Reelaction Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 you guys remeber the retired school principal who fell through the ice after being disoriented on Lake Scugog. Here's what he gets to deal with now. http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/01/30/stranded_scugog_ice_fisherman_first_to_be_charged_for_fire_department_rescue_539278.html We can all say what we want about people making poor decissions about unsafe ice conditions. We all have our own level of safety based on our own experiences or observations. I for one don't think a user fee for 911 services is right. The man's life was in peril. Regardless of how he got there, there was a need for it. Could the same argument not be made for hundreds of other leisure activities that incorperate some level of risk. From skiing to hiking, swimming or snowmobiles. All of these activities are an unnecessary part of life that incorperate danger. Will these activities be next on the list for user fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 So basically they're saying if you fall through the ice you deserve to lay there and die because you're stupid for ice fishing no matter what. If some dude in an outdoor hockey rink went through, the leafs would have a fundraiser. Stupid Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleDigits Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I can't understand the folks who scream for fines for people who go through the ice. Saving a recreational fisherman from drowning or freezing to death sounds like a good use of tax dollars/government resources to me. And no, I don't actually care if the guy is 'stupid', an 'idiot', or 'crazy'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torco Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I see pros and cons to both sides...Its nice to try and deter people from doing stupid things. Full disclaimer, I actually know Neil, he was first person to ever take me ice fishing when I was a kid. He was a very kind man and a good teacher. Obviously made a mistake that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 As if it would deter anyone from ice fishing. Losing their life wasn't a good enough deterrent, but wow $5000 is steep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Lets say a guy has a gun to my head, hostage situation. I call 911, SWAT comes and gets the guy. Do I have to pay a fine for putting the police's lives in danger?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Nelson Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 So basically they're saying if you fall through the ice you deserve to lay there and die because you're stupid for ice fishing no matter what. If some dude in an outdoor hockey rink went through, the leafs would have a fundraiser. Stupid Earth. No, they are saying if you unecessarily put the lives of others on the line, then you should have to pay for it. I agree 100% How many deaths have there been this year alone because guys are being irresponsible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccmtcanada Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Lets say a guy has a gun to my head, hostage situation. I call 911, SWAT comes and gets the guy. Do I have to pay a fine for putting the police's lives in danger?? I think the point is that authorities were publicly warning people that the ice was unsafe and not to venture out. The situation you outline, you had no reasonable knowledge that you'd become a hostage. Not saying a fine is the right way to go, but the lines can and WILL blur very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 No, they are saying if you unecessarily put the lives of others on the line, then you should have to pay for it. I agree 100% How many deaths have there been this year alone because guys are being irresponsible? And who is the judge of how responsible they were? This guy was a teacher who ice fished there for 30 years. Fog was the issue. I think the lesson to bring a GPS next time is what he needed to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I think the point is that authorities were publicly warning people that the ice was unsafe and not to venture out. The situation you outline, you had no reasonable knowledge that you'd become a hostage. Not saying a fine is the right way to go, but the lines can and WILL blur very quickly. Okay. So if I walked into a gang neighbourhood and started calling people on, I would get and deserve a fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccmtcanada Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Okay. So if I walked into a gang neighbourhood and started calling people on, I would get and deserve a fine? Like I said, the lines blur quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SylvanOwner Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Scugog is a volunteer fire department. How do they justify the firefighter wages? Actually the term "volunteer" when applied to firefighting is a lot misleading. Even though they are "volunteer" they get paid for the calls they respond to. In a backwards sort of way this is the only thing that actually makes sense about the bill. If this had happened somewhere where they had full-time firefighters then no matter what they're doing they are working and being paid, the budget is in place and this incident would represent no additional cost to the municipality other than the fuel required to respond to the call. The charge for the firetrucks is harder to justify IMHO, the trucks are bought and paid for, even if they get no use whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I've said this before but.. if you went by what the authorities call safe ice - the ice would NEVER be safe. They give out the unsafe ice reports to cover their bums. EVERY time somebody goes through the ice, the first thing stated is 'they were warned' .... Well yah when everyday of the year the warning is dont go on the ice - i guess we've all been warned and deserve our fate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper D Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I can't help but look at it this way also , Who was the smart one who decided to send 4 firetrucks and 15 firefighters to pull one man up onto the bank to saftey ?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I can't help but look at it this way also , Who was the smart one who decided to send 4 firetrucks and 15 firefighters to pull one man up onto the bank to saftey ?????? .... Who only fell in to his waist... Obviously was still relatively dry if he pulled out his cell to call 911.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Okay. So if I walked into a gang neighbourhood and started calling people on, I would get and deserve a fine? You'd deserve a Darwin award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reelaction Posted January 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 There are alot of problems with the bill this guy got. And Rich is right. Who is the authority that called the ice unsafe. All ice is unsafe. Roads are unsafe, schools are unsafe. Safety is a matter of judgement. Judgements based on past history, experience, research and how prepared you are to deal with an emergency. If this guy is forced to pay the bill, what recreational activity will be next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solopaddler Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Okay. So if I walked into a gang neighbourhood and started calling people on, I would get and deserve a fine? No, but you'd get a well deserved beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reelaction Posted January 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I can't help but look at it this way also , Who was the smart one who decided to send 4 firetrucks and 15 firefighters to pull one man up onto the bank to saftey ?????? No kidding Skipper. Maybe they should look to that guy to figure out why their firefighting budgets are out of whack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 You'd deserve a Darwin award. Lol, for sure. But is the stupidity of the event the deciding factor? Like I said, who is the judge? Surely calling people on in a gang neighborhood would be stupid. Is ice fishing in less than optimal conditions just as stupid? If so, why aren't there fines for ALL rescue services? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 No, but you'd get a well deserved beating. Funny enough, you say I'd deserve it, but who would be charged in this crime? Certainly not the guy using words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oggie Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 No, they are saying if you unecessarily put the lives of others on the line, then you should have to pay for it. I agree 100% How many deaths have there been this year alone because guys are being irresponsible? OK. So if you cause the Municipality any cost because of your own stupidity then you get the bill! I'm all for billing the drivers that drive at unsafe speeds when the road conditions are unsafe. Once the OPP lays a charge at an accident scene then the driver who is convicted (at least this guy gets a court appearance unlike the guy lost on the ice) should pay for the tow trucks, EMS, fire rescue and even the OPP response. The unsafe driver was warned about the unsafe road conditions and chose to drive at an unsafe speed. Nail his/her ass with a bill! REALLY dangerous precedent here guys! Dan O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopheraaron Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I don't see where any rescue team was put in danger. He said that he was on shore when he called, he was already out of the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Lol, for sure. But is the stupidity of the event the deciding factor? Like I said, who is the judge? Surely calling people on in a gang neighborhood would be stupid. Is ice fishing in less than optimal conditions just as stupid? If so, why aren't there fines for ALL rescue services? I think there's a difference between looking for trouble and accidentally finding it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Scugog is a volunteer fire department. How do they justify the firefighter wages? how do they justify the firefighter wages for someone trapped in a car or a kid that climbs a tree and can't get down or te drunk that falls or the speeder that wipes out hell a false alarm at a school only costs one hundred bucks to the school....... even a fire how do they justify the firefighter wages? I see no difference....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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