Simcoe ice rescue

[Headhunter]

https://barrie.ctvnews.ca/trio-rescued-from-lake-simcoe-after-off-road-vehicle-plunges-through-ice-1.6749878

HH

[Barry Willis]

They are very lucky and should have known better. It happens all to often.

[410001661]

Every year between ice rescues and people parking on the ice (and losing their vehicles in the water) - when will people figure it out???

[Terry]

People will never figure it out

where the off road vehicle went through they should have known

but many parts of the lake are more then safe for vehicles  Where I fish I will not drive my UTV  and a couple of spots I fish I don’t think I will walk out till we get colder or if we get colder weather 

just a nasty year for fishermen 

[Headhunter]

Thoughts on whether or not the fisherman should be given the bill for their rescue?

HH

[Barry Willis]

Absolutely HH, this is something the Government is considering out here in Alberta. There are several rescues every year involving skiers going out of bounds where it is clearly marked and on the ski resort and Government web sites to avoid because of the risk of creating an avalanche. In attempting a rescue other skiers put their life at risk and of course helicopters are involved as well. The out come usually involves fatalities. And again they should know better, to quote Terry, they will never figure it out.

[AKRISONER]

21 minutes ago, Barry Willis said:

Absolutely HH, this is something the Government is considering out here in Alberta. There are several rescues every year involving skiers going out of bounds where it is clearly marked and on the ski resort and Government web sites to avoid because of the risk of creating an avalanche. In attempting a rescue other skiers put their life at risk and of course helicopters are involved as well. The out come usually involves fatalities. And again they should know better, to quote Terry, they will never figure it out.

slippery slope barry, without having an appreciation for the sport. Much like any outdoorsmen, preparation is key, but narrative is also important. All too common for a media outlet to put a mountaineer on blast for requiring rescue, but unforeseen circumstances happen that no amount of preparation can prevent.

In the case of "out of bounds skiing" Ski touring and mountaineering is a very common pass time (one that I have personally participated in) now of course, I personally take all precautions, I have never gone ski touring without a "guide" be it a professional or my cousin, all of which are avalanche are Avalanche Safety Trained level 2 or higher.

All applicable gear is carried, including probe, shovel and beacon. 

Sure enough during a tour in the mountains of japan a member of my group broke their tib/fib after colliding with a tree. We then spent 6 hours manually lowering the person off of a mountain to a lower altitude where a rescue team could provide service. 

Is that individual not worthy of rescue, or due to pay the bill? Where does the limitation exist for that then? Is any fisherman who runs into engine trouble on lake ontario also expected to front the bill for emergency services? What about people that get into car crashes on the highway, should they have not been driving?

Dont get me wrong here, I personally take far more precaution when ice fishing then the individuals seemingly that required rescue, but things also happen out there, those same people very likely drove there ATV to their fishing spot that morning, perhaps even had been fishing multiple days driving to the same spot without issue, only to attempt to return home and have a crack form that caused them to go in. Ive seen it myself multiple times, go out in the morning on seemingly safe fast ice, only to be confronted with a 8 foot wide crack in the ice on the way home...or one time in parry sound, heading out in the morning on nearly 2 feet of ice, to return in the afternoon to find that somehow the last 500 meter stretch of ice past a particular point had vanished and floated away.

These stories to make great headlines though. I personally like seeing people get off their phones and get outside, its probably cheaper long term to have people out and active rather than fat and inside creating a future burden on our healthcare system.

[Barry Willis]

That is a very good story, I enjoyed it, and I under stand accidents happen but when it comes down to up right ignorance and knowingly putting their life and others at risk, I don't know. Of course regardless of the circumstance every effort should be made and are made to rescue them of course. 

