NF Trent Lakes Waste Management ...getting ridiculous

[buckhorn250]

Ok..so I'll start by saying that I firmly believe in recycling and consider myself a pretty 'green' guy.

 

We've had a place in Trent Lakes for about 10 years and during that time I've witnessed a transformation of the waste dump.

10 years ago it was pretty informal, well managed and pretty easy going. You got a once a year free day tipping pass for spring cleanup and the only thing you really got charged for was refrigeration appliances...completely understandable.

 

In the last five years its transformed into something very different, limited number of bags ...not only per year, but for each quarter..use em or lose em. Clear bags only and massive chargers for other waste. I dropped of a small pile of construction waste, filled a quarter of my small trailer...35 bucks. The same would have cost me under 5 bucks at the Mississauga dump. Also a transfer station.

 

The real frustrating thing is that today when we did a dump run it took 25 minutes in line. They are going through cars like your at the boarder...its easier to get on an international flight then to get into the Buckhorn dump...but that's not the frustrating thing. I counted 14 people working there...for a dump?!?!

 

Anyway I'm all for advancing the manner in which we manage our waste...but the manner in which they are doing it seems counter intuitive.

 

...and I didn't even mention the massive cardboard compactor (about the size of a truck trailer) that they purchased and I have heard doesnt work.

 

I hate feeling that I'm funding their inefficiencies and bad business decisions.

 

Curious is others are seeing similar transformations.

[moxie]

Ya. i either burn everything or bring it back home and toss it in the jobsite bins the company rents. The ditch would work just fine though.

Edited June 13, 2017 by moxie

[chris.brock]

 

I feel the same.

 

I just tried to drop off 120 L of used engine oil I've saved up from oil changes. The attendant said I am only allowed 20 L. So they want me to come more often for a 40 minute drive and make even more emissions?

 

I recycle and compost all I can but my bi- weekly curb pick up quota isn't enough. I now have to buy 133 L contractor garbage bags. So it costs me more money to take out the trash and more plastic ends up in the landfill. A loose/ loose situation.

 

It's a good recipe for people to dump stuff in the ditch and burn stuff they shouldn't be burning.

[captpierre]

Ok..so I'll start by saying that I firmly believe in recycling and consider myself a pretty 'green' guy.

 

We've had a place in Trent Lakes for about 10 years and during that time I've witnessed a transformation of the waste dump.

10 years ago it was pretty informal, well managed and pretty easy going. You got a once a year free day tipping pass for spring cleanup and the only thing you really got charged for was refrigeration appliances...completely understandable.

 

In the last five years its transformed into something very different, limited number of bags ...not only per year, but for each quarter..use em or lose em. Clear bags only and massive chargers for other waste. I dropped of a small pile of construction waste, filled a quarter of my small trailer...35 bucks. The same would have cost me under 5 bucks at the Mississauga dump. Also a transfer station.

 

The real frustrating thing is that today when we did a dump run it took 25 minutes in line. They are going through cars like your at the boarder...its easier to get on an international flight then to get into the Buckhorn dump...but that's not the frustrating thing. I counted 14 people working there...for a dump?!?!

 

Anyway I'm all for advancing the manner in which we manage our waste...but the manner in which they are doing it seems counter intuitive.

 

...and I didn't even mention the massive cardboard compactor (about the size of a truck trailer) that they purchased and I have heard doesnt work.

 

I hate feeling that I'm funding their inefficiencies and bad business decisions.

 

Curious is others are seeing similar transformations.

Glad you brought this up.

Took 1 garbage bag and used oil over.

Took the oil but not the garbage because it wasn't in a clear bag.

[Old Ironmaker]

Here they as well have turned the dump into a recycling centre. I loved going to the old dump, a buddy would come out heavier than when he went in. I know a guy that cut up an old glass boat and it cost him close to a grand to get rid of it. And everyone wants to know why our culverts are full of household items.

 

Our county staff looking for ways to find money actually proposed condo, townhouse and apartment properties be totally responsible for garbage and recycle costs as well as seasonal addresses not get garbage and recycling pickup from Thanksgiving to Victoria Day. All they had to do is drop off the 2 bags and recycle to the "Waste Management Facility" and PAY for it. In a moment of sanity the Mayor said not on my watch. If they took the time to actually write it down and send notices to each and every residence here I know it will be something they will try to do ASAP.

 

You aren't alone.

[scuro2]

I have a different viewpoint....whiners who don't want to recycle or pay for the true cost of dumping their garbage are part of growing problem, and that stick in the mud attitude is part of the reason that we may get a NEW major landfill in our county. It will be the 5th biggest dump in Canada and our county doesn't have final say on this. But it won't be just one dump because once such a landfill is in, the area is no longer "virgin" and they will put in another new major landfill with each coming generation.

