An open letter to Justin

[Dutch01]

Just because the article (based on 21 separate studies conducted over decades and submitted to peer reviewed journals) points out that smoke from cannabis contains many known carcinogens, 3 times the tar and higher levels of ammonia and hydrogen cyanide it must be junk compared with the Pseudoscience common nowadays that claims it's almost a health food. Sorry to burst your bubble with the facts. Smoke from cannabis is as harmful as smoke from any other source.

Old Man, I'm going to refer you to Dr. Donald Tashkin, Professor of Medicine at UCLA.

 

He studied 5,000 subjects for 20 years. His study found no increased cancer risk in light to moderate users.

 

Take his word for it:

 

"We expected that we would find that a history of heavy marijuana use--more than 500 to 1,000 uses--would increase the risk of cancer from several years to decades after exposure to marijuana," explains physician Donald Tashkin of the University of California, Los Angeles, and lead researcher on the project. But looking at residents of Los Angeles County, the scientists found that even those who smoked more than 20,000 joints in their life did not have an increased risk of lung cancer."

 

Even clearer on weed versus tobacco:

 

"Regular smoking of marijuana by itself causes visible and microscopic injury to the large airways that is consistently associated with an increased likelihood of symptoms of chronic bronchitis that subside after cessation of use. On the other hand, habitual use of marijuana alone does not appear to lead to significant abnormalities in lung function when assessed either cross-sectionally or longitudinally, except for possible increases in lung volumes and modest increases in airway resistance of unclear clinical significance. Therefore, no clear link to chronic obstructive pulmonary disease has been established. Although marijuana smoke contains a number of carcinogens and cocarcinogens, findings from a limited number of well-designed epidemiological studies do not suggest an increased risk for the development of either lung or upper airway cancer from light or moderate use, although evidence is mixed concerning possible carcinogenic risks of heavy, long-term use. Although regular marijuana smoking leads to bronchial epithelial ciliary loss and impairs the microbicidal function of alveolar macrophages, evidence is inconclusive regarding possible associated risks for lower respiratory tract infection. Several case reports have implicated marijuana smoking as an etiologic factor in pneumothorax/pneumomediastinum and bullous lung disease, although evidence of a possible causal link from epidemiologic studies is lacking. In summary, the accumulated weight of evidence implies far lower risks for pulmonary complications of even regular heavy use of marijuana compared with the grave pulmonary consequences of tobacco.

 

 

Source: http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1513/AnnalsATS.201212-127FR#.VjWgx1-s_CQ

 

 

I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect, but I'm going to take a professor of medicine at UCLA who specializes in studies on smoking and lung function as an authority on the subject.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Dutch01

[porkpie]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h2rI_H93uoU

[manitoubass2]

Old Man, I'm going to refer you to Dr. Donald Tashkin, Professor of Medicine at UCLA.

 

 

He studied 5,000 subjects for 20 years. His study found no increased cancer risk in light to moderate users.

 

Take his word for it:

 

"We expected that we would find that a history of heavy marijuana use--more than 500 to 1,000 uses--would increase the risk of cancer from several years to decades after exposure to marijuana," explains physician Donald Tashkin of the University of California, Los Angeles, and lead researcher on the project. But looking at residents of Los Angeles County, the scientists found that even those who smoked more than 20,000 joints in their life did not have an increased risk of lung cancer."

 

Even clearer on weed versus tobacco:

 

