HST PASSED

[Dara]

Actually, I think this will help bussineses. Manufacturers anyway

 

Right now, GST is basically a wash till you get to the last guy.

When a manufacturer buys raw material, they pay GST on it, when they sell the finished product, they charge GST at the added value. To submit GST to the feds, they take what they charged in GST and subtract what they paid out. This is what they hand the government. Basically, none of their own money. They also charge PST and hand it over as well.

Now when they buy equipment, or put up a building, they pay GST and PST on these purchases. PST exempt does not mean PST exempt on everything. Just get audited once and see how it works out. A side note PST auditors are contracted and paid based on the extra taxes they collect...they always get their time paid for (you think CO's are bad..try a PST auditor)

The PST they pay is gone...money out of their pocket, the GST is just accounted for the same as any material purchase. A wash.

With the HST everything is a wash. They save an automatic 8% on all buildings, equipment, vehichle purchases, leases, everything they now pay PST on.

 

So, manufacturing saves big time, we the people foot the bill.

Suposedly there will be no HST on housing under $400k. I gotta see how this works, because that would mean no GST either which would be a big savings for a lot of housing.

 

Somebody please tell me if I am wrong with my assumptions.

[bigugli]

If they don't get enough out of the consumer this time, they'll just start taxing groceries next. Either way the consumer bleeds.

[Dara]

There isn't much more to get the way I see it. My property taxes went up 10% this year with the new assesments.

Another crock of crap

[Cookslav]

If they don't get enough out of the consumer this time, they'll just start taxing groceries next. Either way the consumer bleeds.

 

Give that man a cigar....

It really does not matter how you slice it...we the consumer pay, and pay the taxes, and then pay some more.

And the more we do, the less we have for commerce.

Simple mathmatics...

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to get it.

 

The Liberal plan has so many rules, loop holes, and jargin to decifer it has everyone confused, but at the end of the day the common denominator is the working man pays more tax which leaves us with less money in our pocket and nothing in return.

[splashhopper]

I can tell you right now that I am not a business that is happy to see this. It's going to makes things go from bad to worse really fast.

 

 

Mine too ..

www.TheGroutDoctor.ca

[backbay]

It's about self-interest. All politicians know that increasing taxes hurt countries and economies, and most of them know that New Zealand avoided bankruptcy by slashing taxes in the 1980s, which resulted in a flourishing economy.

Big taxes make for big government, and big budgets for ministries, and our elected representatives like that, regardless of the consequences.

[BITEME]

Grabbing my ankles

I hope i get lube for Christmas

 

TAXD2DTH

[Governator]

This is going to hurt my business!!! I hate it with a passion. I've run a web development business for 6 years and we are expanding in January. Tacking on an additional 8% for our type of service can only hurt us. Often clients are working with strict budgets in our industry which means we may have to reduce our own price by 8% at times to fit within their overall budget.

 

The small guys, contractors, service men, etc. are going to hurt from this big time if they haven't enough from the poor economy.

Edited December 10, 2009 by Governator

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

this thread is full of anger of this, yet why is it that the natives and the ndp are the only ones actually doing something about it...(and I know for a fact very few of your are native or ndp)...

 

i even saw someone first complain about hst, then in the next breath complain that the natives had blocked the highway over it!

 

DO SOMETHING!

 

and I say thing in every political thread but "remember this come election time and vote responsibly"

Edited December 10, 2009 by Dr. Salvelinus

[DRIFTER_016]

Please explain this HST thing to me since I don't live there any more.

They are combining the GST and PST and putting it on everything now?

Where are they doing this? Across the country?

I guess it only effects those provinces that have a sales tax to begin with right?

There is no talk of it up here in the NWT, I guess because we don't have a sales tax only GST.

I guess provinces like Alberta that also don't have a sales tax don't need to worry either huh?

[jimmer]

So, two pages of posts and still no explanation of how any of us will benefit. McGuinty was quoted as saying that he has not heard of anyone that is oppossed to the HST. I guess he isn't an OFC member for one and he doesn't read letters to the editors in the various papers. There was quite the smug looking photo of Dwigth Duncan in the paper today. He just makes my blood boil. They are all so condescending to think they we pions don't understand economics.