Whose garbage are we going to get? Mainly the GTAs garbage but it could come from anywhere in Ontario. No one wants a new dump in their backyard so existing dumps are trying to extend the live of their dumps by averting as much garbage into their landfill. If 14 people are working at your dump that is a good thing because that means you will be able to dump there for an extra 10 or 20 years. A new dump will cost all of us a heap more cash and no land owner will want a new dump in your county.

Go to Europe where a small plastic bag is about as much as you can put at the curb per week in many countries. Things change, often for a very good reason...we used to put lead in our gas and our paints.

Edited June 12, 2017 by scuro2

[jimmer]

We also have to use clear garbage bags with a limit of two. I have no problem staying within one small bag on most weeks. I might have an extra bag if I have done some clean up. They allow one privacy bag within the clear bag.

One week I put out a regular sized clear bag with some garbage and the two clear grocery sized bags in my regular garbage pail. They left one of the small bags, so now I have to use another regular sized garbage bag on top of the two small clear if I wanted them to pick up all my garbage. Another bag in the landfill?

What do we do with fish scraps after cleaning them? Do we just throw everything into a clear bag?

Just felt like ranting along with the others.

[OhioFisherman]

I'm stateside and in a rural community, we don't have government trash collection, it is done thru a private company for around 110 bucks a quarter, which can vary with the price of fuel, they tack on a fuel surcharge.

 

Once a year, in the spring they have a community cleanup day, they park a couple of big dumpsters at the township service garage and you can bring your junk in for free, but they have some restrictions on the junk you bring in. They only accept limited amounts of tires, construction waste, and a few other items to keep people that abuse the system from taking advantage of it.

[Rattletrap2]

I am outside the city as well. Our local dump shut down a few years ago. Our garbage collection also changed hands to GFL as in a lot of other areas. We have to use clear bags and are allowed one per week. Recycling is unlimited weekly. For only two of us, the one bag of garbage is no problem. I am hardly able to fill one more than half way unless we have people over for a family gathering on the week-ends. Most of what goes into the trash is styrofoam and plastic cellophane and plastic bags because our area does not recycle them. I almost always fill the green bin with compost materials and always have a decent amount of cans, bottles, paper, and cardboard for the Blue bins. I would compost my own stuff for the garden, but it would draw in even more nuisance wildlife!

 

For the life of me, I don't understand why they insist on filling holes in the ground with all this garbage!!! There are lots of very enviro friendly incinerator options that have almost no emissions other than steam such as the ones in Europe where they don't have the luxury of unused land for dumps. Another ludicrous idea is that we truck it all to Michigan and pay for it to be dumped!!! Why not invest in the technology now that will last us into the future?

This decaying garbage will be in the ground long after most of us are long gone!

Sigh!!!

[pics]

In Hamilton the lifespan of the dump has been extended by at least 20 years by limiting what goes in. We are only allowed one bag a week but unlimited recycling and compost/leaf bags. You get 18 extra tags for additional bags over and above your one a week limit. Our transfer station will take oil, batteries, propane tanks, tires, appliances, light bulbs, electronics, tires etc etc for nothing. A dump is a toxic mess that leaches crap into the ground water and methane into the air. Ours generates electricity from the off gassing to reduce emissions. Farms around the dump have poor water wells due to the constant pumping of contaminated water that is sent to be treated. Anyone with cows have had to get out of the business due to water issues. All of our old dumps have to be monitored for leachate and methane decades after closing. There's good reason to limit and monitor what goes in.. You wouldn't want one in your neighbourhood..

[AKRISONER]

I work in the industry and will tell you outright, the reason garbage is getting so expensive is that they are forcing your hand to recycle. The large majority of packaging and printed paper materials are recyclable, and your food waste is entirely compostable.

 

The idea is that it is to encourage you to recycle, not throw trash into a ditch...Because if you are that type of person it doesnt matter if the bag of garbage costs 20 or 100 dollars to dispose of, you are still going to throw it in the ditch.

 

Recycling is always free because the material has value. Municipalities are maximizing the amount of recyclables that they can collect because they can then in turn bail it and sell it.

[Big Cliff]

The City of Kawartha Mistakes can't get it right with the garbage???? No kidding! They were offered a comprehensive recycling program for free and they declined. A lot of what gets sent in for recycling ends up going into landfill just because they don't have the resources to sort it. I talked to a waste management consultant who told me the number of tons of recyclable material that CKL diverts to land fill is staggering!

 

They claim that the Lindsay Landfill has "state of the art" liners and there is no way that anything can leak into the Scugog River (the land fill site is right on the shore) strange how the phosphate levels in the river down stream of the land fill are much higher than up stream. The weed growth in Sturgeon lake has accelerated at a ridiculous rate since the land fill was put there but "oh no, can't be from the landfill site".