 

[Terry]

Yeah my thoughts are if everyone pays for emergency services then they should pay

but if not every emergency receives a bill then why should ice fishermen 

more skateboarders , skiers, boaters , hockey players off-road bikers hikers cars and fat people need emergency services then ice fishermen so why do people seem to jump all over ice fishermen 

[lew]

I agree with you 100% Terry, Emergency Service are in business for a reason and that reason is to help people when they get in trouble, whether it's through carelessness, misadventure, bad luck or just plain being stupid.

Every year people get injured or killed doing crazy stuff and most times Emergency Service is there to help but it doesn't mean they also need to be punished for whatever they did.

 

[misfish]

Plunged is a bit of a over reaction and as the norm,the news relished the whole thing. It was an Argo that broke through. BROKE through the ice. It was floating there and unable to get out.

Well said Terry and Lew. Crap happens.

There was a report from an operator saying they were on a solid 6-8 inches of ice,but is warning that once you pass a crack in the area,it,s 2".

[porkpie]

If I need to be rescued I expect to be rescued.  If I’m getting a bill, I want everyone who drives in a blizzard, smacks into a tree skiing, required an open water rescue during boating season,  slips on a banana peel, or gets lost in the woods to foot the bill for their rescue.  Life isn’t bubble wrapped and crap happens.  And it happens in many different pursuits of happiness and it often puts emergency services in harms way.  It’s certainly not restricted to ice fishermen.

Edited February 2 by porkpie

[lew]

3 hours ago, porkpie said:

 Life isn’t bubble wrapped and crap happens.  

I'm sure everyone has heard about the recent nonsense in Toronto where the so-called powers that be have actually banned tobogganing in 45 parks because someone may get injured sliding down a hill having fun the way kids have done forever.

Tough to even comprehend how some of these people made it to adulthood.

[BITEME]

you cant fix stupid!

but if that is the way it is I'm very appreciative for Emergency service coverage for all. I have to agree on no matter how stupid, the service is there.

don't get me started on tobogganing

thanks to all past present and in advance future Emergency Service Units. BRAVO ZULU! 

[porkpie]

6 hours ago, lew said:

I'm sure everyone has heard about the recent nonsense in Toronto where the so-called powers that be have actually banned tobogganing in 45 parks because someone may get injured sliding down a hill having fun the way kids have done forever.

Tough to even comprehend how some of these people made it to adulthood.

Good grief… no I hadn’t heard that.  Life has gone weird.  I don’t envy the poor b@$stard that has to enforce that.

[Big Cliff]

First these guys were lucky it was an Argo, had it been a side by side the outcome could have been very different. Second, although an Argo will go almost anywhere, transitioning between water and ice takes some skill and experience, it is my understanding that these guys had little of either. They may not be the smartest dudes but they sure were lucky. 

 

As for all the rules and regulations (desigined to protect us) it won't be long before you have to take a carpentry course before you can use a hammer because you might hit your thumb with the hammer😲 

[akaShag]

18 hours ago, misfish said:

Plunged is a bit of a over reaction and as the norm,the news relished the whole thing. It was an Argo that broke through. BROKE through the ice. It was floating there and unable to get out.

Well said Terry and Lew. Crap happens.

There was a report from an operator saying they were on a solid 6-8 inches of ice,but is warning that once you pass a crack in the area,it,s 2".

I have driven Argos for years.  I bought the most recent one because they FLOAT, if I happen to go through the ice in it.  But from personal experience, it is VERY difficult to get an Argo (with wheels, or tracks, I have tried both), back onto ice if it has gone through.  As I have said a number of times, I won't drown but might die of hypothermia....

And so far this year the Argo has sat in my garage.  We do not have enough ice that I feel safe taking it out.

Doug

[misfish]

19 minutes ago, akaShag said:

And so far this year the Argo has sat in my garage.  We do not have enough ice that I feel safe taking it out.

There is a group that does recovery and they just announced they will not be helping anyone at this point due to unsafe ice conditions. This is a volunteer outfit and not risking lives.