I certainly understand economics in small town Ontario when I see the doors of the local stores closing up on a regular basis and there is only one thing going to happen when the HST is impossed. There will be further closures. Plain and simple.

I would love to do something about this now, but I don't play in the same league at this point, but will have my say come election day. The sad part of it is that it will be too late at that point and I can't see another party dropping a cash cow. Did someone mention mafia???

[Fishnwire]

This is a perfect example of how we only live under the illusion of democracy, but don't actually enjoy its benefits. Nobody but big business wanted or will benefit from this, there was a public outcry surrounding it, opposing political parties on two layers of government had to get on the same page to make it happen and very few people seem to be clear on the actual details, but "our" government rammed it through anyway. Why? Who asked for it? Who does it benefit?

 

It makes me laugh that we are trying to foster democracy half-way across the globe when we don't even live under one ourselves.

[Governator]

Please explain this HST thing to me since I don't live there any more.

They are combining the GST and PST and putting it on everything now?

Where are they doing this? Across the country?

I guess it only effects those provinces that have a sales tax to begin with right?

There is no talk of it up here in the NWT, I guess because we don't have a sales tax only GST.

I guess provinces like Alberta that also don't have a sales tax don't need to worry either huh?

 

 

Ontario and BC are changing the sales tax system to just 1 tax Harmonized Tax combining GST & PST. The maritimes I believe have already done this years ago and most other countries have done it as well. However, all of your general services here such as contractors, painters, carpet installers, lawncare, snow removal, etc. will be forced to charge PST in addition to the GST starting July 1st. Currently PST is only charged when selling products and now will be tacked on to all services.

[mbosh1980]

well I guess writing that letter to my mpp didn't do much good...

[bigugli]

this thread is full of anger of this, yet why is it that the natives and the ndp are the only ones actually doing something about it...(and I know for a fact very few of your are native or ndp)...

 

i even saw someone first complain about hst, then in the next breath complain that the natives had blocked the highway over it!

 

DO SOMETHING!

 

and I say thing in every political thread but "remember this come election time and vote responsibly"

 

Support your local underground economy and save yourself some money. Deprive the government of those dollars whenever possible.

[scuro2]

Actually, I think this will help bussineses. Manufacturers anyway

 

Right now, GST is basically a wash till you get to the last guy.

When a manufacturer buys raw material, they pay GST on it, when they sell the finished product, they charge GST at the added value. To submit GST to the feds, they take what they charged in GST and subtract what they paid out. This is what they hand the government. Basically, none of their own money. They also charge PST and hand it over as well.

Now when they buy equipment, or put up a building, they pay GST and PST on these purchases. PST exempt does not mean PST exempt on everything. Just get audited once and see how it works out. A side note PST auditors are contracted and paid based on the extra taxes they collect...they always get their time paid for (you think CO's are bad..try a PST auditor)

The PST they pay is gone...money out of their pocket, the GST is just accounted for the same as any material purchase. A wash.

With the HST everything is a wash. They save an automatic 8% on all buildings, equipment, vehichle purchases, leases, everything they now pay PST on.

 

So, manufacturing saves big time, we the people foot the bill.

Suposedly there will be no HST on housing under $400k. I gotta see how this works, because that would mean no GST either which would be a big savings for a lot of housing.

 

Somebody please tell me if I am wrong with my assumptions.

 

Wow, someone who has a handle on this issue and doesn't resort to "Sun Media" hyperbole at the drop of a hat. Thank you for posting your informed information.

[Headhunter]

Don't forget guys, your fuel prices will be rising 8% as soon as the tax takes affect.

So, based on todays gas prices, we will be paying close to a dollar a litre, for the same gas that today costs about $.92. And don't forget that this tax on fuel will be a tax on not just the fuel, but the numerous taxes already being paid on the fuel... at tax on a tax ona a tax!

Real good timing Daulton!

