Leasing property

[pike slayer]

I came across a guy that owns a massive piece of land and for the past few years he has been leasing 1acre lots to build cabins on it. From searching the depths of the Internet it looks like he only does 20 year leases. This Monday I was heading up to check out the properties he has left. If I were to do this what type of rights would I have to never be kicked off of it?Would it fall under the landlord tenant act like renting an apartment? If the guy dies, goes bankrupt, selling the property,etc. Can the new person have me removed?

[Sinker]

That sounds very, very shady to me.

 

S.

[captpierre]

Reminds me of leased lots on native land on the Bruce Peninsula. Cottage owners that had 25 yr leases were kicked off their leased lots prematurely even though they had signed documents.

I dont remember the exact details but folks got pretty hot over this.

[grimsbylander]

You would certainly want to have something in the lease agreement that gives you first right of refusal to renew and at a maximum increase %. Without that, the owner has a property with a bunch of cabins in 20 years. Other options such as subletting would also be of interest...ie could you lease it out for a number of years if you got busy or sick and couldn't use it? It's not bad for someone that wants the property without the cash. The lease cost and cabin amortized over 20 years is probably a lot cheaper than coughing up the cash now. Obviously you forfeit ownership benefits.

[Garnet]

It's all in the contract. Hire a lawyer not from his town to go over it.

[cheaptackle]

Review the Landlord and Tenant Act with regard to land leases. While primarily detailing with mobile home style applications it also does apply to land leases similar to your situation. Like any laws there are exceptions, exclusions etc etc. Advice from a lawyer not affiliated with the Landlord (as has already been suggested) is most definitely a good choice - but ensure he/she practices in this field of law. There have been many situations where the Act has been found to apply just as there have been many where it wasn't. You can only protect yourself by being informed. I would suggest finding out as much as possible from an existing tenant, including copies of his lease documentation if possible, and relay all of that to your lawyer. With the long term considerations I'd advise it to be prudent to "waste" a few dollars on research before committing to a whole bunch of dollars over a long term for both lease costs and capital costs of building.

 

Good Luck!

 

Michael

Edited November 11, 2017 by cheaptackle

[the spirit of fishing]

There's good advice in the previous posts.

I have a friend who has a waterfront leased lot in Prince Edward County.

His father in law originally leased it about 40 years ago.

He passed away and his heirs were able to assume the lease and renew it a few years back.

They have a really good arrangement so it can work well but you need to make sure you know what to expect in various situations.

[aplumma]

You need to fully understand your rights before you place your house on someone else's property think of it being like a cemetery plot. Unless it is iron clad then you are possible liable to return the lot with you paying the cost of returning it back in the same condition aka no house on it. Personally I would pass on this before I spent a few thousand having a lawyer research and verify your rights.

 

 

Art

[woodenboater]

honestly, depending on how much the lease costs and the location (does it have killer views or near great fishing and hunting), I would think buying your own acreage will be better in the here and now and in the long run.master of your own domain so to speak. It will probably be cheaper as well imo

[Old Ironmaker]

There is a large area locally that people lease land here where several cottages are on, Featherstone Point. They fall under the same laws that trailer parks are on but with longer lease terms. The tenants must vacate from Dec 31st until April 1st. There has been very few problems there even after ownership changed last year. There are homes there now that are separate from the leased land, but the owner of Featherstone owns the right of way. It could be a mess for those that own the land and homes for a number of reasons. There are rumours but just rumours about the new owner selling lots for development. He is sitting on millions of waterfront if it happens. There is also a similar tract of land on the Grand River with small cottages and trailers. That land was sold and a battle ensued between the tenants and the new owner. The agreements were nublious. The new owner had deeper pockets than the tenants. The tenants lost and either moved their places or demolished them and paid to take them to land fill.

