Rich Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Anyone defending this ruling I judge as stupid, therefore they owe me money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey buoy Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 If I crash my motorcycle because It was raining are they going to send me the bill? Probably send the bill to your insurance company.You will pay one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirCranksalot Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I can see where there are 2 sides to this argument: the right one and the wrong one. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I put in an order for a rescue air boat..and I am going to start an ice rescue service....they charge 5000.00 a rescue, i will charge 2000 bucks a rescue wonder if I can get a number like 822 or *911 or 1800in the water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemper Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 For those who think the fine is wrong, do you also think paying for an alpine rescue is wrong if you are skiing OOB? Just curious, I can't see a difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 I wonder if this guy is a member of OFAH, he may be able to get some legal help from them. I think for skiing there is insurance you can buy in case you need a rescue the insurance covers it. I really see no difference between an Ice rescue and a skiing OOB rescue. However I can see both sides of the equation and after 6 pages I am still torn on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 I put in an order for a rescue air boat..and I am going to start an ice rescue service....they charge 5000.00 a rescue, i will charge 2000 bucks a rescue wonder if I can get a number like 822 or *911 or 1800in the water haha good idea.... better buy the domain name cheaprescue.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 and I see all rescues as the same..equal... so all should pay or no one should pay can you image..you 8 year old son sticks his tongue on a frozen fence post and his tongue sticks...2 fire trucks and 8 men show up to free him and you get a 5000.00 bill from the fire dept. get use to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocoda Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 I think everyone here is missing the point ....We pay for firefighters and cops through our tax dollars....whether they are sitting on their asses or being dropped from a helicopter to save a person stuck on the side of a cliff..... my point is..... Cops and Firemen are paid well to do what they are supposed to do.....if they dont like it because of a degree of safety....Quit....The general public isnt going to change from its percentage of stupidity....for everyone that manages to win the Darwin award....there is another born to succeed him....If they dont want to be subjected to high occupational hazzards...get a different job If im going ice fishing .....I know...they have already been paid to save my ass if something go wrong.... For the record.....I dont ice fish.....but i do LOTS of other stuff.....so for all the people that have never used the services for rescue...shouldnt they get a tax break???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustic-Fisher Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Or someone has the big one dragging your gear up that hellish slope at Bear Point, and a truck with four firefighters, and the another truck( EMS) staffed with advanced ALS medics ( 2) tries to save their life. Don't forget Police, they,ll also be helping, securing your valuables, gathering info in order to contact a relative or friend, and helping mitigate traffic to get someone outta there quick. I'd pay for that! And you do it's built into your taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustic-Fisher Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 I think everyone here is missing the point ....We pay for firefighters and cops through our tax dollars....whether they are sitting on their asses or being dropped from a helicopter to save a person stuck on the side of a cliff..... my point is..... Cops and Firemen are paid well to do what they are supposed to do.....if they dont like it because of a degree of safety....Quit....The general public isnt going to change from its percentage of stupidity....for everyone that manages to win the Darwin award....there is another born to succeed him....If they dont want to be subjected to high occupational hazzards...get a different job If im going ice fishing .....I know...they have already been paid to save my ass if something go wrong.... For the record.....I dont ice fish.....but i do LOTS of other stuff.....so for all the people that have never used the services for rescue...shouldnt they get a tax break???? Thanks, guys like you are guaranteed job security for emergency services LOL!! What you have to realize is that in any scenario you put the public at risk. Example, guys out fishing 75 yards from you go threw the ice, you likely just don't watch, human nature ( most times) says you try and help. The result is joe public also risking his life to help someone in distress. Emergency services aren't the only one risking their lives. Look at the big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeXXington Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 So if the rescue team and all there buddies arrive but you don't need them. Do you get to tell them, to go home. Sort of like a tow truck drive cruising around to make some cash.. Terry has all the arguments.. Next time they announce a major snow storm and dangerousness road conditions. The 1000000 drivers here in the GTA that get in accidents should be billed for every cop, fire truck , and emergency responder that shows up bet this nonsense would stop the first day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) Don't forget the last time I checked you have to pay for other emergency services like taking an ambulance. 45 dollars last time I checked if its an emergency and 250 if its not. I mean if I drop of a heart attack and get a ride in an ambulance and need to pay than why shouldn't a person pay if they are ice fishing? I am not sure what the deal is with fire rescue. Edited January 31, 2013 by jedimaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 they charge 50 bucks for the ambulance etc a far cry from 5000.00 they want to charge icefishermen next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) That's just for ambulance... for fire you are responsible for the full cost. Its up to the municipality as to what the charges are. http://www.mississauga.ca/file/COM/firefees2011.pdf The caveat that people don't know is that in a car accident your car insurance company gets the bill, if its on your property fire response is covered under you house insurance afaik. So when you are out on your own off your property you are fair game for getting a bill. That's why they have emergency response insurance for back country skiers. Its like 3 dollars a day. OFAH should really jump on this as an opportunity. Edited January 31, 2013 by jedimaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigugli Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) I