cisco]

Yes and tell that to a mechanic buddy who had tried all kinds of pain pills for his arthritis but now does a bit of pot instead to get needed pain relief.

[cisco]

30 minutes ago, GregF2 said:

And neither do.  It is proven it has no health effects after two weeks.  So many scientific studies prove that.   Why do you think it was illegal for years.  Get a clue anyone that responds otherwise obviously is a druggie with poor morals.  I am out of this thread - too many weirdos.....  Exactly the decay of society I was talking about if you guys are for it..... 

Capitalism is the decay of our society. It wraps itself in the flags of democracy and patriotism as camouflage to get what it wants.

[DRIFTER_016]

On 7/30/2019 at 11:10 AM, AKRISONER said:

I dont think addiction rates have increased, its the drugs themselves that are causing the mass rate of people dying. In the 70's  fentynal or crystal meth werent popular choices for addicts. These highly synthetic compounds are basically a time bomb waiting to kill people.

Tom you make some great points about my generation actually having somewhat of a tough go. Society is changing drastically, its taking people a lot longer to have "settling down and starting a family" as an option at all. Most folks cant even fathom the idea until they are 30 years old because of school debt and the need for a decent job.

Pluma, you kind of make the point. Yes you worked hard and made it work. You probably just decided to be a plumber, were able to get a quality job, work hard and make ends meet. 

In todays reality, this just doesnt happen. Theres no such thing as just deciding to be this or that. You either have to go to school first, or have a great connection. Theres no good paying trades jobs that are "just available for the taking" anymore. Thats the biggest difference between back in the day and now.

small towns have always had issues, maybe they just werent at the forefront. I think there were just more "drunks" back in the day, rather than people tweeking on crystal meth. How many stories do you hear about guys with dads that beat their moms up and crap when they got drunk. Its no different then than it is now. Just different substances people are using.

The trades have always been a great opportunity. You can apprentice and make money while learning your trade. 

My buddies son graduated high school last year and is now in an apprenticeship to become a licensed line man. He will make a crap load of $$$$ in the trade.

While the is schooling with apprenticeship it's nothing like going to college as its just part time and usually employer paid.

For too long they have been pushing university degrees and the trades are short on people because of it.

There are tons of great jobs to be had in all of the trades.

[DRIFTER_016]

On 7/30/2019 at 4:24 PM, Old Ironmaker said:

5 years to get a 3 year degree Dave? Roachdale! That was the school where the courses taken prepared a young person to deal narcotics. There is a CBC special out there trying to explain what went on in that place. I visited once before I went to Ohio for school. The 1st ting that struck me were all the neket people walking around for the sake of Art. It was grade 13 that I smoked my 1st spliff. It was that day I knew I didn't like the stuff. My new young Dr. gave me my marijuana script. I bought some candy's from them. They were supposed to be very low in THC and high in the other stuff CB something. Supposed to suck on them for 5 minutes. It didn't do anything so I sucked on them for 30 mins, still no pain relief so I chewed the whole thing. Had my second bad trip in my life at 64 years old. They have more THC than advertised.  Gave the crap away. Based on my experience the entire Medical MJ thing is a scam. Everyone in the waiting room were stoners if you ask me. The 1st thing they wanted was my VISA card number. I did 1 semester at Youngstown State, my major was offensive backfield. Went to the plant in December for a year until school started. It wasn't a full hop scholarship. I wasn't alone. 30 years latter I'm still trying to save up some money for school and many of us retired at the same time. l. It's funny, one of the first things I did after taking my pension was to enroll in Brock. I was 46 and wasn't the youngest person in class. One of the prof's asked me, "Johnny D are you here to learn or teach?"

I'm currently chewing one of my CBD caramels for my back pain. Zero THC just CBD. I save the THC ones for the evening as they help me sleep.

[Fisherman]

28 minutes ago, DRIFTER_016 said:

I'm currently chewing one of my CBD caramels for my back pain. Zero THC just CBD. I save the THC ones for the evening as they help me sleep.

Well that makes at least 2 of us that haven't become hard core addicts.  I'm not talking a Cheech & Chong monster doobies with smoke billowing that could hide the Queen Mary, I don't need any more than a small peanut size piece to achieve the sleep factor.

[misfish]

 

 

As for blame the parent? I say fk that. Look at peer pressure. Ya,like it was back in the late 70,s in high school.  Yup, they have a choice . Right or wrong,they make it. How many of us have said,been there done that,dont do it ?

Todays kids have way more info then we did back then.

 

The addiction can be beat. Sometimes it takes a real life awakening.  I have watched it personally.  Just got a text the salmon are hitting big time in BC.

[Moosebunk]

Working in rural E.R.'s outside of Ottawa and small towns in Nunavut, I've given Narcan only a few times in the past 3, 4 maybe 5 years. One of those patients was someone we snowed, another an elderly patient who just kinda forgets if she took her pills that day and sometimes takes more.  I'd have to wonder how my E.R. friends in the city are doing with this?

[Moosebunk]

18 hours ago, misfish said:

 

 

As for blame the parent? I say fk that. Look at peer pressure. Ya,like it was back in the late 70,s in high school.  Yup, they have a choice . Right or wrong,they make it. How many of us have said,been there done that,dont do it ?

Todays kids have way more info then we did back then.

Agreed.

And today consequences with the law can be greater too.  Kids know what they're doing and make a choice.  Sneaking a bit of Shnapps after school in grade 8, smoking mom's menthols in the field in grade 7, stealing from dad's coin jar in grade 6 to buy candy, trying to walk out the front door of the Giant Tiger with an 86 pack of crayons in grade 1... even the harmless stuff, kids know what they're doing.  

[chris.brock]

On 8/4/2019 at 8:54 AM, GregF2 said:

After two weeks it offers no health benefits, except addiction.  

I knew a girl, she was in her 20's, her MS was very bad, the only way she could somewhat function was with a little puff, no other drugs would help her, and this is long before weed was medically prescribed or recognized for treatment