HH

[Dara]

This is going to hurt my business!!! I hate it with a passion. I've run a web development business for 6 years and we are expanding in January. Tacking on an additional 8% for our type of service can only hurt us. Often clients are working with strict budgets in our industry which means we may have to reduce our own price by 8% at times to fit within their overall budget.

 

The small guys, contractors, service men, etc. are going to hurt from this big time if they haven't enough from the poor economy.

 

As far as I see it, as long as your customers have something to sell, the 8% just gets passed on.

 

If we all start a guiding service and charge HST to our customers, all the HST we pay to run the service is an in and out figure. You make no money, you pay no tax

[carp-starter]

I cannot understand why the PST portion of the HST cannot cover just the stuff on which we already paid PST. Then I would not care since I am already paying 8% PST on these products. But now everything - just about - will be taxed 8% PST.

 

What these "you can use the choice word here" PC politicians are doing is what they had done with the GST - tax what was not taxed before.

 

It is nothing but a tax grab. The idiots do not understand that our pockets have no extra money. Many people are not employed. Most do not get salary increases. North America and the world are in a financial mess. And we get taxed an extra 8%. I wonder if property taxes will be taxed?

 

I have voted for the PCs since my transfer to the GTA in 1981. The only exception has been the last election - I did not vote for the PCs and Harper.

 

But I did vote and it was not for the Liberals. How could I have voted for a leader like Dion? But today’s leader is no better.

 

The reason I voted was to be able to complain. Remember what people say - "if you have not voted, then you have no right to complain. On Election Day, the PCs phoned me 3 times to make sure that I vote and to ask me if I needed help in getting to the poll station. I guess they were desperate for every vote.

 

I will never again vote for the federal PCs. Decrease the 7% GST by 1% and 1% (which I never saw) and now make me pay an extra 8% PST – which I will see and feel and so will other working people. This NEW math does not work for me. So my goal will be to take Harper down next election.

 

carp-starter

 

To Harper -

[jimmer]

Wow, someone who has a handle on this issue and doesn't resort to "Sun Media" hyperbole at the drop of a hat. Thank you for posting your informed information.

A Liberal eh?

None of this HST helps the consumer who does not get cost of living raises every year like politicians and some others do. I will have to cut out something in my daily life. That will hurt whoever I was planning on purchasing something from. I'm sure there are many more in my situation; unless you can show me how this helps consumers.

Yes we need taxes to provide services, but we don't need them to waste this money on initiatives such as E-Health to name one little mistake the Liberals have made with our hard earned tax $$$$$.

[timmeh]

I will never again vote for the federal PCs. Decrease the 7% GST by 1% and 1% (which I never saw) and now make me pay an extra 8% PST – which I will see and feel and so will other working people. This NEW math does not work for me. So my goal will be to take Harper down next election.

 

To Harper -

 

One of the few people who actually understands this a CONSERVATIVE ploy. You can blame Dalton all you guys want but you should realize his hand was forced by the feds. They're just allowing the liberals to take the blame from the public (and they're doing a good job of it too).

 

And I'm not a pro-liberal person either but... if you're going to blame someone for this at least make sure it's the right people.

Edited December 10, 2009 by timmeh

[JohnF]

Suposedly there will be no HST on housing under $400k. I gotta see how this works, because that would mean no GST either which would be a big savings for a lot of housing.

 

The way I understand it is going to work is there will be a rebate on new homes under $400k of 6%. IOW the HST will be 7% for housing under $400K. Then the rebate will drop between $400 - $500K and there will be no rebate over $500K. Of course as always the explanations are so obfuscated it's hard to be sure what they really are saying. At the end of the day it looks like we'll pay $28,000 tax on a $400,000 house. Here's where it gets tricky. As I understand it the 8% has been factored into the selling price of the house up till now so if (and that's a big if) the developer/builder is honest about his pricing and leaves the old tax calculation out of the final price then the home buyer will about break even under the proposed system. However, if the builder/developer makes no adjustment to the selling price then the consumer will be paying an extra $16,000. Please don't ask me to go thru the math to get there again.