"Regular smoking of marijuana by itself causes visible and microscopic injury to the large airways that is consistently associated with an increased likelihood of symptoms of chronic bronchitis that subside after cessation of use. On the other hand, habitual use of marijuana alone does not appear to lead to significant abnormalities in lung function when assessed either cross-sectionally or longitudinally, except for possible increases in lung volumes and modest increases in airway resistance of unclear clinical significance. Therefore, no clear link to chronic obstructive pulmonary disease has been established. Although marijuana smoke contains a number of carcinogens and cocarcinogens, findings from a limited number of well-designed epidemiological studies do not suggest an increased risk for the development of either lung or upper airway cancer from light or moderate use, although evidence is mixed concerning possible carcinogenic risks of heavy, long-term use. Although regular marijuana smoking leads to bronchial epithelial ciliary loss and impairs the microbicidal function of alveolar macrophages, evidence is inconclusive regarding possible associated risks for lower respiratory tract infection. Several case reports have implicated marijuana smoking as an etiologic factor in pneumothorax/pneumomediastinum and bullous lung disease, although evidence of a possible causal link from epidemiologic studies is lacking. In summary, the accumulated weight of evidence implies far lower risks for pulmonary complications of even regular heavy use of marijuana compared with the grave pulmonary consequences of tobacco.

 

 

Source: http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1513/AnnalsATS.201212-127FR#.VjWgx1-s_CQ

 

 

I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect, but I'm going to take a professor of medicine at UCLA who specializes in studies on smoking and lung function as an authority on the subject.

Notice it mentions "AUTHOR AFFILIATIONS"?

 

This is important

 

And that was a good read! Thanks for that.

 

And porkpie????

Edited November 1, 2015 by manitoubass2

[solopaddler]

Anyone can find stuff on the net to either prove or disprove any point they want. Emphatically. Means zero to me.

 

An opinion like Old Man's seems more credible, at least to me.

[manitoubass2]

Anyone can find stuff on the net to either prove or disprove any point they want. Emphatically. Means zero to me.

 

An opinion like Old Man's seems more credible, at least to me.

Credible to what? To an opinion you have already formed?

 

One thing is for certain, well formed, unbiased studies need to continue.

[manitoubass2]

If anyone really wants to learn about cannabis, start brushing up on pubmed.com

 

Here is a list of components present in cannabis

 

 

(-)-[delta 1]-3,4-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol (most active cannabinoid)

(-)-[delta 6]-3,4-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol

tetrahydrocannabitriol (aka cannabitriol)

cannabidiolic acid

cannabidiol

cannabinol (forms after plant dies)

THC acids A and B (inactive unless smoked)

 

Minor constituents:

 

cannabigerol

cannabigerolic acid

cannabichromene

cannabichromenic acid

cannabicyclol (aka cannabipinol)

cannabicyclolic acid

cannabicitran

cannabielsoic acids A and B

cannabinolic acid (neutral cannabinoid)

cannabichromanon

cannabifuran

dehydrocannabifuran

2-oxo-[delta 3]-tetrahydrocannabinol

cannabigerol monomethyl ether

cannabidiol monomethyl ether

cannabinol methyl ether

propylcannabidiol (aka cannabidivarol & cannabidivarin)

propylcannabinol (aka cannabivarol & cannabivarin)

propyl-[delta 1]-THC (aka [delta 1]-tetrahydrocannabivarol & tetrahydrocannabivarin)

propylcannabigerol

propylcannabicyclol

propylcannabichromene

methylcannabidiol (aka cannabidiorcol)

methylcannabinol (aka cannabiorcol)

methyl-[delta 1]-THC (aka [delta 1]-tetrahydrocannabiorcol)

[delta 1]-tetrahydrocannabivarolic acid

 

Nitrogen-containing compounds:

 

choline

trigonelline

muscarine

piperidine

N-(p-hydroxy-B-phenylethyl)-p-hydroxy-trans-cinnamide

neurine

L-proline

L-isoleucine betaine

hordenine

cannabisativine (alkaloid found in the roots)

 

[compiled from "The Botany and Chemistry of Hallucinogens" by Schultes & Hofmann]

[lew]

I don't drink and have never used any drugs of any kind but have known lots of guys over the years that smoked joints and have never seen a problem with it. Seen far too many guys get nasty on booze & want to fight everybody in the room but never saw it with anyone smoking marijuana.

 

It's always seem pretty darned hypocritical to me that you can legally buy all the booze you want but grass is illegal.

 

Makes perfect sense to me that you should be able to go into a store and buy it just like you can buy booze.

