Marc Thorpe and Muskies

[Roy]

Yeah I remember, Paul. We're old people and sometimes can't do things for ourselves so Marc drops by to bring us meals and such.

[Skipper D]

Hey ! is there room here for me to sit down and learn some thing from all this , or is this private stuff ...........

[mercman]

We're old people and sometimes can't do things for ourselves so Marc drops by to bring us meals and such.

 

 

Now who's the nutcase?

Edited July 26, 2012 by mercman

[mike rousseau]

Cudo's to Marc for reviving a beutiful fish but would it not make more sense to just not target them when its stupid hot out?

 

Joseph

 

It's how he pays his bills... And he's probably booked way in advance because of his reputation.... So to cancel 2-3 weeks of bookings your talking about a good chunk of his annual income...

 

He is very experienced and will obviously go to great lengths to ensure the health of the fish like most musky anglers....

 

...

Edited July 26, 2012 by Musky Mike

[Hairpy]

It's how he pays his bills... And he's probably booked way in advance because of his reputation.... So to cancel 2-3 weeks of bookings your talking about a good chunk of his annual income...

 

He is very experienced and will obviously go to great lengths to ensure the health of the fish like most musky anglers....

 

...

 

So because its HIS liveleyhood its OK to target fish knowing that it could be detrimental to the fish even though the intention is catch and release? I'm confused

[BillM]

So because its HIS liveleyhood its OK to target fish knowing that it could be detrimental to the fish even though the intention is catch and release? I'm confused

 

Are you really trying to bash one of the most well respected muskie guides in this province? Goodluck. How do you know this fish wasn't taken off a deep weedline in 30ft of water? And because it didn't release right away he jumps into the shallows in order to revive it?

 

Let the man chime in if he wants before you start spouting off.

Edited July 27, 2012 by BillM

[ehg]

How do you know this fish wasn't taken off a deep weedline in 30ft of water? And because it didn't release right away he jumps into the shallows in order to revive it?

 

Let the man chime in if he wants before you start spouting off.

 

Ya wow, it is like winternet in summer.

 

If you go down 10-20 ft.the water temperature really drops. Especially down St. Lawrence way.

Lots of opinions from folks lacking experience. Marc Thorpe deserves way better.

[Marc Thorpe]

Morning all

Tks Roy for sharing the education.

Let me first start by saying,yes pics are cool but in fact nothing glorious or rewarding about having to take such time in revival of fish this way.

It needs to be done at times

 

In the last 25 years of guiding,I have developed several methods and techniques for reviving fish with different issues such as swim bladder issues.

It has nothing to do with WARM water or DEEP water

I will explain further

I like to pride myself on sharing and helping establish handling and release methods that most of today's anglers utilize,I have even established with wildlife techs handling protocols during netting studies on various species.

Nice thing is that fish handling overall is much better than it ever has been in all aspects.

Admittingly Pete Maina was one of leading folks in this in which in a way ,he allowed me the lead to further extend his education

 

In warm water or big waves,we dont take fish out of the water,simply Low dissolved oxygen in warm water temps and bouncing around in big waves induces stress.

Warm water is relative,when water reach above 74 ,I consider it warm

In this case we were fishing 75 degrees with good dissolved oxygen levels.

Its not only warm water ,its warm air

Being responsible is not taking fish out of water if 1 or 2 issues occur(warm water or/and warm air)

 

I dont allow fish that show signs of stress out of the water either under ideal conditions either.

Fish under stress generally show rosy flanks

 

Terry,Ironically there is something to your comment.

Understanding physiological signs and behavior is part of somehow understanding what the fish is going through and what needs to be done.(lots of reading during the winter)

Strangely as it sounds,yes your state of being is of great importance around all living matter,more so than people would imagine.You cant panic and must be calm

Not just for dogs

Terry there are differences between male and female behaviors,females being much more calm and somehow (in a human way of seeing things)aware of what is being done,

Males generally need more leading to not stray away before being able to stabilize themselves.

I suspect a predatory instinct may play a role in males behavior in regards to my presence.

 

Swim bladders issues are complex,not quite fully understood

In most case ,holding on till the fish swims off generally works out

Most times the fish will remain at surface some 20 to 30 minutes before swimming down.

Every so often a couple need more help.

To understand swim bladder issues is somewhat like the bends.

