Dara Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 I agree that we are not getting all the straight facts from the Liberal govt or the people whose cheques they sign. An alternative opinion is always welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) it wouldn't stop climate change. No, but it would drastically accelerate it (ever heard of nuclear winter?). My point was to show you that your statement was rooted only in believe, not fact. Edited January 18, 2017 by Dutch01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 I agree that we are not getting all the straight facts from the Liberal govt or the people whose cheques they sign. An alternative opinion is always welcome Do you believe you are getting the straight facts from Conservative politicians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) Again, I just posted a link to an article with an alternative viewpoint...did I say I agreed with it??? Does our Provincial government give us the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?? Maybe reality lies somewhere in between.... Did I say that you said you agreed with it? I did not. You could post a link to bomb making instructions and say but I only posted a link, I didn't say I agreed with it. But you'd still be guilty of spreading dangerous information, or in this case misinformation. Don't take it personal, I'm not attacking you here. I'm amazed how many posters here attack the Liberals (rightly so in many cases) while giving a free pass to anyone conservative. They are not different. They are in competition. They are each trying to screw us better than the other. Edited January 18, 2017 by Dutch01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) I believe in aliens. I don't believe they caused climate change. I believe the earth has benn hot and cold in the past. I believe man caused climate change is very small. 5% ish I don't believe anything man can do will affect climate change. Glen let me help you with understanding these problems. #1,2 - what you believe about Aliens impacts only you #3 - yes the earth has been warmer and colder. If you know your geology then you know we had ferns and palm trees in the arctic and antarctic regions. Think of it, so hot that even in the winter and in total darkness these plants thrived. There was desert for much of the rest of the world. Do you want that? #4, #5 - it's simple Glen, the more C02 into the atmosphere the more temperatures go up. Where did you come up with .5% influence of man on the dramatic increase of C02 in our atmosphere?!?? Look at the two graphs below. Extreme change in a relatively incredibly short order of time. There is no other explanation then human induced climate change. We are the cause and we can fix it. It's as simple as this Glen, if we put pollutants into the air we can take them out.. or at least limit what we put into the air. Since your riding on a shared ride (this planet) the least you can do is make yourself informed about the upkeep needed. Where do we see global warming? Today, it was reported that we hit our third record hottest global year in a row. This in an El Nina year. Sea Ice extent on both our polar regions currently are at record lows...literary off the charts. You need more evidence Glen, just ask. Edited January 18, 2017 by scuro2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dara Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Do you believe you are getting the straight facts from Conservative politicians? They aren't running the country right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 They aren't running the country right now. Nice dodge! (Being serious, you sidestepped the question deftly!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumma Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 What the heck is area 51?? http://www.livescience.com/23514-area-51.html It is a place where the U.S. tested our prototype aircrafts but was at one point in history denied that it even existed. The mist around the legend is in the link. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 The c02 chart is interesting. It looks like the average is around 250 and we are at 400 now. I thought it would be a lot worse then that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 The c02 chart is interesting. It looks like the average is around 250 and we are at 400 now. I thought it would be a lot worse then that. and then you have graphs like this that show Greenland is still colder than a thousand years ago when it was named Greenland , giving credence to the statement that " Figures never lie but liars figure " guess it boils down to whose Bull you want to believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Sea Ice extent on both our polar regions currently are at record lows...literary off the charts. You need more evidence Glen, just ask. I am not denying global warming; but most reports that I have read indicated that Antarctic sea ice has actually increased. There really aren't any long term comparisons for sea ice coverage. It is tracked via satellite image. So we only have data from the late seventies to present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 and then you have graphs like this that show Greenland is still colder than a thousand years ago when it was named Greenland , giving credence to the statement that " Figures never lie but liars figure " guess it boils down to whose Bull you want to believe Scientists are now so peeved off at DENIERS posting good data with bogus claims that they are creating video to debunk the claims to crap like you posted. Take a look at this video which actually quotes the scientist who took the ice core samples used in the graph you posted. Of the attempt to use his data to deny global warming he states, "so, using G1SP2 data to argue against global warming is, well, stupid, or misguided, or misled, or something, but surely not scientifically sensible". If you would like to seek more information to completely shoot down your misguided notion please look at the links below. https://www.skepticalscience.com/10000-years-warmer.htm https://climatecrocks.com/2011/02/24/new-crock-video-what-ice-cores-tell-us-and-how-deniers-distort-it/ You see Dave, people with brains are tired of these bull games so don't be part of the problem, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 I am not denying global warming; but most reports that I have read indicated that Antarctic sea ice has actually increased. There really aren't any long term comparisons for sea ice coverage. It is tracked via satellite image. So we only have data from the late seventies to present. Antarctic ice extent did actually increase in recent years but total volume of ice did not. There are theories of why this happened, including the theory that so much added fresh melt water in the antarctic ocean made the ice over the ocean easier to form. As you can see, this now has changed and we are in record territory in the satellite era, and yes that only goes back to the 70s. That doesn't mean we are totally clueless of what happened to the ice sheets before 1970. More on that if you are interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 You see Dave, people with brains are tired of these bull games so don't be part of the problem, eh? Did you read what I said along side the graph, bullshat is being put forth by both sides, I don't deny global warming, we are still coming out of the last ice age so what do you really expect, a short walk from my home I can see evidence of both glaciers and also fossils from when it was a lot warmer than today. Am I really convinced that mankind is a majour factor in the warming trend of my lifetime , which is just an imperceptible