[fish_fishburn]

Thought I would share this. My brother had a dog (Alaskan Malamute) with a skin condition. Dry flakey patches and hot spots etc. That poor dog would scratch till he bled. The vet put him on 100.00 a bag food and steroids as well as other medication. Was costing my bro a lot of money and his wife was not to happy about the money he was dropping on his dog. The Vet wasn't sure what was wrong but was making good money off of him. When one thing didn't work try something else.

 

I suggested we give the dog small amounts of weed on his food and see what happens as I had read that cannabis works for pets as well. So we got some and carboxalated (sp)it in the oven and he started to add a small amount to the dogs food. It only took a few days and the scratching stopped, within a month his skin issues were gone. I have also read that if your dog is older and they develop arthritis that small amounts of cannabis will work wonders for that as well. Go figure. Must be the cannabinoids.

[wkrp]

Ok. You guys have convinced me , "so dont bogart that joint my friends and pass it over to me"

[Dutch01]

Anyone can find stuff on the net to either prove or disprove any point they want. Emphatically. Means zero to me.

 

An opinion like Old Man's seems more credible, at least to me.

Mike, this isn't "stuff on the net". This is a professor of medicine at UCLA publishing findings in the Journal of American Medicine(1st quote) and Annals of the American Thoracic Society (2nd quote).

 

Are you seriously saying he isn't credible????

Edited November 1, 2015 by Dutch01

[Canuck]

Let's shut this thread down. It's run its course and has the risk of putting wedges in online relationships.

 

I do think the you all have been pretty amazing in this Rambling thread. For the most part Respectful. Thoughtful. Opinionated, sure. But that is what we need in this country. And I think that fishing a sport that is broadly enjoyed by all types of people income race political stripes etc.

 

But let's get back to the common ground and talk fishing.

[aplumma]

We got to get back to respecting people opinions and not attacking each other please. The rules allow for debating not personal attacks.

 

Thanks

 

 

Art

[GbayGiant]

Maybe the people you are referring to don't know your thoughts here Aplumma.

Please just say what you have a problem with and we can have it stopped.

 

That way the ones who have been trying to destroy this topic will know.

 

 

cheers

[GbayGiant]

The truth is people.

 

There is a huge reason why this is being legalized here in Canada.

Medical and recreational is only one little piece of the giant puzzle.

This is a multi trillion dollar industry which anyone can do. That is the real problem behind this little green plant.

There are lots of natural plants on this planet that see people killed every day in the name of money.

 

Time to wake up.

 

Edited November 1, 2015 by GbayGiant

[woodenboater]

Imo, we shld keep this thread open as long as we keep it clean as per art's advice. this is an important issue that will be dealt with at the federal level so it's good to keep the talk going. I've learned quite a bit from the various links posted as well and just confirms that my poor grades in chemistry were accurate

 

fwiw, I have no probs with people using m-jane and I've never in my life, seen anyone chain smoking joints. A few joints passed around at parties and that's about it.

[GbayGiant]

It's not all about getting high...

 

Cannabis used for medicine, food, fuel, paper, rope, maps, bricks, oil, paint, furniture and much more.

CANNABIS IS THE MOST VERSATILE, EFFICACIOUS PLANT
ON EARTH

Go to the Index

'Efficacious' means effective, or productive as regards the desired effect. This is particularly concerned with cannabis biomass (explained soon).

Cannabis is versatile because it has so many uses. It's uses can be traced back to thousands of years before Christ.

PRODUCTS WHICH CAN BE MADE WITH OR FROM CANNABIS (for more details see below)

medicine, fuel, paper, food, rope, maps, clothes, nets, lace, soap, sails, shoes, plastics, explosives, caulking, fiberboard, paint, sealant, methanol, gasoline, fibre for fuel, bricks, charcoal, auto bodies, packing mass, lubricants, oil for lighting, oil for fuel, oil for lights, animal food, furniture, mats, varnish, lotions, ointments, lacquer, salad dressings....

