Ontario to Increase Ethanol Content in Gasoline

[G.mech]

It looks like we're going to have to deal with even more ethanol in our fuels now that the Ontario government has mandated 10% average ethanol content in gasoline.  The current 5% and the new 10% are the average content across all blends so unless they can put 15% in the regular or something, we're likely going to see some ethanol in the premium blends.  Currently regular has up to 10%  which allows them to keep the premium ethanol free but most cars can't handle any more than 10%  so it's hard to say what the fuel companies are going to do to achieve the new averages.  At any rate, this is not good news for boaters & small engine users....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/ontario-to-double-gasolines-ethanol-content-requirement/article37145115/

[kenzy31]

This is no good, not for cars, outboards or small engines of any kind! 2 strokes hate that crap they sell now, its only going to get worse and cost the average Joe even more money ?

[jimmer]

I'm not happy about that. That crap makes a mess of my tank and boat.

[BillM]

Time to by more bottles of Startron for the boat I guess.  

[AKRISONER]

Does not effect premium grade...however most marine gas around me is mid grade...looks like ill be hauling more jerry cans around to get the ethanol free gas.

[Acountdeleted]

They said it'll be the equivalent of taking 130 000 cars off the road every year in terms of CO2 emissions. 

 

Though i feel they need to stop screwing over the consumer to try and be more environmentally friendly, at least they are trying to pretend they are doing something about this. 

[fishindevil]

ethanol gas is just plain friggin garbage period..................at least let us have premium that's corn gas free......grrrrrr

[jimmer]

I guess it's one of the easiest things to hit and make it look like they are doing something for the environment.

 

[Rod Caster]

Go to this official public input site and click on "submit comment"!! You have 55 days to make your voice heard. Environmental Registry.

https://www.ebr.gov.on.ca/ERS-WEB-External/displaynoticecontent.do?noticeId=MTM0MDQ3&statusId=MjAzOTE4&language=en

I sent a letter to the "Environment' Minister  deriding this proposal a couple days ago.

[email protected]

... the guy with zero environmental experience/education on his resume. I won't post it here, it's too long. Admin, take this down if this is considered political. 

 

Gasoline usage is on its way down, ethanol is lower quality, they already subsidize better renewable technologies like solar and wind, why do they still bother with the highly subsidized ethanol industry, that is mixed with another slowly-dying highly subsidized industry (oil)... ... GreenField Specialty Alcohols Inc. is the biggest liberal party donor...hmmm.

 

I like renewable resources and don't mind subsidizing startup technologies. Ethanol is already old technology and should be considered no better than gasoline. Barely more renewable than oil which is also an organic product made by natural processes. I'd replace gas right now if it was reasonable but we aren't there yet. I'm not scrapping my 1998 polaris XC just yet, i'd only have to buy a new one made with more non-renewable products anyway.... ethanol  contributes nothing to advance energy solutions/technologies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_ethanol  tell me this is a state-of-the-art and/or simple process? How much power, transportation and farm land does this take? They still have to farm it, crop it, transport it, process it in massive industrial complexes (that take lots of resources to build and maintain), further refine it, load it into trucks, ship it, mix it with gas, ship the mix to gas stations. etc. etc. etc. Crazy Bull. 

[LeXXington]

Wonder if they will lower the carbon tax on premium gas?

I find most marinas don't even bother with regular gas anymore.

 

 

[John Bacon]

1 hour ago, jerpears1 said:

They said it'll be the equivalent of taking 130 000 cars off the road every year in terms of CO2 emissions. 

 

Though i feel they need to stop screwing over the consumer to try and be more environmentally friendly, at least they are trying to pretend they are doing something about this. 

I do recall reading that using ethonal in gas actually leads to a net increase in carbon emissions.  They may be screwing us over for nothing.

I did a quick search and found a few links.  I am sure that other studies will show the opposite.  But at least according to some; this isn't even going to help.

https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/55/7/593/306765

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ethanol-not-cut-emissions/

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/293291-study-ethanol-increases-carbon-emissions

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2017 by JohnBacon

[G.mech]

1 hour ago, AKRISONER said:

Does not effect premium grade...however most marine gas around me is mid grade...looks like ill be hauling more jerry cans around to get the ethanol free gas.

How do you know this?  It's kind of up the air as near as I can tell and the oil companies are the ones who will ultimately decide aren't they?

[DRIFTER_016]

1 hour ago, BillM said:

Time to by more bottles of Startron for the boat I guess.  

