OFAH vs Town of Port Hope

[FloatnFly]

 

 

We dont need nor want them.

 

the fees? or the people?

[craigdritchie]

Not that it really relates to the topic but that $27.8 mil figure does not mean what you think it means.

 

You seem to have simply pulled the "Other" number from the Annex A.11 "Major purchases and investments...". Quite obviously, it doesn't give you "the economic impact of fishing". To get the economic impact of fishing one also needs to consider A.9 "Direct expenditures..." and A.10 "Major purchases wholly or partially attributable to angling...".

 

I just hate it when people manipulate statistics to drive whatever point they are trying to make.

 

 

Nonsense.

 

The graphic shows major purchases or investments attributed to angling - the same thing that the other tables you mention show, but this one broken down to purchases made specifically for fishing and not made for other purposes as well as fishing (like a truck or cottage, for example).

 

Someone who comes to Port Hope for the day to snag salmon already bring their own tackle with them, so we can take out the fishing equipment category altogether. They aren't coming to Port Hope to buy a boat, camping equipment, a truck or a cottage, so those categories can come out too. What's left is the "Other" expenditures.

 

For the entire province of Ontario, "Other Expenditures" total $27.8 million dollars in 2010, which is (amazingly) the most recent data available.

 

That is not "manipulating statistics" as you suggest. It is simple reality.

 

How much money do you think the average guy who comes to Port Hope for the day actually spends? They bring everything with them. Some (but not all) will buy lunch, and some (but not all) will buy some gas. That's it. I hate to burst your bubble, but a month of fishing in the spring and maybe three months of it in the fall isn't exactly keeping the whole town afloat. If the entire fishing world boycotted Port Hope, the only thing they would miss is the gong show of hooligans and stench of decaying fish.

[FloatnFly]

river fisherman will not spend that much money, not even close. a hotel room for the weekend, stop at tims, maybe lunch/dinner, but thats it. the ones spending money are the charter guides.

 

once the salmon and steelhead leave the river, guess how much money river fisherman spend in port hope. will be next to nothing

[Old Ironmaker]

There used to be a "Ballet" in Port Hope just off the 401, so I have been told. It brought in a copious amount of money from fishermen after a long day.

[AKRISONER]

There used to be a "Ballet" in Port Hope just off the 401, so I have been told. It brought in a copious amount of money from fishermen after a long day.

 

i could only imagine how greasy the ballet in port hope would be. Im guessing this is where the name tooth brush was invented rather than teeth brush.

[chessy]

river fisherman will not spend that much money, not even close. a hotel room for the weekend, stop at tims, maybe lunch/dinner, but thats it. the ones spending money are the charter guides.

 

once the salmon and steelhead leave the river, guess how much money river fisherman spend in port hope. will be next to nothing

the charter boat guys they have there customers come at 5 fish till 11 clean fish for free and pack them up and those people are headed back to city or province with out spending a dime . the garbage cans are filled with non English speaking products so not only was it not purchased here but it was dumped here .

[DRIFTER_016]

the charter boat guys they have there customers come at 5 fish till 11 clean fish for free and pack them up and those people are headed back to city or province with out spending a dime . the garbage cans are filled with non English speaking products so not only was it not purchased here but it was dumped here .

 

I guess they have free charters in Pt. Hope.

I was unaware of that.

Next time I'm down in the summer I'll make sure to go out on one of them.

[Woodsman]

 

They can legally enforce pretty much any law on books including all fishing related laws.

 

Police officers can enforce fishery laws just like a CO. However, they don't have the same training as COs so they usually only enforce basic laws such as fishing without a license. Snagging is a law that they could enforce.

 

They can certainly do a lot more than enforce anti littering laws if they are interested in doing so.

John where are you getting that By-Law officers "can legally enforce pretty much any law on books including all fishing related laws."

The Fish & Wildlife Act doesn't included them as CO's but does include police officers.

[SirCranksalot]

 

i could only imagine how greasy the ballet in port hope would be. Im guessing this is where the name tooth brush was invented rather than teeth brush.

Har dee har dee har!!!

[Canuck2fan]

Not a fan of new fees for fishing specific areas. Only because once they are put in they will never be taken away or be will the price ever be lowered, guberments don't work that way...

 

That having been said how much would it cost to hire 30 hooligans with baseball bats or stun guns "deputized" to restore order? Word would get around pretty quick.... JK LOL

 

Or maybe the ACTUAL costs could be recouped by enforcing the laws and allowing municipalities to impose specialized local fines. That way the people who litter, or poach would be PAYING for their actions. Give officers 10% of what they "raise" in their off hours as pay and an incentive for them to step up maybe?

 

If the province wanted to help they would tie these fines to driver and vehicle licensing, you don't pay your fine you don't get your renewals for driving.

 

Also a HUGE fan of having a website where every litterbug and poacher would be posted along with their address and what their vehicle looks like.