[CrowMan]

2 hours ago, akaShag said:

I have driven Argos for years.  I bought the most recent one because they FLOAT, if I happen to go through the ice in it.  But from personal experience, it is VERY difficult to get an Argo (with wheels, or tracks, I have tried both), back onto ice if it has gone through.  As I have said a number of times, I won't drown but might die of hypothermia....

And so far this year the Argo has sat in my garage.  We do not have enough ice that I feel safe taking it out.

Doug

I guess this is how you do it. It would seem to me that screwing in a bunch of carbide studs into the treads would be helpful too.

My buddy has an Argo....great for getting into the back country that's swampy and full of beaver ponds. 

 

Edited February 2 by CrowMan

[Big Cliff]

2 hours ago, CrowMan said:

I guess this is how you do it. It would seem to me that screwing in a bunch of carbide studs into the treads would be helpful too.

My buddy has an Argo....great for getting into the back country that's swampy and full of beaver ponds. 

 

And that's about the best way to do it. 

Both my son and I have Argos and love them and IF I was going out onto the ice without using an outfitter I would use the Argo especially because it floats and would keep me dry. We are even out fitting ours with rope instead of the traditional cable because it's easier to handle and we are adding wireless remotes. 

[akaShag]

4 hours ago, CrowMan said:

I guess this is how you do it. It would seem to me that screwing in a bunch of carbide studs into the treads would be helpful too.

My buddy has an Argo....great for getting into the back country that's swampy and full of beaver ponds. 

 

That looks like Colin, who owns Sills Argo that produced the video apparently.  Not many people have more experience in an Argo than he does.    The Argo in the video has a rear winch installation, which is an  option (and which I did get).  Moving the winch requires serious effort, and in real life would be much harder, for me at least, than is shown. 

The one time I was bogged in my very first Argo, and I anchored my spud bar to use as a strong point for the winch, my spud bar BENT.

As I said previously, it is hellish difficult to get an Argo back up on ice once you break through.  But you won't drown.

Doug

[Terry]

From what I see in the video, if you have to hop out of the safety of your Argo to get out of your Argo out   Then the Argo is only safe if you stay in it and let rescuers save you and there is nothing wrong with that safe is safe  but jumping onto the ice where you just broke through doesn’t inspire me 

[Rustic-Fisher]

Was in Orillia last week teaching ice water rescue to various emergency services staff.  Usually as an instructor you’re able to read the ice and minimize your plunges  through it , (makes for a long day if your constantly crawling yourself out ) this year it’s been next to impossible to read , 5” in one spot then 1” a few meters over . 
Stay safe and dry fellas, it’s completely unsafe in many spots . 

 

[Big Cliff]

5 hours ago, Terry said:

From what I see in the video, if you have to hop out of the safety of your Argo to get out of your Argo out   Then the Argo is only safe if you stay in it and let rescuers save you and there is nothing wrong with that safe is safe  but jumping onto the ice where you just broke through doesn’t inspire me 

A 650 Argo weighs roughly 1200 lbs, if you drove over the ice before you broke through there's  a good chance the ice you just drove over will support the weight of a man. However you are right, if in doubt stay safe and wait for help.

[CrowMan]

Looks like the west side of Simcoe (which being shallower usually has more ice) is iffy too.

https://www.durhamradionews.com/archives/17989777

This has always been the weekend (weekend before the Super Bowl)  I host an "Ice Fishing Jam" at my cottage. I invite a bunch of buddies to stare down holes during the day and stare at cards at night...lots of food and refreshments included. However, as of this week a crack in the ice on my lake has slowly widened to the point that there's now a large stretch of open water right by our prime Crappie and Walleye spot. Not that there was much ice to begin with. So we cancelled...first time in 30 years !

I stayed in town and went out to the pier this morning with my feet firmly planted on terra firma. Kept a bright one for the smoker. One of the benefits of this shytty ice year is that I have yet to put away the long rods...and frankly in a lot of ways it's a lot more fun than pulling them up through a hole..