Trudeau on Rice Lake Tomorrow Friday the 13th

[Dara]

That kid sure gets himself into a pile of trouble.

 

First vacationgate, now he is under investigation for forgetting how to speak English.

 

Pretty soon him and Kate will be cellmates. :tease:

[aplumma]

Stp with the attacks we are really close to locking this down unless we become civil again.

 

 

Art

[scuro2]

The question really is not whether ppm is rising. The global question is what humanity should or can do it about it. Or more specifically to this discussion, how the hell Trudeau's carbon tax is going to affect that rise. (Answer: it will have zero impact on warming or CO2 levels, the only thing it's going to impact is our pockets).

 

It's all related HF. PPM (parts per million) of C02 is directly related to world temperature increase. To climate scientists it couldn't be more obvious, but hey they love studying problems. Those clever scientists have determined that a 2 degree increase of global world temperatures would be bad-bad-bad for everyone. That is the point where doing nothing, as you suggest, becomes a lot more more costly then doing something. We are close to breaching that level...which is about 500 ppm

 

 

If you are with me so far then the Carbon tax was Canada's solution to live up to our responsibilities of the Paris accord, where incredibly all the countries of the world came together and agreed how to solve this problem. When you can get the worlds biggest polluter to agree and make major changes to lower it's ppm you have accomplished something, especially when that country is China. So no, I completely disagree with you, this is a big Damn deal and it will have a huge impact on C02 levels and global warming.

 

You can whine all you want about how Wynne and Trudeau IMPLEMENT things and cost you more tax dollars then necessary, and I wouldn't disagree with you there, but their goal to work with the rest of the world on this problem is intelligent and responsible. If you want those two leaders out of office it would be important to be cognizant of the biggest problem facing the world today and more importantly, have a better solution. One way I could see the Liberals staying in power would be for the PCs to continue to be ignorant on the issue, with no policy or plan. As climate events become more extreme reasonable people will never vote for a party that is clueless on this issue.

 

Edited January 19, 2017 by scuro2

[pics]

You can't deny that something isn't going on with the climate. Dying coral reefs, acidic oceans, the loss of arctic sea ice etc, etc.. Even if you don't believe in climate change, as outdoors people we should all be concerned about the air and water. I work on a coke ovens battery and the days of letting the ovens emitt smoke are gone and with good reason. Industry and consumers should both be doing whatever it takes to reduce harmful emissions to the environment.. I don't agree with the current cap and trade system or a Carbon tax because we really don't know where the money goes..

[scuro2]

A sensible response and well reasoned response and criticism! Lord have mercy!

[Hedfish]

 

You can whine all you want about how Wynne and Trudeau IMPLEMENT things and cost you more tax dollars then necessary, and I wouldn't disagree with you there, but their goal to work with the rest of the world on this problem is intelligent and responsible.

 

No need to use words like "whine", if you want to have an intelligent discussion.

 

The goal is noble an all but the HOW is more important than having good intentions. "Hell is paved with good intentions".

 

Without a clear picture of where the money will go, Carbon Tax definitely looks like a cash grab and lots of people have no doubt that money will be misused. That's why Trudeau is criticized, no need to scream "DENIERS!" and post tons of graphs.

 

As for the Paris Agreement, I have no doubt that thing was dead even before it's been born. "Name and encourage", lol.

 

 

 

If you are with me so far then the Carbon tax was Canada's solution to live up to our responsibilities of the Paris accord

 

Tax is never a solution, tax is supposed to be the means to implement a solution. The problem is that Trudeau secured the funds but has no solution. At least so far.

[DRIFTER_016]

Read an article last week about how $70 Mil is missing out of the MNR fund.

Looks like it may have been used for things other than it's intended purpose.

You think this won't happen with the Libs new carbon tax?

 

Remember when they brought in the fishing licenses and how they said all funds generated form sales of them would go to the MNR?

Also remember that they didn't tell us all existing funding was being stripped so they could use it elsewhere.

The net result was the MNR funding decreased because the license fees were less than the original funding.

We all though the license fees were a great thing because the MNR would have way more money to protect the resource, stocking etc.

Yeah, we were all taken.

 

And now there's that missing $70,000,000.

I wonder where it all went.

 

http://www.nugget.ca/2016/10/12/mpp-hunts-how-70m-in-anglers-fees-vanish

[Mister G]

Who's is Turdo? Another PM tour to show his face and the ministers he has forced on us.

 

This won't last long. it may, until Art kicks in lol

Ya, he ALWAYS ruins the good readings..............