 

JF

[jimmer]

Okay, they're all at fault. It would be nice if our provincial government would learn how to handle the tax dollars and not waste them, then maybe they could stand up to the Feds.

I think the bottom line is that tax payers are fed up with the waste and the arrogance of all politicians and then they have the nerve come to us for more when the trough is empty. I really believe that they should have to walk in some of our shoes before they make decisions that impact all walks of life. We have many individuals, neighbours, friends and family that live close to or below the poverty line and the HST is not going to help, it doesn't matter who's to blame.

I don't however, have a problem blaming Dalton. He is after all the leader of the party. I'll lay money on it that he doesn't look at the price of gas before he pulls into a gas station.

Thanks for letting me vent, as I feel that this is going to have a huge impact on me personally, as well as many others that I know.

[torco]

This is an interesting thread for a fishing forum! As an accountant I usually come and read the threads as a break from working on things like this HST stuff .

 

There is alot of misinformation and lack of information out there on HST which is evident by many of the posts. In theory the idea of a harmonized tax makes sense, it saves administrative costs for businesses, tax credits for businesses, etc. However, theory(strategy) and action(execution) are often quite the opposite.

 

The current governments (federal & provincial) have failed on the action part on a number of fronts.

 

Firstly details are sketchy and not easy to come by even if you know where to look or attend courses put out by the accounting firms because their simply we and are not enough details available.

 

Second, no question the consumer gets this in the teeth especially on necessities like natural gas for heating your home. The exemptions should have continued to apply in my opinion or they could have looked at a reduction in rates which has been done elsewhere.

 

Third, the way it has been setup will not make the administrative burden easier on businesses because we will still have to track the taxes separately so its more of harmonization on the front end but still split on the back end.

 

So what are the benefits:

 

Assuming sales don't decline business's win big with more tax credits to claim on their monthly gst (soon to be HST) returns and that's really it

 

Apparently we will see other business tax custs and personal income tax cuts and rebate cheques which were included in the bill ( I don't know the details so I can't say how good they are)

 

Drawbacks:

 

Well consumer costs on many items go up 8% (including necessities in my opinion) at a time when alot of people can't even get a cost of living increase.

 

A more complex tax administration system as a result of new rules.

 

Increased costs at the ministry if they are going to be cutting cheques to all the residents of ontario who pay taxes since physically cutting and mailing cheques aren't cheap.

 

Well hopefully that was somewhat informative for people and gave some new perspective and insight. I kind of just rambled on, I'm not trying to be political nor do I see have political aspirations for one party or another.

[Dara]

The way I understand it is going to work is there will be a rebate on new homes under $400k of 6%. IOW the HST will be 7% for housing under $400K. Then the rebate will drop between $400 - $500K and there will be no rebate over $500K. Of course as always the explanations are so obfuscated it's hard to be sure what they really are saying. At the end of the day it looks like we'll pay $28,000 tax on a $400,000 house. Here's where it gets tricky. As I understand it the 8% has been factored into the selling price of the house up till now so if (and that's a big if) the developer/builder is honest about his pricing and leaves the old tax calculation out of the final price then the home buyer will about break even under the proposed system. However, if the builder/developer makes no adjustment to the selling price then the consumer will be paying an extra $16,000. Please don't ask me to go thru the math to get there again.

 

JF

 

Its ok...I'm with you now. I didn't know about the 6% rebate.

I am a construction estimator for structural steel and right now I add 8% PST on material and shop labour costs. That is included in my price to supply and install with GST being extra on the whole amount.

When this starts I will delete the 8% factor and it will be 13% at the end.

The housing guys will do the same because they have to compete and if the 8% doesn't exist anymore, they won't put it in.

I was hoping that the under 400 figure would be without the 13% and we would actually be saving 8.

I shoulda known better.

6% sounds ok because I figure construction costs will go up bu about 3 or 4 % because field labour is about 1/3 of the cost..a bit more for housing I think.

I plan on building in the spring and was wondering if i should wait to save money but it looks like not.

 

And I gotta sell early to save the extra 8 on realtor commish