Jds63 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 I'm not sure political party bashing is really going to help any of us ... the main drivers to price increases is not political ... I found this article that is very informative but none the less not going to help lower my bill. ------------------------------------------------------ Raging about the high cost of electricity is an Ontario pastime. But do subscribers truly understand whats causing the price hikes? More at: http://tvo.org/article/current-affairs/the-next-ontario/what-ontarians-dont-know-about-rising-hydro-rates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dara Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) Bills have definitely gone up and will continue to go that way for the foreseeable future. The province is under going a transition to a more renewable and smarter grid, which definitely comes at a cost. The way I see it is as an investment in the future. Less polluting sources of power means less illness (asthma, etc) and less healthcare spending. It may cost more, but if I get sick less it's worth it to me. Thats right...over 60% nuclear, 24%hydro and 10% natural gas and less than 6% wind and solar6% solar biomas, other...yup, that explains the excessive cost increases...and much cleaner air there..fixed..picky picky picky Edited November 21, 2016 by Dara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 I'm not sure political party bashing is really going to help any of us ... Sadly, it helps the abusers (pols) themselves when the victims (us) are too busy blaming the "other party" to see we're all being played. All these years later Sun Tzu still has it right, divide and conquer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister G Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Thats right...over 60% nuclear, 20%hydro and 28% natural gas and less than 2% wind and solar...yup, that explains the excessive cost increases...and much cleaner air Do you just make this stuff up.............because that adds up.............to.........110% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 It was the PC under the reformer Mike Harris that started the miss handling of Ontario Hydro and handed the keys over to the Liberals so I guess that all we got left is the NDP, maybe they will hire someone to run Ontario Hydro independent of the gov. once again . It's a little late to be blaming Harris for the province's problems. And no, it wasn't Harris who was the first to mishandle Hydro. They already had about $38 billion in debt when he became premier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dara Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Do you just make this stuff up.............because that adds up.............to.........110% lazy..just going from memory..I had gas a bit high and hot air a bit low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dara Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 It's a little late to be blaming Harris for the province's problems. And no, it wasn't Harris who was the first to mishandle Hydro. They already had about $38 billion in debt when he became premier. Hey, he started it..its not the Libs fault they couldn't fix it in 13 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmer Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 ^^^^ LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister G Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 lazy..just going from memory..I had gas a bit high and hot air a bit low LOL.......that's fine.......just had to pick on you with that one.....LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumma Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Sadly, it helps the abusers (pols) themselves when the victims (us) are too busy blaming the "other party" to see we're all being played. All these years later Sun Tzu still has it right, divide and conquer. I thought i was the only person who has read The art of War. Read The lost arts of war by Dr. HahaLung he goes thru history and brings forth quite a few people who you did not think have the philosophy behind their actions. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 I have no expertise on this subject. When we USA apply for power to our house we are building we get an estimate on how much electricity that we are forcasted to use in 5 years. They then figure the cost of installing a line and meter to the house. You then pay the difference between the two numbers. I built my house and to bury a line it was over $5,000.00 additional but to run it on poles it was free. Now this is in a 1 acre or greater area so it is rural by definition. I have seen up North where electricity is run to islands and shacks that down here it would be so cost prohibitive to build just from the utilities aspect. To reach some of those areas it must cost a fortune since so much of Canada Cottage country is spread out. I can see it as an expensive overhead but not one that should be heaped on the areas that have high density. Art That's another good point. I suspect that the city folks are helping to pay for the installation costs for remote customers. Our telephone bills work like that. People in cities pay a surcharge on their bills so that rural areas can have affordable telephone bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Thats right...over 60% nuclear, 24%hydro and 10% natural gas and less than 6% wind and solar6% solar biomas, other...yup, that explains the excessive cost increases...and much cleaner air there..fixed..picky picky picky It doesn't explain the much cleaner air; but it does account for a large part of the increase in prices. The 6% coming from wind and solar accounts for more than 6% of the costs. The auditor general found that 56% of the increase in prices was due to green energy. Hey, he started it..its not the Libs fault they couldn't fix it in 13 years The problems go back at least to William Davis; if not sooner. Harris may have been the first to try and do something about it. I am going by memory, but I think the debt was $38 billion. That means that the cost of providing the electricity was $38 billion more than the revenue from billing for usage. A part of the increase in prices is a change from only paying a portion of the cost to paying the full cost plus debt retirement charge. The debt retirement charge means that people today are paying for electricity that was under billed 20 or more years ago. I.e. my debt retirement charge covers the discount that my grandmother got on her bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dara Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 It doesn't explain the much cleaner air; but it does account for a large part of the increase in prices. The 6% coming from wind and solar accounts for more than 6% of the costs. The auditor general found that 56% of the increase in prices was due to green energy. The problems go back at least to William Davis; if not sooner. Harris may have been the first to try and do something about it. I am going by memory, but I think the debt was $38 billion. That means that the cost of providing the electricity was $38 billion more than the revenue from billing for usage. A part of the increase in prices is a change from