[Mister G]

 

Global warming is here, is impacting the world now, and temperature increases are accelerating. The consensus of experts in that field predict outcomes from a range of bleak to the end of the world as we know it.

 

One can always come up with an excuse to do nothing... to shirk responsibility. That might be less of an issue with something like say old age security where say family should be somewhat responsible, but you're on OUR giant space vehicle. What makes those who don't want to pay for upkeep so extra special? A winning personality?

 

If your beef is with who is spending the money and how it is spent then that is a political issue. If you believe Wynne and Trudeau to be incapable of doing this right then remember they got elected with majorities which means the alternative was unappealing. Get involved and help the party of your preference choose leaders who are financially and socially capable. We need good leaders who can reach out to all with the best plan going forward.

This is the cry from liberals and unions........Always crying DOOM and GLOOM because with out Doom and Gloom they know nobody needs either one of them.

[Mister G]

 

Glen let me help you with understanding these problems.

#1,2 - what you believe about Aliens impacts only you

#3 - yes the earth has been warmer and colder. If you know your geology then you know we had ferns and palm trees in the arctic and antarctic regions. Think of it, so hot that even in the winter and in total darkness these plants thrived. There was desert for much of the rest of the world. Do you want that?

#4, #5 - it's simple Glen, the more C02 into the atmosphere the more temperatures go up. Where did you come up with .5% influence of man on the dramatic increase of C02 in our atmosphere?!??

 

Look at the two graphs below. Extreme change in a relatively incredibly short order of time. There is no other explanation then human induced climate change. We are the cause and we can fix it. It's as simple as this Glen, if we put pollutants into the air we can take them out.. or at least limit what we put into the air.

 

Since your riding on a shared ride (this planet) the least you can do is make yourself informed about the upkeep needed.

 

Where do we see global warming? Today, it was reported that we hit our third record hottest global year in a row. This in an El Nina year.

 

 

 

Sea Ice extent on both our polar regions currently are at record lows...literary off the charts. You need more evidence Glen, just ask.

 

WOW, I wasn't aware they had instruments that measure the earths ANYTHING a few thousand years ago. I'm impressed.

[Dutch01]

WOW, I wasn't aware they had instruments that measure the earths ANYTHING a few thousand years ago. I'm impressed.

Are you suggesting we have no scientific knowledge of anything before we invented instruments?

[Mister G]

Canadians are not having enough children to sustain our tax base. Without immigrants' contribution to Canada, the government would have to cut social programs further, or run higher deficits.

NOBODY is having enough children to sustain the tax base, including China........

[SirCranksalot]

This is the cry from liberals and unions........Always crying DOOM and GLOOM because with out Doom and Gloom they know nobody needs either one of them.

 

 

So now unions are unnecessary?? Wow, when did that happen? Somebody should have woke me!!!

[Headhunter]

 

 

So now unions are unnecessary?? Wow, when did that happen? Somebody should have woke me!!!

You asked... LOL

Unions became expendable after they were a key player in establishing workers rights and the accompanying legislation. Historically, before unions, workers had very limited rights entrenched in legislation. Unions brought those issues to the fore front and eventually into legislation. Since we now have workers rights entrenched, the usefulness of unions has passed.

IMHO - unions do nothing but protect the weak and unwilling. They also spend an inordinate amount of resources justifying their own existence.

HH

[Old Ironmaker]

^ exactly H.H. Unions that sprung up after WW2 was a must, not now as they have served their purpose. Most of the work done by the Unions are Health and Safety related more than Labour Relations. We at one time had as many "workers" from across the plant at the Hall as the entire number of workers in my dept. That didn't include H&S reps on steady days in the plant. If they put an entire 8 hours in everyday I would be very surprised. US Steel changed all that. Local 1005's offices are maybe 10% the size now as when they had the Great Hall. They can now hold an executive meeting in an MGB.

[scuro2]

WOW, I wasn't aware they had instruments that measure the earths ANYTHING a few thousand years ago. I'm impressed.

 

It's an incredible story on how they measure this with ice core samples from the poles. People have dedicated their life so that "doubting Thomas'" like Mister G can easily visualize what happened climate wise in the past.

Start at about 1:15 Edited January 20, 2017 by scuro2

[scuro2]

...The goal is noble an all but the HOW is more important than having good intentions. "Hell is paved with good intentions". Without a clear picture of where the money will go, Carbon Tax definitely looks like a cash grab and lots of people have no doubt that money will be misused. That's why Trudeau is criticized, no need to scream "DENIERS!" and post tons of graphs. As for the Paris Agreement, I have no doubt that thing was dead even before it's been born. "Name and encourage", lol. Tax is never a solution, tax is supposed to be the means to implement a solution. The problem is that Trudeau secured the funds but has no solution. At least so far.