[chessy]

 

I guess they have free charters in Pt. Hope.

I was unaware of that.

Next time I'm down in the summer I'll make sure to go out on one of them.

the town makes no money from them . they pay 2 bucks more a foot for docking fees and they pay the same launching fee as a regular boat. the town makes no money at all .. they dont even have to pay a bussiness licence to operate in the town

[Terry]

except i know someone who charters out there ,books motel rooms for clients out there, lives out there and so it sure does bring in community money and tax money

[DRIFTER_016]

except i know someone who charters out there ,books motel rooms for clients out there, lives out there and so it sure does bring in community money and tax money

 

Exactly.

His charter business brings tourist $$$$ to town.

[bigugli]

The key problem across Ontario, let alone the Ganny, is a lack of enforcement and deterrence. I applaud the efforts of the MNRF's ground staff, but 2 CO's for a large area just does not provide adequate coverage. More importantly, our fine structure is a joke. Look south of the border where fines start are routinely issued at $500 per offence. In Florida poaching can get you 60 days. Texas levies fine upward of $10,000. And they all just love confiscation of property. You also pay all court costs. Some state fisheries depts . recover 10% and more from fines.

I just shake my head when I read about court imposed fines less than $200

[FloatnFly]

except i know someone who charters out there ,books motel rooms for clients out there, lives out there and so it sure does bring in community money and tax money

 

people that come from out of town might spend money in town.im assuming what happens there is this. client books charter, lives 2+ hours away, doesn't want to get up at 2am, drive 2 hours to get there for 5am. most likely the client will drive down the night before, stay the night, maybe go out for dinner, pick up a few drinks and snacks for the next day, go out for his 6 hour charter, then go home.

 

i was talking strictly river fisherman, how much money to they bring directly to port hope. i know for trout, that hotel in welcome is jammed

[FloatnFly]

The key problem across Ontario, let alone the Ganny, is a lack of enforcement and deterrence. I applaud the efforts of the MNRF's ground staff, but 2 CO's for a large area just does not provide adequate coverage. More importantly, our fine structure is a joke. Look south of the border where fines start are routinely issued at $500 per offence. In Florida poaching can get you 60 days. Texas levies fine upward of $10,000. And they all just love confiscation of property. You also pay all court costs. Some state fisheries depts . recover 10% and more from fines.

I just shake my head when I read about court imposed fines less than $200

 

 

hopefully with local police finally being trained to enforce mnr regulations, the number of fines will go up

[Terry]

 

people that come from out of town might spend money in town.im assuming what happens there is this. client books charter, lives 2+ hours away, doesn't want to get up at 2am, drive 2 hours to get there for 5am. most likely the client will drive down the night before, stay the night, maybe go out for dinner, pick up a few drinks and snacks for the next day, go out for his 6 hour charter, then go home.

 

i was talking strictly river fisherman, how much money to they bring directly to port hope. i know for trout, that hotel in welcome is jammed

yes I agree , it was not you i was replying to

[misfish]

 

the fees? or the poachers?

 

We have fees, so the other . Fixed it as I see it. No offence.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Misfish

[FloatnFly]

 

We have fees, so the other .

 

well....we don't want them either lol

[misfish]

Agreed.

[GBW]

hopefully with local police finally being trained to enforce mnr regulations, the number of fines will go up

PM me if you want his (the DRPS) name to follow up with. His and my chat started openly on FB on a fishing group for the area.

[chris.brock]

IIt's almost impossible to get a conviction on a snagging charge these days, since you can't prove intent. Even gutting the fish for eggs and leaving the carcass to rot can be argued in court, since all they can charge you with there is allowing fish suitable for human consumption to go to waste, and it's up to the officer to prove the fish is fit to eat.

I can see that, those charges could easily be debated in court and waste tax payer's money in the court system, even if the guy is brutally guilty.

 

Catching someone fishing without a license is pretty cut and dry. So what's the advantage of catching someone fishing without 2 licences, the provincial licence and the Port Hope licence?

 

If the snagger buys 1 licence he could buy 2.

 

If not, it could be easily argued "I've got an Ontario licence, I didn't know you need another licence to fish here"

 

You'll probably ignore this but whatever, I think this is the wrong path to take.

[brifishrgy]

Yup, lets impose a new law for the people who dont follow the laws... sounds legit

[farsider]

Why doesn't the town rig up CCTV and/or webcams?

 

Could help with "contested" charges and for allocating manpower even if the arresting officer didn't see it directly.

 

Again, applying the fines they can lay and the wildlife offences when they occur.

[FloatnFly]

Why doesn't the town rig up CCTV and/or webcams?

 

Could help with "contested" charges and for allocating manpower even if the arresting officer didn't see it directly.

 

Again, applying the fines they can lay and the wildlife offences when they occur.

 

problem there is cost, and being able to cover all the possible angles. unless you're up close enough to see, its almost impossible to tell whether or not is was a legal take, or snagged on the gills