only paying a portion of the cost to paying the full cost plus debt retirement charge. The debt retirement charge means that people today are paying for electricity that was under billed 20 or more years ago. I.e. my debt retirement charge covers the discount that my grandmother got on her bills. When the electricity plants were built we borrowed money for them. Just like you borrow to Buy a house Then we sold the plants for less than we paid. You know, the smart way So then we had to pay the debt on what we gave away. Except dalton wynne snuck in a bunch of new debt. The best part is we paid tax on the borrowed money. Think about it. You get a car loan and the tax is included. There is no tax on your monthly payment but there is federal and provincial tax on our loan payments.. Sounds super crooked to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Your grandma got a discount on electricity? Are you sure about that. Can I see a bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) I thought i was the only person who has read The art of War. Read The lost arts of war by Dr. HahaLung he goes thru history and brings forth quite a few people who you did not think have the philosophy behind their actions. Art 99.9% of politicians This is what happens when corporate mates with government. Back door dealings are a fact. Shes only apologizing in just. Its not sincere. She is set, and im sure alot of her family/friends/political ties are as well. That being said, I must be a distant relative?(please dont kill me) Im the only person I know that has a reasonable, even cheap bill(knock on wood) *I pay about $170-210 per month AND I HAVE 10 PEOPLE LIVING IN MY HOUSE Edited November 21, 2016 by manitoubass2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeds Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 I'm not particularly fond of any political party but do some of you guys honestly think that should the conservatives make their way into power your going to see your bills plummet to something you find reasonable? Do you really, honestly believe that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 I'm not particularly fond of any political party but do some of you guys honestly think that should the conservatives make their way into power your going to see your bills plummet to something you find reasonable? Do you really, honestly believe that? They won't go down; but they may stop doubling every 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeds Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 For how long have they been doubling every ten years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 When the electricity plants were built we borrowed money for them. Just like you borrow to Buy a house Then we sold the plants for less than we paid. You know, the smart way So then we had to pay the debt on what we gave away. Except dalton wynne snuck in a bunch of new debt. The best part is we paid tax on the borrowed money. Think about it. You get a car loan and the tax is included. There is no tax on your monthly payment but there is federal and provincial tax on our loan payments.. Sounds super crooked to me That may have contribute, but artificially low rates were a factor too. Much of the debt would have been paid off if the rates had covered all costs; debt repayment is one of the costs that need to factored into the rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister G Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 Thats right...over 60% nuclear, 24%hydro and 10% natural gas and less than 6% wind and solar6% solar biomas, other...yup, that explains the excessive cost increases...and much cleaner air there..fixed..picky picky picky You bought a calculator, didn't you......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigugli Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 Not where I live. We were less than a year from breaking ground on a new West Lincoln Hospital until she put a stop to it. West Lincoln was doomed the day they announced plans for the new St Catharines hospital. At the time nobody wanted to believe that. West Lincoln's board knew and kept their mouths shut, and kept fundraising for a new hospital in spite of that. That way they kept their nice plumb positions. That plan you get to thank McGuinty for. Wynne was merely the messenger of a done deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) West Lincoln was doomed the day they announced plans for the new St Catharines hospital. At the time nobody wanted to believe that. West Lincoln's board knew and kept their mouths shut, and kept fundraising for a new hospital in spite of that. That way they kept their nice plumb positions. That plan you get to thank McGuinty for. Wynne was merely the messenger of a done deal. West Lincoln Memorial is actually under the Hamilton Health Sciences umbrella and system and a teaching hospital for McMaster, my wife and I are sent to Mac for cat scans and specialty stuff, I don't see the StKitts hospital affecting the decision. Edit: Most here interpret the cancellation as a spiteful act as this was Hudaks riding until recently and over the years solidly Conservative both federally and provincially and resounding Conservative as of the recent bye election. Edited November 22, 2016 by dave524 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) Your grandma got a discount on electricity? Are you sure about that. Can I see a bill. Seeing the bill won't help. As I explained earlier, rates in the past didn't cover the cost of providing the electricity; I consider that a discount. Now, in addition to paying for the cost of electricity, we have to pay a debt retirement charge to offset the artificially low rates (aka discount) that previous customers received. For how long have they been doubling every ten years? Since about the time that the McGuinty/Wynne Liberals have been in power. Edited November 22, 2016 by JohnBacon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigugli Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 West Lincoln Memorial is actually under the Hamilton Health Sciences umbrella and system and a teaching hospital for McMaster, my wife and I are sent to Mac for cat scans and specialty stuff, I don't see the StKitts hospital affecting the decision. West Lincoln was left with the choices of merging with Niagara Health, merging with with Hamilton Health, or closing. The province was not going to spend money on rebuilding a small hospital. The same thing was done to the other small hospitals in the Niagara region. Just ask people in Ft Erie, Pt Colborne or Welland. And those hospitals and their communities did not get a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirCranksalot Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 Seeing the bill won't help. As I explained earlier, rates in the past didn't cover the cost of providing the electricity; I consider that a discount. Now, in addition to paying for the cost of electricity, we have to pay a debt retirement charge to offset the artificially low rates (aka discount) that previous customers received. This comment is right on! Rates were kept too low for too long. Sooner or later we have to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now