Unlike humans the bends generally affects the blood,swim bladders are used for regulating pressure in great depths ( commonly over 30 feet,pressure does not change drastically from surface to 32 feet in one shot but more so in a gradual way ,approximately every 6 feet),water density during colds water periods and current.

Most fish during cold water periods and depth use extensively there swim bladders to compensate pressure and water density ,which is why most times it is fully inflated with air.

 

In Current the swim bladders is partially filled with air,making matters a bit more complex.

In most species swim bladders are oval and in with internal organs.

In muskies( esox family) the swim bladder is elongated an runs along the spine and when experiencing swim bladders issues ,the bladder actually pushes down on organs which in turn pushes down on the internal organs making the fish go belly up.

 

When the fish does not seem to respond in stabilizing itself ,or stress from trying to go down when it cannot.The only solutions I have found and read somewhat about on other species is making them swim to stabilize and shake off the effects of destabilization from the swim bladder. Swimming slow along seems to lower stress levels and allow the fish to rid itself of air which I suspect is trapped from collapsed swim bladders as they lunge up to grab the bait.

Strangely they seem to display awareness of what is trying to be done(females especially),in most cases are very aware of your presence and seem to follow the lead.

Understanding physiological displays and watching stress levels lower is much more complex.

When the fish becomes relatively fine,it generally will slowly swim away

 

It may take somewhere between 20 minutes and 2 hrs at times.

24 to 72 hrs is what I suspect is the recovery period from undergoing such a stressful ordeal,it applies to all captures with or without swim bladder issues.

Our tagging study has shown that post mortal release seems to occur between 24 and 72 hrs but has been as much as 6 days!!!!

 

Once again this has nothing to do with depth,most fish are caught well above 30 feet

casting or trolling have no affect on the issue,its an individual issue.

 

Fish that show signs of swim bladders issues should NEVER be taking out of the water

 

My sincere hopes for the species is that in water shots become the norm under all conditions.

 

C&R has evolved and will continue to evolve,maybe someday we will see more in water shots and less out of water handling.

 

Roy you are always welcome in sharing education with OFC

I apologies for my lack of presence

Like most Life has a way of keeping us busy

 

 

Something to consider for those who raise Eyebrows at this

 

You know my name,not my past

You know what I do,but what what I have gone through

what I share is what I have learned

Edited July 27, 2012 by marc thorpe

[John]

Thank you for that Marc. I have only had he pleasure of fishing with you once but learned a lifetime of knowledge in just two days. Be well my friend.

[Roy]

Yes, thanks Marc. I didn't know whether you'd have time to respond so soon. By the sounds of things, I'll have to call room service and see if I can order up several more years on this earth to learn....maybe a speed reading course and a few more weeks on the water with you. Then again, I may not be cut out for this stuff.

[Skipper D]

Am glad i stuck around on this one , thank you Marc for sharing what you have learned with those here who want to know more , your info here will greatly efect the way i think about the way i do my C&R from now on . Thank you again ......... Skipper .

[NAW]

Thanks for the detailed response Marc.

 

I know several of us where checking the posts a few times a day hoping you would find some time to make some comments.

[Hairpy]

Bill i'm not bashing Marc , do you fish the grand when its 90 degrees outside? Wouldn't it be kind of the same thing?

[landry]

Bill i'm not bashing Marc , do you fish the grand when its 90 degrees outside? Wouldn't it be kind of the same thing?

 

It's fishing.

It's not nice or responsible to stick fish with hooks at any time of year.

I will likely continue to fish in the summer and water release fish. I will avoid shallow areas if that helps but I will continue to fish this summer.

[Terry]

Bill i'm not bashing Marc , do you fish the grand when its 90 degrees outside? Wouldn't it be kind of the same thing?

 

I would think that by that standard, the MNR should put a ban on all fishing for all types of fish once the water temp reaches a certain temp.

 

I can just see it now, every fisherman in ontario waiting for the water temps to drop so they can fish again

[Live2fish85]

Bill i'm not bashing Marc , do you fish the grand when its 90 degrees outside? Wouldn't it be kind of the same thing?

 

I see tons of people fishing the grand on some of the hottest days while on the way to the Erie.

 

I don't personally think you know what you are talking about, the man explains his methods and shared his knowledge on his ways and you still think you know more. He obviously go the extra mile to make sure that he can see the fish swim away.