 

I see things totally differently. This isn't some tax increase for a "noble goal" that should have been done a long time ago like increasimg Veterans Funding for the treatment of PTSD..... this is an absolutely necessary change that we must make or civilization as we know it will end. Yup doom and gloom. This is not my opinion this is the opinion of the experts of the world in the field of climate change. Quiz these experts and 97% of them agree. Quiz experts about the theory of evolution, or the theory that the world is round, and you have about the same percentage of agreement. Do we have 97% of the members of this board agreeing with the experts? Nope. Unfortunately this is not an issue you can happily be ignorant about and no cares. The earth is our one shared ride in this universe so it's your RESPONSIBILITY to become truly educated on this topic. Just as if you had to share a ride to work and a fellow passenger told you the car is leaking lots of braking fluid...you can happily ignore him and the car will continue to exist in one form or the other but you have a responsibility to the people who are in that car.

 

Therefore, when fellow members obviously post images and bogus assertions from DENIER websites to create doubt I have no problem calling those images and assertions. I do so in a visual way because there is no better way to do that then with expert graphs. If you don't like all the graphs all I can say is toughtitties.

 

If you truly think that I and 97% of the experts in the field are wrong, by all means enlighten us Hedfish. If I am wrong I'll gladly apologize.

 

Once a large majority of the members understand that this is a hucking fuge problem that we must tackle I'll gladly talk taxes. Obviously based on our conversations here... any form voluntary individual reduction in carbon use is not going to work.

Edited January 20, 2017 by scuro2

[Old Ironmaker]

Based on the new rules shouldn't this thread be locked? I am on a few forums and along with the other topic headings such as Classifieds etc. there is a heading " Anything but ________" An option perhaps. If you don't wish to participate don't open the heading, too simple? Unlike some I enjoy the political threads here. Not because of the politics but there is an eclectic bunch of folks here and I enjoy reading other points of view from the opposite end of mine. Today was a very historic point in history. I dared not start a thread wishing those neighbours, friends and allies to the south my best wishes, it may have been deemed political or would become political.

 

A few have made the Mods lock any thread of a political nature for the many that participate without making personal attacks on others and for those few like Weeds that don't like it. Typical of the greasy wheels getting the entire tube of grease. Not fair I say but fair doesn't often count these days. I am sure that more went on behind the scenes that members are not privy to. Be careful OFC management, many have left and less have joined. As was pointed out fishing post views are far less than the non fishing hits. I think it is hits that advertisers want that drive your business. My personal opinion only.

[glen]

if the planet was going to have man made climate change and kill all humans.

The odds for the gov of the world saving us are nil.

[aplumma]

Based on the new rules shouldn't this thread be locked? I am on a few forums and along with the other topic headings such as Classifieds etc. there is a heading " Anything but ________" An option perhaps. If you don't wish to participate don't open the heading, too simple? Unlike some I enjoy the political threads here. Not because of the politics but there is an eclectic bunch of folks here and I enjoy reading other points of view from the opposite end of mine. Today was a very historic point in history. I dared not start a thread wishing those neighbours, friends and allies to the south my best wishes, it may have been deemed political or would become political.

 

A few have made the Mods lock any thread of a political nature for the many that participate without making personal attacks on others and for those few like Weeds that don't like it. Typical of the greasy wheels getting the entire tube of grease. Not fair I say but fair doesn't often count these days. I am sure that more went on behind the scenes that members are not privy to. Be careful OFC management, many have left and less have joined. As was pointed out fishing post views are far less than the non fishing hits. I think it is hits that advertisers want that drive your business. My personal opinion only.

I dare say that a few more will leave but there departure will not be mourned. When we lose the people who want to be here in a polite and helpful community then we will be going down the wrong path. I do not understand why people think that this site is driven by money it has minimum ads with no pop ups, The refresh pages are very generous in size, everything is free even the Classifieds and you are not even asked for donations? We have been here for many years to provide a place for people to talk and meet others in a family type of atmosphere free of a lot of the crapola other sites have. We hope that everyone can move forward with this decision and stay as a member however if you leave your account will be waiting for you when you come back.

 

Thanks

 

Art

[aplumma]

As pointed out this thread is closed. I was trying to let it run it's course but I am as again Damned if I do and Damned if I don't.

 

 

 

Art