 

Personally I would never enter into one of these land/lease agreements. A contract is only as good as the lawyer of the guy with the deepest pockets. We considered it when we bought here. I could have bought 5 places there for the price we paid here 21 years back. A very nice waterfront cottage there goes for 100K now, maybe if you can find a buyer. Many have been trying to sell for years but can't get what they put into it.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Old Ironmaker

[pike slayer]

The area is suppose to be in a very good area for fishing and close to good hunting the reason for my interest in the property. The guy has leased over 40 lots over the last 5 years or so. He only has 3 lots left. He told me a few people have put up log cottage kits, septic systems,etc. Other have built smaller cabins. Asking around town I found 2 friends of friends that had already gotten leases and are building cabins in the area. I briefly spoke to them and I couldn't get fine details but they didn't seem to concerned. I'm definitely going to check these out with caution and see the paper work with agreements and probably take it to a lawyer before pulling the trigger if I like the property. I want to make sure I ask all the right questions. Either way I know I would not invest a ton of money cause nothing is 100% ever there's always a risk. I'd do a smaller basic cabin no power wood stove plywood floors.

[OhioFisherman]

You need to fully understand your rights before you place your house on someone else's property think of it being like a cemetery plot. Unless it is iron clad then you are possible liable to return the lot with you paying the cost of returning it back in the same condition aka no house on it. Personally I would pass on this before I spent a few thousand having a lawyer research and verify your rights.

 

 

Art

 

I am with Art on this, after your lease expires how can you force the current owner or a new one to renew it?

Edited November 12, 2017 by OhioFisherman

[LeXXington]

I would walk away on this.. You build the cottage, do all the work.. 25 years end of lease he\she puts your hard work up for sale.

[mike rousseau]

First Nations own all the islands around here

 

Its all leased land now with cottages everywhere

 

Never really heard of any issues

[Old Ironmaker]

I with Art on this, after your lease expires how can you force the current owner or a new one to renew it?

You can't, simple as that. 20 years comes a lot faster than you would think. Around here you can't build a simple garage for 80 bucks a square foot for materials alone. A basic no frills cabin would be similar. My 4'X8' 2x3" wall stud board and baton lean-to was $700.00 in materials, no insulation. What about water and septic?

[DRIFTER_016]

My cabin up here is on leased land.

Only big difference is the lease is with the territorial government and not a private individual.

Pretty sure I would trust the govt more than an individual.

Can't believe I just typed that.

[pike slayer]

So I took a drive up and checked out the place. The property is gated at the highway and then gated another km or 2 in. You drive a logging type road for 6km til you get to the lots. The property has 6 private pike/walleye lakes and the lots are on a large lake that has pike,walleye,bass,perch,whitefish and also has a fishing lodge on it. The lots are cleared with windows to lake with amazing views ready to build. Leases are annual not 20 year and basically you hope every year they renew. Lots of nice places in there all with the same lease agreements.

[woodenboater]

and people are putting in septics ? Legally ? with those conditions, if the price is right, I'd be throwing up a wall tent on a platform, similar size to the ones Lakair had. Don't get renewed, take the circus to another town. Too much downside for me. May be good pike lakes but that's not unique.

 

btw, is the road ploughed in the winter ?

 

Again, I suggest finding your own paradise and never worry about annual renewals

Edited November 14, 2017 by woodenboater

[LeXXington]

Leases are annual not 20 year and basically you hope every year they renew. Lots of nice places in there all with the same lease agreements.

 

So if the owner has a new friend and wants to have them move closer wait a year a cottage will be ready for you.. lol

[cheaptackle]

IF the leases are covered under the Landlord and Tenant Act as applicable to land lease and/or mobile home communities they are auto renewing on a month to month basis ad infinitum unless the community is closed and converted (to other uses), requiring a minimum one year notice AND payment up to 5,000.00 to the tenant OR if the Landlord successfully obtains an eviction order (for cause) from the Board. Just like an apartment or rental house, hold up your end of the bargain and you and your tenure are protected by the act. As I suggested earlier, the first step would be determining if the act applies. Without all the relevant details to analyze it's hard to make a call. I can't even tell if the OP is looking in Ontario at this stage. If he is not (ie the states or Manitoba or?), different rules will most likely apply. This type of leasing can be quite painless if all parties are above board and legal, which applies to the majority of situations BUT where there isn't mutual agreements under the applicable laws all hell can break loose. Educate BEFORE negotiate would be the best path.

 

Michael

[Big Cliff]

Or you could just get a lot at a park like Riverwood, where you don't have to worry about much of anything. A pool, beach, docking, fishing, boat storage...... Septic, water, community center......