Electricity costs explained - NF

[Jds63]

I know this has been discussed before but I've been frustrated with my increasing electricity bills even though we've been reducing our usage ... and seeing wind turbines pop up I was wondering why , because the province is already producing extra energy and dumping it over the border ...

 

Anyways I saw this article and thought I'd share it here in case other folks are as annoyed by this as I am.

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Explained: Why the cost of hydro is so high

· torontosun.com

· Sat Nov 19 2016

· Section: Comment (op

· Byline: Jack MacLaren and Parker Gallant Special to the Toronto Sun

· Permalink

 

Since the Liberals took office, households in Ontario are now paying about $1,000 more on their electricity bills every year. This means the cost of running your fridge, doing the laundry, or washing dishes has gone up more than 200% in a dozen years.

 

Why is the cost of hydro so high?

 

How is it possible to use little or no electricity and yet have to pay through the nose for delivery fees? Is this all a government cash grab or is there some rationale to it?

 

We think Ontarians deserve an explanation.

 

We all understand that we have to cover the cost of telephone poles, transmission towers, and high-voltage lines. Building and maintaining these entail costs which most of us happily bear. But these costs dont explain why hydro bills are so high.

 

We want to show you that most of the costs have nothing to do with the generation of electricity. The government has buried them within your hydro bill and expects you to pay them.

 

Extraneous charges are hidden under three lines in your hydro bill: Electricity, delivery, and regulatory. Lets have a closer look at these.

 

ELECTRICITY

 

There is a charge for spilling water instead of running it through the turbines. There is also a fuel cost for the spilled water.

 

Ratepayers are even charged when wind power is not needed but could be generated by the provinces expensive wind developments. We also pay for the cost of meteorological stations used to estimate the number of kilowatt hours of electricity which those wind turbines might have produced.

 

You also pay for solar panels on your neighbours roof. Owners of solar panels are paid up to 80 cents a kWh, but only pay time-of-use rates for their consumption.

 

When power is sold off to other jurisdictions, you are charged for the difference between the cost of generating the power and the price at which it is sold. This means paying for places like New York and Michigan to take our surplus power. In 2015 this was enough to power two million Ontario homes.

 

DELIVERY

 

When electricity travels a long distance, a certain amount of power is lost. This can be anything from a 2% to a 9% loss. But you are still charged for that lost, unused power.

 

If you reduce your consumption, your local distribution company loses revenue. The OEB will grant a rate increase to cover the lost revenue which drives up the delivery cost even further.

 

You also pay for those $4 coupons enticing you to buy LED bulbs, and city-dwellers pay extra to subsidize delivery costs for rural and remote customers.

 

REGULATOR

 

The regulatory line on your bill includes operating costs of the Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO). The IESO contracted for wind and solar power generation. IESOs management costs ($180 million) and development of the electricity grid ($1.5 billion) are also included. The costs to hook up your neighbours solar panels to the electricity grid are also included here.

 

None of this is fair.

 

If secret costs were attached to any other product or service, there would be outrage and the Competition Bureau would undoubtedly come crashing down on the offending company. Just think of a food store that charged you more for buying less milk, or a gas station that charged you for gas that you didnt spill.

 

Despite government talking-points, Ontario is in the grip of an energy crisis. Tinkering around the margins isnt going to help.

 

If weve shown anything here, its that Ontarios electricity system needs a complete and fundamental overhaul.

 

MacLaren is a member of the Ontario Progressive Conservatives and the MPP for Carleton-Mississippi Mills. Gallant is an energy watchdog and retired banking executive.

[Mister G]

And now you know one of the reasons the US went in a different direction a couple of weeks ago....

[Tjames09]

If people vote Liberal for the next provincial election than people don't care or aren't paying attention to what's going on. I can't believe they were voted back in after starting a power plant and cancelling it and throwing away tons of tax payer money.

[manitoubass2]

Pull down pants, cuff, bendover cough

 

No vaseline and no permission

[BillM]

Looks like Wynne is backtracking..... Not surprised. She needs to be sent to the glue factory.

 

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/11/19/premier-wynne-calls-high-electricity-prices-her-mistake.html

[KLINKER]

It was the PC under the reformer Mike Harris that started the miss handling of Ontario Hydro and handed the keys over to the Liberals so I guess that all we got left is the NDP, maybe they will hire someone to run Ontario Hydro independent of the gov. once again .

[smitty55]

Yea sure, now Winnie admits she made a mistake with hydro rates. I call Bull. She knew damn well what she was doing and didn't care. Most of all it wasn't a mistake, it was incompetence, plain and simple. That and her green ideology.

 

Cheers

[Jds63]

" When power is sold off to other jurisdictions, you are charged for the difference between the cost of generating the power and the price at which it is sold. This means paying for places like New York and Michigan to take our surplus power. In 2015 this was enough to power two million Ontario homes."

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This kind of stuff I just can't even understand how they can get away with it....

 

There was a guy fighting Hydro One against having to pay them for delivery charges at his cottage when he had no electricity for a few months, they are claiming that the charges are for the poles and lines even though he had no electricity coming into his cottage ...

 

It is my understanding that OPG regularly discharges surplus energy into the Great Lakes at night due to lower consumption, because there is no way to store it... correct me if I'm wrong ....so why are wind turbines going up, who is paying for this and where is the funding coming from ?

[Fisherman]

When all else fails, blame Mike.

[zenon11]

I don't like to comment on stuff I know nothing about (which is why I don't comment on any of the fishing threads as I have no idea what I'm doing) but I know a little about how the electricity system works. One thing to remember about this article is who is writing it. You can twist anything to fit your agenda and obviously this conservative MP wanted it to fit his which is fair enough, but here are some other points.