can see the fine for going out on poor ice and being rescued. The amount, however, is absurd. Heck, I've paid out for some 40+ ambulance trips over the past 3 years for family members. It hurts the pocket, but it does not stop me from calling 911. Emergency services have evolved considerably from 30-40 years back. Back then, community members were called upon to search for missing boaters and ice travellers. Methods and equipment are far more advanced. Due to liability concerns, they do not call on local volunteers. Risks still exist. I get a knot in my stomach every time my nephew gets called out on marine rescue, and it does burn bad when I hear he is risking his life for someone who disregarded weather and condition warnings. Edited January 31, 2013 by bigugli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 then I guess we need on ice rescue insurance so we don't get billed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocoda Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 That's just for ambulance... for fire you are responsible for the full cost. Its up to the municipality as to what the charges are. http://www.mississauga.ca/file/COM/firefees2011.pdf The caveat that people don't know is that in a car accident your car insurance company gets the bill Ice fishing safety course.....100 bucks will get you a license that says you know better...when in doubt...dont go out unless you have ice fishing insurance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) Here is an example of a skiers insurance company, I got it one time when I was snowboarding heli style... The operators tell you about it. I think that is what its going to come down to in the end. That ice fisherman will need to carry ice fishing rescue insurance. That's with I mention ofah. heck it may even be part of the ofah insurance policy as it is. http://www.holidayguard.com/Ski-Insurance.html Edited January 31, 2013 by jedimaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) However I totally agree that the bill this guy got is WAY WAY WAY overboard. I mean why did port perry send out every friggin firetruck for a guy with a busted up leg and soaking wet on shore? That part makes no sense to me. Getting a bill imo is justified... the amount however is way way high imo I mean I would be showing up in court with words like "Gross Negligence" and "Misappropriate of Funds" The base argument here is should an ice fisherman pay for rescue. I ice fish regularly and I have to admit I think I probably should pay, but I think there should be the option for insurance coverage or the option to do community service in lieu of payment. Edited January 31, 2013 by jedimaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 For those who think the fine is wrong, do you also think paying for an alpine rescue is wrong if you are skiing OOB? Just curious, I can't see a difference Yes. There is no difference and that would be just as wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlpaintballer Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Table an idiot law. If you are rescued and the responders think you deserve it, charge you with endangering lives due to idiocy. You get your say in court, fines, community service, or you might be found innocent. IMHO +13 for 2 days with already crap ice means don't go out there. I'm sure the news of people going thru the ice on simcoe the night before was everywhere, but he still went. 99 percent of us would not go out on that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Does the OFAH Angler Insurance cover this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Not sure, but here is the details from there website... I think a call to ofah is in order. OFAH Members Public Liability Insurance [ Membership Benefits ]SGI Canada through the Great North Wildlife Affiliates Ontario, in partnership with the provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba have jointly formed the GNWA (Great North Wildlife Affiliates) and are pleased to offer a Personal Liability, Club Liability, Range Liability and Accidental Death Coverages Program. This insurance coverage is specifically designed for anglers and hunters who join as members of the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters. When the OFAH head office receives your membership fees, the following coverage begins and covers you while engaged in activities such as hunting, fishing, skeet, trap or target shooting, archery, conservation work, non-commercial trapping and camping in connection with the above noted activities. Please see declaration of insurance for more. $3,000,000 for Public Liability including defence and investigation charges ($250 deductible on property damage claims) $1,000 for reasonable medical expenses if you accidentally injure someone else. There is also $10,000 in case for forest fire fighting expense. The above coverage is excess to any other liability coverage that you currently have (ie. your home owner's insurance). If you do not have home owner's insuranceof your home owner's policy denies coerage, this coverage becomes primary coverage. This policy provides no coverage for automobiles, boats, motors, ATV's or snowmobiles, as this is typically provided through a home and/or auto insurance policy. There's More! In addition to the above coverage, OFAH members in good standing are also covered for: $5,000 in insurance for accidental death or dismemberment that results while engaged in activities such as hunting, fishing, skeet, trap or target shooting, archery, conservation work, non-commercial trapping and conservation activities. $3000 Accidental Dental Expense $50 daily hospital cash (up to max. $1,500) $15,000 rehabilitation benefit $15,000 occupational training for spouse of deceased member (all of the above subject to policy wordings, terms and conditions) $15,000 Death Repatriation Note: This is for all members in good standing that are injured while engaged in the activities described above. The Plan covers: OFAH member anywhere in Canada The spouse and depended children (under the age of 21) if a Family Membership has been taken out with the OFAH Optional Coverages Available: Club Comprehensive General Liability for club and OFAH related activities ($3,000,000 limit). Range Liability covering all shooting range members ($3,000,000 limit). D&O Liability Coverage ($2,000,000 limit) Optional $2,000,000 Umbrella Liability Note: For all Club liability insurance questions, please contact the OFAH Club Services representative at head office. For more details contact: Ontario Federation of Anglers & HuntersPO Box 2800Peterborough, ONK9J 8L5Phone: 705-748-6324Fax: 705-748-9577 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 So what if someone had seen him fall through the ice and THEY called 911, and then all those fire trucks and rescue people showed up and when they got there, just like this time, he was already on shore! Would he be liable for the fine or would the innocent, worried bystander be liable because they called 911??? Something to ponder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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