Would you call 911 - Sort of fishing

[irishfield]

I've got enough to "ponder" right now Hun!!

 

Shouldn't matter who.. what... why... save their ass and tell their mother on them later!

 

As noted earlier.. it's all covered in our income taxes.. or property taxes. The municipalities budget covers it one way or another.. and BTW.. "volunteers" get paid!

[rickster]

So the ice conditions were reported unsafe and he went out anyway and needed to be rescued mmmm try this comparison ok so a fisherman is camping at a backwoods lake and finds out the day before he leaves a fire ban has been put on the area.......catches a couple nice fish and thinks ahhh i've been having campfires for forty years nothing will happen i want a shore lunch....wind comes up and mnr is called in to put out the wildfire

guess who is paying the bill

 

 

do i think the amount of this guys fine is way too much...yes

do i think he should have pay for some of the costs....absolutely

just my 2 cents

 

oh and we volunteer firefighters aren't getting rich from our "paid" calls

most of us would make more staying at work instead of going to a call

but we don't do it for the money

[irishfield]

.. of course you don't Rickster.. and that's the entire point. You do it because you want to and I've never seen anyone sent a bill for burning down half of Ontario because of an unresponsible camp fire.... despite the $5000 PER HOUR cost of a water bomber!

[porkpie]

Scugog is a volunteer fire department.

 

How do they justify the firefighter wages?

Most volunteer fire departments are anything but these days. They have to pay an hourly wage of some sort because the days of bein given a pager and being told to hop on a truck are long since over. The extra training and intrusion on family life in a halfway busy volunteer fire coverage area causes about a 3 year turn over rate in a lot of departments. The wage is to provide an incentive and aid in retention.

[rickster]

well how about these

 

MINDEN – A Kushog Lake cottager has been ordered to pay $6,745. for a fire that burned .22 hectares of the Frost Centre Management Area.

 

A resident of Toronto, plead guilty to starting the fire at his Kushog Lake cottage. He was ordered to pay fire suppression costs incurred by the Township of Algonquin Highlands and the Ministry of Natural Resources in putting out the blaze.

 

Court was told that on May 26, 2007, at approximately 2:30 p.m., the man ignited a rubbish pile on his cottage lot on Kushog Lake’s east shore. The man left the immediate vicinity of the fire and at approximately 4:30 p.m. he noticed a large plume of smoke rising up from the fire site. The man called the Algonquin Highlands fire department who extinguished the blaze that had spread into the surrounding forest.

 

A joint investigation by the ministry’s Haliburton Fire Base and Minden conservation officers revealed that no permit had been issued for the fire. There were no tools or water on site to contain the fire. The fire was started during the prohibited period and was less than two metres from flammable materials.

 

The case was heard in the Ontario Court of Justice, Minden, September 6, 2007.

 

You must not leave a fire unattended and must make sure it is completely extinguished before leaving. Anyone found responsible for causing a forest fire can be ordered to pay the costs of extinguishing the fire.

 

 

and also

 

 

August 2007 $2,400 FINE FOR LETTING A CAMPFIRE START A WILDFIRE

 

SUDBURY — Two Barrie area men were fined $1,000 each for causing a fire that burned 590 hectares of Crown land in Halfway Lake Provincial Park and along Highway 144 on the May long weekend. The cost of fighting the fire, named Sudbury 46, is estimated in excess of $1.1 million.

 

The two men plead guilty and were fined $1,000 each for failing to extinguish a campfire before leaving their site. The men were fined an additional $200 each for littering in a provincial park and for having a campfire in an area not designated for a campfire. The men were placed on probation for two years and must complete 40 hours of community service at Halfway Lake Provincial Park.

 

The court was told that on May 19, 2007, the men were camping on an island in the southern portion of Halfway Lake Provincial Park. Before leaving the park two days later the pair attempted to extinguish their campfire with water and dirt.

 

Sudbury 46 was reported on May 23, 2007 and was aggressively attacked by water bombers. The size of the fire forced the evacuation of several hundred people from homes and camps on Lake Onaping. Halfway Lake Provincial Park was evacuated and closed for two weeks. On May 24, 2007 further investigation found the two men that caused the fire.

 

The case was heard in the Ontario Court of Justice, Sudbury, on August 14, 2007.

 

The ministry reminds the public that protecting our forests from fires requires caution and extreme care. Campers should never leave fires unattended and must ensure that they are completely extinguished before leaving. The public may be required to pay the government for the costs of putting out a fire that they caused.

 

these are just two from mnr website

[lew]

The $5400 fine levied against the fisherman for getting turned around in the fog is a discusting, pathetic money grab and whoever came up with it should be ashamed of himself.

 

As for volunteer firemen being paid, my brother used to be a volunteer in Scugog Township 25 odd years ago and and if I remember correctly, received around $3000 per year, but I may be wrong on the amount.

Edited January 31, 2013 by lew

[Rich]

So basically just dont leave your house or you owe the government money then. Oh and don't stay in your house either.

[zamboniwaterboy]

No, they are saying if you unecessarily put the lives of others on the line, then you should have to pay for it. I agree 100% How many deaths have there been this year alone because guys are being irresponsible?