 

Maybe you should give up fishing for the summer and just let the people do as they would like lol. Most real fisherman would want to makes sure that a fiah swims away if they are fishing C&R.

 

Thanks for sharing the knowledge with us Marc.

[esoxansteel]

Yes thanx for posting Roy on Marcs release, and Marc for your lifetime of knowlege pursueing these great fish which your willing to share with us all on OFC, so that the survival of this top predator is of uptmost importance.

 

This week I caught a mid 40 inch Musky, with only 2 hook points in the fish, i cut the hook with the knipex, with the fish solely in the water, and never took the fish out of the water, as i was by myself and prefer in the water shots of release shots anyways, anticipating an easy release, as the hook was out in probably 5 seconds, and the fight was short as i was concentrating on them with proper musky equipment, the fish did fool me, as it showed no signs of stress ie red flanks and fins etc. I spent 1 hour and 20 minutes with this fish hanging over the gunnels of my boat that time to ensure its safe release, the water temp was 76 degrees in this case, at that point as my body was sore from bouncing up and down on the gunnels, i did not pursue muskies the rest of the week, the fish will tell you when there ready to go, you dont tell them, you will loose some fishing time, but seeing this great fish swim away is a reward like nothin else.

[johnnyb]

Thanks for posting Marc.....passion, experience and a lot of acquired knowledge clearly shine through in your words....I understand why you have the reputation that you do

 

 

[fishnsled]

Excellent information Marc, thank you for taking the time to post it.

 

I've certainly spent up to an hour with a fish before feeling comfortable that it would be fine but had no idea about the mortal release rate taking up to 6 days. (November fish, water temps in the 40's, short fight from a casting fish and have no idea why she took so long to revive.) In my 25+ years of musky fishing I have yet to have a fish that didn't swim away and have always wondered if they made it in the days ahead. I guess I'll never know the answer to that question but still feel comfortable in knowing that I did all that I could with the knowledge I had at the time. Thanks for increasing my knowledge a bit more today.

[lew]

I was casting a few years back and had a musky hit only about 10' from the boat and just under the surface. I got her in quick and popped the hooks easily, but when I released her she couldn't get below the surface. I was holding her tail until she swam off strong but she just stayed on top.

 

It was almost dark when I got her, and I used my flashlight and followed her with my troll motor for more than 2 hours until my battery died.

 

She appeared healthy and strong and was having no problems swimming, but after I couldn't follow her in the dark I decided there was nothing else I could do for her and just headed in.

 

I went back early the next morning and she was no where in sight, so hopefully she eventually got down deep and did OK.

[outllaw]

its a fish. they do die. trying your best is all you can do.knowledge is key. as for me i am recovering from cracked ribs and torn tendon from a reevive and release.. every case has its differences. as long as guys do their best the fisheries will do well.

[mistyriver1]

Great read Marc, thanks for that. I was wondering what you would consider "warm" water and you answered that and a whole lot more.

 

Jim

[aplumma]

Once again Marc you prove that you have not only a great demeanor and a friendly smile but a lifetime of knowledge. While most of us fish for muskies as a form of recreation, which has no penalty for not catching a fish. When it is your living you have proven that with knowledge and dedication you can put a fish of the lifetime in someones memory without hurting the reason you can make a living in a manner you have chosen. I have followed Pete Mania as well and when the two of you get into a room together I envy anyone else who is in the room to listen to the knowledge that is present.

 

 

Art

[mike rousseau]

thanks marc... very good information for all there....

 

 

and thanks roy for gently pushing marc to educate everyone...

 

marc is an angler to look up to and we can all learn a LOT from him

[Roy]

Thanks guys for keeping this one on the right path.

 

And thanks Mike, you haven't far to go, you'll be as hot as anyone else out there.

 

Art, you're absolutely right! You said, "I have followed Pete Mania as well and when the two of you get into a room together I envy anyone else who is in the room to listen to the knowledge that is present." I've been fortunate and have had the privilege of doing that in my home with an added bonus. John Gillespie of Waters and Woods (52 shows a year ain't no chicken scratch!) As stern as I look in the pic, I LMAO all the time they were there and learned a ton of stuff. So, from left to right we have Marc, Pete, John and their cameraman. It was just a wonderful day.