blip in time and willing to hobble the economic development of our country and my kids future while others prosper, not really. Canada contributes about 1.8 % of the CO2 emissions worldwide but due to the expansive forested land acting as a carbon sink we are basically carbon neutral or even carbon negative, sorry we are not part of the problem , this feel good legislation and carbon tax is simply a tax grab with save the planet marketing angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) this feel good legislation and carbon tax is simply a tax grab with save the planet marketing angle.Dave I'll grant you this, if the money collected is not earmarked for a special fund that can only be used for "green initiatives", then you are correct, it is not a legitimate exercise. I actually don't know if the funds are going to general revenue or not. I'll see what I can find when I have a minute... Edited January 19, 2017 by Dutch01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I watched the videos. The case for man caused climate change is a lot weaker then I thought. The guy with the ice cores takes a long time to give an answer. He says they Have been working on it for thirty years. I hope he keeps working. Maybe they can get someone to help him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Did you read what I said along side the graph, bullshat is being put forth by both sides, I don't deny global warming, we are still coming out of the last ice age so what do you really expect, a short walk from my home I can see evidence of both glaciers and also fossils from when it was a lot warmer than today. Am I really convinced that mankind is a majour factor in the warming trend of my lifetime , which is just an imperceptible blip in time and willing to hobble the economic development of our country and my kids future while others prosper, not really. Canada contributes about 1.8 % of the CO2 emissions worldwide but due to the expansive forested land acting as a carbon sink we are basically carbon neutral or even carbon negative, sorry we are not part of the problem , this feel good legislation and carbon tax is simply a tax grab with save the planet marketing angle. That's just it Dave....scientists don't deal with sullbhit, it's against their religion. One side has scientists doing decades worth of honest research and the other side is completely dishonest and hellbent in misinforming. For whatever reason they can't accept what the scientific community in this field has concluded with as much certainty as the theory of evolution, and even that the earth is round. This is not a contest of equals, it a contest of the best of mankind vrs people who should give their heads a shake. There is no bigger problem that mankind is facing and all the DENIERS want to do is confuse the general public enough so they are unsure. I in no way dispute that the earth has been a lot hotter or colder. My point is that sudden large change in temperature in either direction would be the end of the civilized world as we know it. If you do worry about your kids then worry about solid predictions that sea levels will rise 6-9 ft in their life time. You want to talk about economic hardship for your kids? At that point the best investments will be gold and guns. What do you think happens economically when many of the major cities of the world like New York are under water? This is not a game where some people prosper with huge swings in temperature, WE ALL LOSE. Your perspective that we as Canadians don't have do anything is the same morally bankrupt perspective promoted by the worst of petroleum industry. The "old cynical" we can't make a difference so why bother line. Or to quote Rex Tillarson, Exxon Mobil CEO: “What good is it to save the planet if humanity suffers?” Do please honestly get informed because you're sharing my ride and as such you have responsibilities. Currently we are above 400 ppm and rising More on C02 in the link below https://www.co2.earth/global-warming-update Edited January 19, 2017 by scuro2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I watched the videos. The case for man caused climate change is a lot weaker then I thought. The guy with the ice cores takes a long time to give an answer. He says they Have been working on it for thirty years. I hope he keeps working. Maybe they can get someone to help him In a scientists world thoughtfulness and dedication to an issue over decades is a good thing! And Glen, don't worry....he's got help!!! :) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Sorry , guess as you say I am morally bankrupt on the subject along with these other old farts. Grandkids asked the danger of climate change and I told them them the dinosaurs are coming back, they said kool edit : one more b4 bed, hilarious Edited January 19, 2017 by dave524 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dara Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Nice dodge! (Being serious, you sidestepped the question deftly!) Everybody keeps relating back to Harper and how awfull he was. He didn't like to do interviews because he didn't want to mislead people. Trudeau however seems to have no problem with either These Liberals are just continuing his policies. They haven't changed anything. Trudeau has approved 2 pipelines. How many did Harper approve. Lets concentrate on what is happening now and leave the past alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Everybody keeps relating back to Harper and how awfull he was. He didn't like to do interviews because he didn't want to mislead people. Trudeau however seems to have no problem with either These Liberals are just continuing his policies. They haven't changed anything. Trudeau has approved 2 pipelines. How many did Harper approve. Lets concentrate on what is happening now and leave the past alone Fyi, I wasn't talking about Harper or the past. I was saying whatever new white knight the conservatives elect as leader will be just another wolf in sheep's clothing looking to fleece us like all the rest. (Liberal or Conservative). Blind love for either (any) party will be our undoing. Edited January 19, 2017 by Dutch01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dara Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Fyi, I wasn't talking about Harper or the past. I was saying whatever new white knight the conservatives elect as leader will be just another wolf in sheep's clothing looking to fleece us like all the rest. (Liberal or Conservative). Blind love for either (any) party will be our undoing. Thats an awfully negative attitude Dutch..smile a bit, the worst they can do is cook you and eat you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedfish Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 ... Currently we are above 400 ppm and rising ... The question really is not whether ppm is rising. The global question is what humanity should or can do it about it. Or more specifically to this discussion, how the hell Trudeau's carbon tax is going to affect that rise. (Answer: it will have zero impact on warming or CO2 levels, the only thing it's going to impact is our pockets). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 A little off topic here, but I just returned from paying my; -payroll tax -HST tax -Corporation tax I'm thinking Justin is walking around right now, trying to find that gold plated selfie stick I just paid for. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Thats an awfully negative attitude Dutch..smile a bit, the worst they can do is cook you and eat you They'll be sorry, I doubt I taste very good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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