 

My solution is simple, I recycle everything I can, I compost all of our compostable materials and use that compost in my gardens. Lastly, I tip our garbage man $20.00 at Christmas and thank him for his service (sometimes in the summer I slip him another $20.00 and tell him to buy a cold one on me). I bet I could put a car full of garbage out at the curb and he'd pick it up for me.

[chris.brock]

I have a different viewpoint....

I hear ya.

 

I think the main complaint though, like the OP said, is the waste management guy's inefficiencies and counter productive practices.

 

Not really relevant but kinda interesting,

-I've seen them bulldoze a pile of recyclables (plastic bottles and metal cans) right into the landfill. I guess they didn't have the capacity for it.

- I've heard the stuff going into the landfill isn't decomposing like it once did because the organic stuff isn't mixed in with it, it's separated in the green bin program.

[Old Ironmaker]

I still owned property in Hamilton when they went to the Green bins and new recycle program. Being an old non paradigm shifting guy I couldn't understand it, now I do. There is a toxic waste site at the top of Centennial Parkway behing the CHCH TV tower. Hundred of trucks a day in the 90's were coming in from Michigan with material that wasn't what was supposed to cross the border let alone dumped. Friends lived in a McMansion on the brow right across the road of it. When it was operational everyone in the home and neighbourhood got sick and they sold at a huge loss.

 

The technology is available so that millions of tones of waste can be diverted from landfills to treatment facilities that don't exist in Ontario. That is something I can get behind but I hear nothing from our Province pushing it. County to county the "can recycle, can't recycle" is astonishing to me.

[captpierre]

I understand the only recycled material of any worth is paper and aluminum.

Plastics are often taken to landfill.

[Big Cliff]

I understand the only recycled material of any worth is paper and aluminum.

Plastics are often taken to landfill.

Clear plastic, wrap is worth more than steel for scrap. We haul skid loads of it to a waste management company Edited June 15, 2017 by Big Cliff

[Old Ironmaker]

That makes sence Cliff because they won't take the thin black plastic/cellulous containers that plants come in and there are plenty this time of year. So why don't they make all plastic everything clear? Stupid question I guess.

[chris.brock]

 

2 dump runs for me today (Halton)

 

-first load, 150 kg, $10

-second load, 180 kg, $31

 

The scale house attendant said they need to review their fee structure.

 

yeah, no crap

[scuro2]

I work in the industry and will tell you outright, the reason garbage is getting so expensive is that they are forcing your hand to recycle. The large majority of packaging and printed paper materials are recyclable, and your food waste is entirely compostable.

 

The idea is that it is to encourage you to recycle, not throw trash into a ditch...Because if you are that type of person it doesnt matter if the bag of garbage costs 20 or 100 dollars to dispose of, you are still going to throw it in the ditch.

 

Recycling is always free because the material has value. Municipalities are maximizing the amount of recyclables that they can collect because they can then in turn bail it and sell it.

 

As I understand it also recycling is monetized. Perhaps at first when recycling was new some of this material went into the landfill because no market had developed, but it would be an urban myth that a large part of our recycling goes into the landfill anyways.

 

Garbage is getting expensive because averting it is expensive. New landfills with massive liners are expensive and it's questionable if landfills are the way to go forwards anyways. No one wants a new landfill in their backyard. NIMBY.

 

Old landfills are a serious problem because some had no liners and the issue of contamination wasn't even a design issue back then. Basically find a depression near your town and that is the landfill, those spots chosen were some of the worst locations possible. Doing without knowledge or planning always has consequences.

 

New landfills claim their liners are leak proof but are only as good as the design and installation of the liner. All liners are designed to leak because they are not designed to last forever. They work only as long as leachate is pumped out of the out of the landfill. Companies that run landfills are only responsible for these pumps for a set period of time at which point in theory the contaminants have been neutralized. The leachate pumps can then be turned off a few decades after a dump closes. As soon as the pumps stop the soil within the dump becomes waterlogged like a massive diaper. The shear weight of the rainwater and groundwater getting into a closed landfill will tear all liners over time. The long term goal is simply to minimize contamination. The whole issue is very complicated but over time best practices have greatly improved the environmental consequences of what we did in the past.

 

Easiest of all to do is to whine and complain. I'm actually impressed this time around by how well informed a majority of the posters are.

Edited June 19, 2017 by scuro2

[AKRISONER]

Chris the reason you saw them shovel a pile of bottles or a bail into the landfill is that the bail most likely got contaminated.