Better buy a 45 gallon drum.

[AKRISONER]

40 minutes ago, G.mech said:

How do you know this?  It's kind of up the air as near as I can tell and the oil companies are the ones who will ultimately decide aren't they?

i guess i wasnt clear, the law would only effect regular grade fuel.

 

If you buy Esso Premium it already has ethanol in it. I know shell v power has no ethanol and i believe Crappy Can's premium is also ethanol free.

[John Bacon]

21 minutes ago, AKRISONER said:

i guess i wasnt clear, the law would only effect regular grade fuel.

 

If you buy Esso Premium it already has ethanol in it. I know shell v power has no ethanol and i believe Crappy Can's premium is also ethanol free.

Doesn't Canadian Tire get their fuel from Esso?  Or, at least some of it.  

[G.mech]

33 minutes ago, AKRISONER said:

i guess i wasnt clear, the law would only effect regular grade fuel.

 

Again, I am not clear on where you're reading this.  The law doesn't stipulate which grades of fuel the ethanol goes in, only that it must average 5% (or now 10%) ethanol for all fuel supplied.  The refiner/distributor determines which brands get juiced.  They could put 10% in all grades or increase the percentage in some and lower it in others....

If you really want to twist your mind, the formula is in section 4 of the legislation:

 

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/050535

[AKRISONER]

1 hour ago, G.mech said:

Again, I am not clear on where you're reading this.  The law doesn't stipulate which grades of fuel the ethanol goes in, only that it must average 5% (or now 10%) ethanol for all fuel supplied.  The refiner/distributor determines which brands get juiced.  They could put 10% in all grades or increase the percentage in some and lower it in others....

If you really want to twist your mind, the formula is in section 4 of the legislation:

 

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/050535

 

https://www.theweathernetwork.com/news/articles/ontario-government-wants-to-double-gasoline-ethanol-by-2020/90322/

 

Sorry i was reading a different article. 

[porkpie]

2 hours ago, JohnBacon said:

Doesn't Canadian Tire get their fuel from Esso?  Or, at least some of it.  

At this point in time, Canadian tire premium as well as Costco premium are ethanol free at all stations.  Will this change in the future?  I hope not.

[lew]

UltraMar premium is also ethanol free.

[GBW]

4 hours ago, JohnBacon said:

Doesn't Canadian Tire get their fuel from Esso?  Or, at least some of it.  

I've seen the same delivery truck at the Esso and the Can Tire in Lindsay.

[gaspumper]

9 minutes ago, Geoff W said:

I've seen the same delivery truck at the Esso and the Can Tire in Lindsay.

When a delivery truck fills at the gas depot ,the depot blends the gas for which ever company they are delivering to.Some trucks pick up at the Belleville depot on Tank Farm Rd., and deliver any where in Ontario to any company.

[Dutch]

Gas excise tax should go down as well as gas prices then since we are essentially paying for water and not fuel.

[DRIFTER_016]

2 hours ago, Dutch said:

Gas excise tax should go down as well as gas prices then since we are essentially paying for water and not fuel.

Only Nestle gets free water!!!!  

[Old Ironmaker]

Apparently my 2011 Silverado can run on up to 80% Ethanol fuel.  For how long before the fuel system gets pooched I can't guess. They must have it south, certainly not here in Ontario. I must drive an extra 70K to buy Shell V Power for the boat and it ain't cheap. Dairy farmers out here are ditching the Bovine and selling the corn for fuel, better ROI I'm told. I would love to know what the total Carbon footprint is for transporting and processing the millions of tonnes of corn needed to turn it into fuel? I can remember the outcry when we went to Lead free. Same bee ess different century. I can't get Ethanol free gas in town but Tim Horton's has a plug in spot for electric cars there, what a joke we live in here in Ontario. It's not that I don't want to see us further pollute this World but it is us that has to pay and pay now for the sins of our Fathers.

[GBW]

34 minutes ago, Old Ironmaker said:

 but Tim Horton's has a plug in spot for electric cars there, what a joke we live in here in Ontario. It's not that I don't want to see us further pollute this World but it is us that has to pay and pay now for the sins of our Fathers.

Our father's father's and all those before them.  We didn't have the info we had even in the 70's as we do now so those working to the 'new world era' have to work with what we had and now have.  I hate the idea too as it means my boat that has been rather bullet proof for the last 10+ years may cost that much more to run and more down time to fix and new issues.  *ARGH*