 

Think of the electricity system as a highway. You have to have enough supply (think of it as lanes in the road) as demand (traffic). So when they are peak times (rush hour) you build enough lanes to meet demand (number of cars on the road). Unfortunately when there is less demand (middle of the day), you still have just as many lanes available to maintain etc, even though you don't need them at that time. It's the same with power; even though you don't need it, you still have to be able to have it on hand for those peak times. Similarly you keep paying your plows and salters for the roads even if you don't use them. That's why sometimes you have to sell power to other jurisdictions at a loss when you don't need it. Mind you the province also sells power at a profit, so it's not always at a loss like the article implies. Last time I checked the OEB stats the province made money, but that may have changed.

[zenon11]

With regards to why more renewable power is going up when we have this surplus of power, let's go back to the highway analogy. If you can spread out when people use the roads (like spreading out power use through time of use) you need less lanes to maintain and can have cheaper roads. As our current power plants need replacement, if you can lower the amount of power needed to meet peak demand, you can have less generating stations. The province is moving towards renewable sources as the replacement for current generating sources, while lowering peak demand through time of use pricing.

 

Sorry if what I'm saying makes no sense. I'm on my phone and it's hard to go up and see what u wrote.

Edited November 21, 2016 by zenon11

[DRIFTER_016]

Sorry but Ontario's power costing nearly as much as our power in the NWT is ridiculous!!!!

With the tax base in Ontario the cost should be one of the lowest in the country instead of second highest in the country.

You are being hosed by the liberals.

They do after all have to pay for all of their spending don't they?

[SmokestackLightnin]

Yea sure, now Winnie admits she made a mistake with hydro rates. I call Bull. She knew damn well what she was doing and didn't care. Most of all it wasn't a mistake, it was incompetence, plain and simple. That and her green ideology.

 

Cheers

I think she's acting more like a lame duck Premier. She'll take the blame for the electricity problem, back out of the next election and then the party runs on the platform that they will fix the problem.

[Jds63]

Thanks for the info Z...

I'm the first to admit I'm no expert on the subject but I did look at my bills from 10 yrs ago to now and yes they have more than doubled and my usage has gone down ... lol

I am willing to suck it up and pay for infrastructure fees but there really needs to be a provincial watchdog or regulator representing the average Consumer...

The electricity rates is also an issue with attracting manufacturers to Ontario.

Actually ..... $&!/##, my electricity bill from 10 yrs ago has more than tripled not doubled ...

Edited November 21, 2016 by jds63

[Ronzo]

Pull down pants, cuff, bendover cough

 

No vaseline and no permission

 

This.

 

If you're ever looking for a perfect demonstration of how a corporation works over the public to appease shareholders and improve profits look no further than hydro.

[Dara]

If she is so bad, why did she just get re elected in ottawa-Vanier by election...hmmmm?

[dave524]

If she is so bad, why did she just get re elected in ottawa-Vanier by election...hmmmm?

 

The bye election in my riding the Liberals were held to just under 15 % of the popular vote and the PC's had about 55 % with the Dippers coming in a distant second at 25 %. Ottawa Vanier I understand is largely French and probably a lot of federal government Liberal trough feeders there.

Edited November 21, 2016 by dave524

[Mister G]

If she is so bad, why did she just get re elected in ottawa-Vanier by election...hmmmm?

It just proves that liberals do in fact have a mental disorder.

[Dara]

 

The bye election in my riding the Liberals were held to just under 15 % of the popular vote and the PC's had about 55 % with the Dippers coming in a distant second at 25 %. Ottawa Vanier I understand is largely French and probably a lot of federal government Liberal trough feeders there.

Kathleen isn't French or Federal..she is just well loved

[jimmer]

I don't like the back door deals they make that causes an increase. I don't believe a word any politician says.

[dave524]

Kathleen isn't French or Federal..she is just well loved

 

Not where I live. We were less than a year from breaking ground on a new West Lincoln Hospital until she put a stop to it.

Edited November 21, 2016 by dave524

[glen]

Don't over think it.

 

They are stealing your money.

 

One day I will cut the power lines to my house.

[zenon11]

Thanks for the info Z...

I'm the first to admit I'm no expert on the subject but I did look at my bills from 10 yrs ago to now and yes they have more than doubled and my usage has gone down ... lol

I am willing to suck it up and pay for infrastructure fees but there really needs to be a provincial watchdog or regulator representing the average Consumer...

The electricity rates is also an issue with attracting manufacturers to Ontario.

Actually ..... $&!/##, my electricity bill from 10 yrs ago has more than tripled not doubled ...

Bills have definitely gone up and will continue to go that way for the foreseeable future. The province is under going a transition to a more renewable and smarter grid, which definitely comes at a cost. The way I see it is as an investment in the future. Less polluting sources of power means less illness (asthma, etc) and less healthcare spending. It may cost more, but if I get sick less it's worth it to me.

[aplumma]

I have no expertise on this subject. When we USA apply for power to our house we are building we get an estimate on how much electricity that we are forcasted to use in 5 years. They then figure the cost of installing a line and meter to the house. You then pay the difference between the two numbers. I built my house and to bury a line it was over $5,000.00 additional but to run it on poles it was free. Now this is in a 1 acre or greater area so it is rural by definition. I have seen up North where electricity is run to islands and shacks that down here it would be so cost prohibitive to build just from the utilities aspect. To reach some of those areas it must cost a fortune since so much of Canada Cottage country is spread out. I can see it as an expensive overhead but not one that should be heaped on the areas that have high density.

 

 

Art

[Dara]

Its nice she admitted that she made a mistake.

They are also currently erecting a solar farm on the reserve here.