There are an estimated 50,000 commercial uses. Until about 100 years ago almost all the world's bibles maps, sails, clothes and books were made out of cannabis. Much of the world's population has survived by eating hemp seed, cooked into a porridge called 'gruel'.

CANNABIS BIOMASS

Biomass is the amount of plant material which can be converted to fuel, usually by gasification. Biomass is biologically produced material. Methanol is a biomass substance. Biomass can be converted into virtually any sort of energy.

World production of biomass has been estimated at 146 billion tons a year.

The thermochemical process which converts organic material to fuel is called pyrolysis. This consists of applying heat with little or no air. It can produce charcoal, gasses, acetone, methanol and other organic liquids known as pyrolitic fuel oil.

When the biomass of cannabis is converted to fuel there are no harmful waste products (compare with radioactive sources of energy) and there is no environmental pollution (as with fossil fuels).

The FCDA have produced their 'biomass equation' which shows that cannabis biomass is the most efficient (and potentially the cheapest and most reliable) way to produce energy.

It is estimated that up to 90% of the energy produced by the use of fossil fuels could be produced from biomass. Hemp can be converted to methane, methanol or petrol. Br ridding ourselves of the pollution factories and the resulting sulphurous smogs which are released into the atmosphere we could dramatically reduce acid rain and begin the reverse the Greenhouse Effect. Henry Ford's first Model T was designed to run on a methanol petrol produced from hemp seeds.

PAPER

75 to 90 percent of the paper used for books, maps, bibles, banknotes and newspapers, was made from hemp until about 1883. Hemp paper had been used since the first century AD, by the Chinese, and it was used in Europe since the 5th. Cannabis can be harvested in 3 to six months as compared with 30 or more years for trees. It can produce double or more fibre as wood chippings and requires no dangerous chemicals in the paper pulping processes. No chlorine is needed for bleaching and no deadly dioxins are thrown into the environment. Hemp paper will outlive even the best quality wood pulp paper or papyrus paper.

FOOD

Hemp seed is one of the easiest to produce and nutritious food crops on earth. For many centuries it was the staple food crop for most of the world. The oils produced from the seed contains the highest amount of essential fatty acids in the plant world. Hemp seed oil helped clear the human system of cholesterol. The seed itself can be ground to make a porridge - gruel - or baked into cakes or bread. Hemp seed is the single most complete food on the planet and can be grown quickly almost anywhere, yet the world is allowed to starve as a result of the often total prohibition of cannabis. During recent years, some countries, notably the Maldives, have given life sentences to people found with even three seeds, whilst in the Western world it is readily available for use as bird food and fishing bait. That alone reveals the real evil behind this senseless banning of foods

BRICKS, PLANKS, PLASTICS

Hemp is for replacing wooden materials. as it can be pressed into a variety of forms. It can be used to make furniture and beams, being stronger and more flexible than timber as well as more financially and environmentally beneficial. Isochanvre, produced in France, is a method of making a building material from the hurds of hemp, which sets into a very hard mineral state ideal for construction. Archaeologists have found a bridge in the South of France, over 1200 years old, made from a similar material. Several house have already been built from hemp bricks.

Hemp can also be used to make plastics for pipes for plumbing etc and almost any item made from plastic at this time; however, the processes involved are far less polluting.

As well as using hemp fuel for his Model T, Henry Ford used hemp plastics to build the body work.

TEXTILES

Approximately 90 percent of sails and most rigging, nets, rope, flags and sealant was made from cannabis until this century; even nappies and towels.. Even the sailors shoes and socks were produced from cannabis fibres. The original hard wearing Levi jeans were made from cannabis. In 1938 Popular Mechanics, a USA magazine, stated that hemp was the "standard fibre of the world". Clothes made from hemp are more durable yet softer than those made from cotton, a plant which requires much pesticide and fertilizer to grow. Of course the huge pharmaceutical companies who profit from these chemicals would suffer if hemp was re-introduced widely into the markets, which is one reason such a process may be slow. This profit is important to remember when examining the true reasons for the prohibition of cannabis.