Fireman are paid to put their lives in danger.

[zamboniwaterboy]

Two hours for labour and truck time, the poor guy would have been an ice cube! Maybe they should work on their response time.

I do believe we need a system to warn fisherman of ice conditions and if they do not yield then perhaps a fine. This bill seems crazy steep!

[Rich Nelson]

 

Fireman are paid to put their lives in danger.

And all this time I thought they did their jobs just for fun...

[Garnet]

In the news report 15 firefighters stood around well a few did the rescue. Should victums pay for firefighter training.

[BillM]

The $5400 fine levied against the fisherman for getting turned around in the fog is a discusting, pathetic money grab and whoever came up with it should be ashamed of himself.

 

 

 

Agreed Lew... I wonder if they fine the families who has lost elderly that have wandered off in the woods? Happens all the time, lol.

[Rustic-Fisher]

In the news report 15 firefighters stood around well a few did the rescue. Should victums pay for firefighter training.

 

I would'nt believe everything you hear on the news LOL

And victims / residents already do pay for training of firefighters. That's why you pay taxes!!

 

[SirCranksalot]

From another report:
"Scugog Fire Chief Richard Miller says while this is the first such invoice there, the township north of Oshawa has had the ability to issue them for years."

It sounds like things changed after the rash of incidents on Lake Skidoobegone a few years back.

[Rich]

So can I pay a premium rate for better rescue services?

 

This is somewhat similar to the privatization of emergency services. Only instead of a company making the money, the government is.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Rich

[Garnet]

So why are they paying twice

[snackpack5150]

So the question posed "this would make people think twice about calling emergency services when they're in trouble". How about thinking about what youre going to do prior to heading out. Would you launch your boat in a lighting and thunderstorm.

[strik]

Would you drive your car through a stop sign ??? NO but lots do

 

Bottom line people make stupid decisions everyday.

 

What common sense to us is not common to others

[fishnsled]

The $5400 fine levied against the fisherman for getting turned around in the fog is a discusting, pathetic money grab and whoever came up with it should be ashamed of himself.

 

That would be the creative politicians that were elected trying to find other ways to make the budget and give themselves a raise.

 

 

A few years back? This is nothing new.

 

People have been swamping vehicles in the bog since they built the dam at Lindsay.

 

Yep, pretty much every year there is someone that goes through around the pressure cracks.

 

All of this is just coming down to votes I would bet. A few people upset with these rescues and don't want their tax dollars used for it. See what happens when they get a bill for a car accident and clean up or something else. There is a lot of grey area that they want to add some colour to here and set the precedent for future costs. Just another tax grab on top of the taxes we pay for these things already. Should there be a fine? Perhaps. Paying the total bill, I don't think so.

[johnnyb]

I really think I would think twice before calling 911 in light of this. No matter what the temperature or conditions, I feel I would be branded as careless and negligent, and that I should have known better.

 

I wonder how many other people were on the ice that night, when Neil R. got disoriented? I would be willing to bet he wasn't the only one out there.

I wonder why so many firefighters were sent, when he was already on shore? Was it poor communication with the dispatcher? Were they being extra cautious? Could be a good reason....but I still wonder why so many personnel got sent for a guy who was lost in the fog, and already on shore.

 

How come 26 fishermen that got rescued by air boats and helicopters (last spring) paid $200 each? 200 x 26 = $5200. Sounds like a pretty good deal for all that highpowered equipment compared to what Neil got.

 

If he was out there hopping pressure cracks....if he was the only person who ventured on the ice that day....if he drove a vehicle out....then ok....I would be saying he had it coming.

 

But he went out, and came back, and the ice was fine. He got lost in the fog, and wandered into a marshy area....marshy areas have bad ice even when the rest of the lake is good.

 

He called emergency services, and they did their job. They did what the township pays for them to do.

[jimmer]

Isn't this why we have fire, ems and rescue services? They are covered by our taxes already.

Yes, it was probably a bad decision to go out on the ice that day, a worst decision was to walk close to bullrushes, where the ice is rarely stable.

Are they going to charge a 7 year-old after being rescued out of a river after he slipped on some ice and went in? I doubt it. So why are they trying to set an example with this guy?

Most people will make somekind of mistake in their life, that's why we have those services and pay a large amount of taxes to support them.

Just a few thoughts.

[lew]

Most people will make somekind of mistake in their life, that's why we have those services and pay a large amount of taxes to support them.

Just a few thoughts.

 

My sentiments exactly.

[pylon]

I don't know what the fire services are at scugog but a volunteer department is just that working men/ women that work. They get paid per call usually by the insurance companies ( fire ) municipalities can't pay for full timers

[Rich Nelson]

My guess is that they are making an example out of him. Several guys saying they would think twice about calling 911 now ( which I dont believe for a second)

Maybe it will make people think twice about makin stupid decisions like going out on unsafe ice.

Then again, you cant fix stupid....

[DRIFTER_016]

Sinclair

Here in Yellowknife the town charges to recoup $$$$ from fire calls.

One fellow 2 years ago was complaining about the $8000 invoice he was given to cover OT costs for the fire fighters that battled the fire that destroyed his $800,000 house. Even though his insurance would eventually cover the cost.