 

In recycling, like anything the Recycling facilities do their best to try make their bails as pure as possible, i.e. a bail of HDPE, or LDPE, or a bail of Steel, or aluminum...typically these bails are kept above 96% purity. However if a bail comes off of the line and is a mess there are a few options, you can try find a processor to buy the bail at a heavy discount, you can throw the bail back through the system, or you can simply toss it in the trash. If the bail was heavily contaminated with something really bad, i.e. lets say a few gallons of used motor oil made its way into the bail then you basically are forced to throw it in the trash.

 

Dependant on the MRF there are different efficiencies for sorting as well. Some private Recycling facilities such as the one that does a large part of peterborough actually throws out 15% of the reyclables no matter what simply because their sorters are crap, so whatever doesnt get picked off of the line literally gets tossed in the trash once its made its way through the facility. State of the art ones like the one Durham just opened say they reach up to 98% efficiency...which all things considered...in the early 80's kitchener was the only place recycling and the rest of the world was throwing basically everything but cans and steel into the trash.

 

We are doing pretty good, and it will only get better with time. Certain countries in europe are literally going to 0 waste...i.e. even stuff thats hazardous will be collected and managed appropriately. So complain all you want about a small bag costing money, soon you wont even get that, its just a matter of time.

[Old Ironmaker]

I always was of the thinking that the major problem with all the crap we have to recycle is the waste that consumables come with from manufacturers. I needed a few of those throw away paint brushes from the Dollar Store. It comes with twice as much thick plastic packaging as what's in it. I swear I needed a chainsaw to cut it open #1 then toss the plastic package and cardboard once I seperate it, and #2 it is disposable to begin with. Those brushes covered in paint must end up in landfill. I know the older lady next door would have a hell of a time getting the cardboard separated from the plastic so she most likely doesn't. So that would be left to the worker at the recycle centre. They might not bother if the line was moving fast so they end up tossing it. Same goes for the AAA batteries I bought today.

 

We have to legislate this waste from coming from manufacturers is what I'm thinking. Wasn't there an out cry when CD's came out because of the waste in packaging? What about the rest of this waste of resources?

 

I too am part of the problem, a big part. I want a cheap brush and am too lazy to clean a good one or risk ruining it.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Old Ironmaker

[ketchenany]

OI! They will never legislate packaging! There is along line to get it to a store. Ad Agency does the design produces the art, printer prints, finishing does the rest, then it gets packaged. The government collect at all stages. THis could mean thousands of jobs. So they let it go and we have to recycle it.

Which generates more $.

IT's a cycle we can't get out of.

To buy a tool to unpack an item is a waste of time and $. Look at what they have produced to roll up the rim?

[scuro2]

OI! They will never legislate packaging! ...IT's a cycle we can't get out of.

 

 

Packaging is regulated in several countries in Europe. When you live in a small landmass it's remarkable what you can do. Not one tree grows wild in a forest in Germany. All forests are harvested continuously one small section at a time. Anything can be done if there is a need and the nation is behind it.

[Old Ironmaker]

We Canadians and Americans are the 2 most wasteful nations in the world. Every visitor from around the world were amazed at what resources we wasted just in our division of the steel plant. We could provide heat and energy to a thousands in the city with what burns as waste gas. They used some of this waste gas prior to WW2 to heat most of the houses around the plant.

[AKRISONER]

OI! They will never legislate packaging! There is along line to get it to a store. Ad Agency does the design produces the art, printer prints, finishing does the rest, then it gets packaged. The government collect at all stages. THis could mean thousands of jobs. So they let it go and we have to recycle it.

Which generates more $.

IT's a cycle we can't get out of.

To buy a tool to unpack an item is a waste of time and $. Look at what they have produced to roll up the rim?

 

 

uhhh...

 

BLUE BOX PROGRAM PLAN Produced by Waste Diversion Ontario In cooperation with Stewardship Ontario

 

http://stewardshipontario.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/BBPP-Feb28-FINAL_wappendices.pdf

 

Through his Program Request Letter, the Minister directed the WDO to develop a waste diversion program for Blue Box wastes (Appendix II). In the addendum to the letter the Minister identified twelve specific issues that must be addressed within the Program Plan to be developed. The addendum reads as follows: Bill 91, Waste Reduction Act, 2013

Bradley, Hon James J. Minister of the Environment

Current Status: Second Reading Debate

 

http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_detail.do?locale=en&BillID=2818&detailPage=bills_detail_the_bill

 

 

 

Iron, there is incentive to not overpackage things, the more packaging manufacturers and brand owners produce the more they pay...the problem is that they pass the cost of the packaging off to you...the consumer...dont think for a second you arent paying for the packaging associated with your products. If you want it to go away, stop buying that product...thats the free market economy.

Edited June 21, 2017 by AKRISONER