PAINT, VARNISH, LACQUER

For hundreds of years hemp seed oil was used to make paints and varnishes. Some of the greatest works of art were created on canvas (incidentally a Dutch word meaning cannabis), including works of Rembrandt, Van Gogh etc.

OIL FOR LIGHTING

Until this century hemp seed oil was used to produce most of the light in the world. It burns with an even light and odes not produce the soot characteristic of modern oils. It can also be used as a lubricant.

For more detailed information on the industrial uses of cannabis / hemp, check this out.

Back to Index

Edited November 1, 2015 by GbayGiant

[manitoubass2]

We got to get back to respecting people opinions and not attacking each other please. The rules allow for debating not personal attacks.

 

Thanks

 

 

Art

Its for educational purposes art

 

Where has the thread steered wrong?

[aplumma]

I refrain from naming names if you think you are guilty assume you are. Personal comments general besmearing someones opinions are to be avoided. Telling someone their opinions are wrong is not a part of a debate. Truthfully I have no problem with debating this off fishing topic we all seem to be having fun and it is getting some facts as well as some fantasies corrected.

 

Thanks

 

Art

[BillM]

I'd like to thank the Liberals for the electricity hike that comes into effect Sunday.

 

As of Sunday:

The price for off-peak hours goes up 0.3 cents to 8.3 cents/kWh.
The price for mid-peak hours goes up 0.6 cents to 12.8 cents/kWh.
The price for on-peak hours goes up 1.4 cents to 17.5 cents/kWh.

Sunday's rate hike means that the on-peak price of electricity has jumped 77 per cent since Smart Meters became common five years ago. In November 2010, the price was 9.9 cents/kWh.

[GbayGiant]

Just know it will never go the other way.

change can be hard sometimes.

[Mister G]

Liberals never met a tax/fee or tax/fee/rate hike they didn't like......better get use to it....

[manitoubass2]

I refrain from naming names if you think you are guilty assume you are. Personal comments general besmearing someones opinions are to be avoided. Telling someone their opinions are wrong is not a part of a debate. Truthfully I have no problem with debating this off fishing topic we all seem to be having fun and it is getting some facts as well as some fantasies corrected.

 

Thanks

 

Art

Sweet! Im good to go then!

 

So lets begin taking out the pseudoscience!!!

 

For one, the tar in cannabis is highly concentrated to the leaf. Users really dont use the leaf, its the bud.

 

Tar from cannabis is FAR less than that of cigarettes, FACT.

 

Containining carcinogens(approx 3) in cannabis, is again FAR less then cigarettes. Now compare the amount of usage(lets say 3 joints vrs 24 smokes, i think thats reasonable) what is worse?

 

Also although cannabis contains carcinogens (like almost everything on earth) it also contains antioxidants and flavanoids, refined cigarettes do not

 

Now, carcinogen is a SCARY word meaning a substance that can cause cancer!!!!

 

What is cancer? A cell that behaves abnoramlly and replicates

 

So cancer is really a generic term used to describe what scientist cant.

 

Because guess what? Cells replicate all the time! They also die all the time! Amazing!!!

 

Fear mongering at its finest

 

Even your metabolism kills you as you read this, FACT!

Edited November 1, 2015 by manitoubass2

[GbayGiant]

I refrain from naming names if you think you are guilty assume you are. Personal comments general besmearing someones opinions are to be avoided. Telling someone their opinions are wrong is not a part of a debate. Truthfully I have no problem with debating this off fishing topic we all seem to be having fun and it is getting some facts as well as some fantasies corrected.

 

Thanks

 

Art

Please let the ones know who are at fault by PM

Thanks Art.

[fish_fishburn]

I think the flavonoids you are talking about is called terpenes. I could be wrong.

[manitoubass2]

I think the flavonoids you are talking about is called terpenes. I could be wrong.

Your right. Terpenes, terpanoids.

 

Also cannaflavin a, which is 30 times more potent then aspirin at inhibiting inflammation via PGE-2.

 

There are over 100 active terpenes in cannabis