Question of ethics or stupidity? (NF)

[DRIFTER_016]

It would not bother me either. But I would have tarped the carcass. 10% of us hunt, 10% are actively opposed to it and 80% of the population sits in the middle and don't care one way or the other.

 

Unless you live where I do then it's 80% Hunt, 10% don't but eat it and 10% don't and don't care.

Up here you butcher your moose and caribou on the kitchen floor.

[skeeter]

Yup!... they're such violent blood thirsty critters yanno!!!

 

Hunt a wild hog with a sheath knife... now there's a sport you can brag about!!!

 

 

 

LOL-----now iam starting to figure out how you got that black & white hat gcd------

[cisco]

Most society's hunted for subsistance..

These Trailer Park Heroes have a bit to learn about respect for the animals they were fortunate to harvest.

The guys care more about the rack than the meat.

Even Neanderthal man would have shown more Class.

 

Neanderthal man wore the antlers on top of his dang head Danbo!

 

Anyone who sees such bad stuff who will get a bad feeling over it is already going down the anti-hunting highway. Perhaps by putting such stuff in plain view it opens up discussion about hunting/moose/conservation when folks talk to others about their horific experience seeing a dead critter on a hood.

 

FYI I wrote the Ethics chapter in MNR's moose management book some years ago and did advise hunters to be discrete and tarp their kills. In hindsight, I doubt schools and parents explain stuff properly to kids about wildlife management..... so maybe a dead moose will trigger some actual research and... God forbid... education on the matter to those with impressionable minds. Ontarians should be taught about our outdoor heritage. Not much of this going on at all I'm afraid... except for the odd bloody moose going down the highway.

Edited October 9, 2008 by cisco

[Greencoachdog]

That is why nobody pastures bulls anymore.

 

Maybe they don't pasture them where you live, but don't go tippy toeing around unfamiliar pastures down here!!!

[Gerritt]

Do not get me wrong fellas I am Pro-Hunter, and I believe taking a moose is far better then the commercial drug induced beef we pass down our gullets daily...

 

But some good points have been raised.. It would spark discussion, but would that discussion be positive in nature?

 

Education.. all living things die, many at the hands of man. but does that make it right to have a moose head strapped to your ATV with its tongue waving in the wind as you drive 130km per hour down the Hwy?

 

Perhaps I used the wrong term in the title of this thread.. instead of ethics I should have used "In Good Taste"

 

 

Dawg, what does my boat have to do with this thread? I am confused (Does not take much I know)

 

G

[lew]

Although I come from a long line of hunters, I was never one myself.

 

I used to go on the hunts for many years and still always enjoy time in the bush but could just never find it in myself to kill an animal just for sport, specialy something as majestic as a deer or moose. I don't even keep a fish unless is gonna die anyways but that's just me and I'd never try and push my views on the subject on anyone.

 

I'm not in any way opposed to hunting, it's just not my thing.

 

Most of us eat meat and I would assume most people hope that the animals that are raised for food are killed fast and humanely.

 

I think the thing is though, it doesn't take too much for folks to realise that when someone is shooting at an animal running thru the bush, whether with a gun or a bow, a clean fast kill is often impossible and the animal is often horribly maimed by the shooter and suffers a terrible, slow, painful death.

 

I once saw a deer that was hit about 6 times before it finally died. It had part of it's jaw shot off, it's inards were hanging out and it was crawling on 3 legs because a front leg had been blown apart at the knee.

 

That's the image that many folks have of hunters and hunting and I think if you cart an animal home on the roof of your car or over the fender of your truck for all to see, your just adding to the anti's agenda and giving them more fuel for their fires.

 

It's often mentioned on this board that were all sposed to be sportsmen and show respect for the critters we chase, whether in the bush or under the water, but I think stuff like that is lost when dead animals are held high for the world to see, specially when guys are driving around town for a couple days to be sure everyone see's what he killed.

 

Personally, I think hunters would do themselves a favour by covering up their kills rather than showing them off for the whole world to see........ What folks don't see can't offend them.

 

If your driving down the hiway or thru town with a dead and bloody animal draped over the hood of your car with his eyes wide open and tongue hanging out, your just looking for trouble as far as I'm concerned.

 

As I said, I'm not a hunter but also not oppossed to it personally, but many people are and a bit of discression goes a long ways......throw a cover over it.

 

Just my opinion.

Edited October 9, 2008 by lew

[anders]

i am a hunter, but i dont like brining up the sibject due to its volatile nature (with many people opposed to killing), and this is a good example of why is dont like discussing. The action in question can be viewed by many different stances. First off, it is the law to take home the antlers or head of the animal for proper sexing if stopped by the CO after the hunt be it in your garage or on the road. Second, have you lifted a moose head, if not they are heavy and akward, maybe after the harvest when transporting out of the bush it wa easier for the crew just to leave it on the 4 wheeler?

 

However it doesnt look good and it can give hunters a bad name. By no means do i think that these people are bragging,(if you want bragging go to Dubreiville Ontario...there you will see bragging that would make you cringe), however, it is a common sight in the fall for hunters to get there kill home, buy putting it either whole or in quarters with the hide on in the trailer or back of the truck with feet in the air. How else do they get it home? But it can look like disrespect to that animal when in fact I believe that in 90% of the cases it is just trying to get home quickly.

 

Like it was said before...education is important and we (hunters) have to be patient when talking to the anti's about it.

[holdfast]

Then cover it and as soon as you get home get rid of it, Don't tell me that nobody shows off their trophy. Funny though, out here where there is a lot of Deer and Moose, Ive never seen a Moose Head proped upright on a vehicle. Must be a city( avoiding province or language) thing because when living in Montreal, seen it every season.

[JohnF]

Most of us eat meat and I would assume most people hope that the animals that are raised for food are killed fast and humanely.

 

<snip>

 

Personally, I think hunters would do themselves a favour by covering up their kills rather than showing them off for the whole world to see........ What folks don't see can't offend them.

 

If your driving down the hiway or thru town with a dead and bloody animal draped over the hood of your car with his eyes wide open and tongue hanging out, your just looking for trouble as far as I'm concerned.

 

As I said, I'm not a hunter but also not oppossed to it personally, but many people are and a bit of discression goes a long ways......throw a cover over it.

 

Just my opinion.

 

I'm with you Lew. Years ago I worked two summers in a meatpacking plant/slaughterhouse. We all learned to tune out the blood and gore eventually, but there was a reason why plant tours were discouraged on kill days.

 

Even watching a fish die can be fairly traumatic for some folks. I saw it happen this summer on Lake Manitou. My cousins were on the boat with us and the lady became quite upset about us killing some lake trout (pulled up fast from 100') and refused to have anything to do with eating the meat later.

 

Hunting is fine. In fact, it's a good thing that at least some folks are keeping the meat gathering skills alive and well. Not that I think we'll ever have to go back totally to the old hunter/gatherer ways, but who knows for sure. I don't hunt land critters any more. I had my share of killing and blood by the time I'd finished school, but I still remember the killing/butchering skills I learned back in the day. I sincerely hope I never have to put them all to use, but I'm sure I still could if necessary.

 

Not everyone can deal with death as stoically as hunter types. Like the slaughterhouses, I think that hunters & fishermen should use some discretion in waving the bloody results of their killing in the faces of folks who might be offended, even frightened, by it. Hypocrisy has nothing to do with it. People today, at least in our civilized part of the world, aren't conditioned to deal with the realities of violent death, and it's not the place of those who are to train the rest whether they like it or not.

 

Think of it this way. When our members post hunting pics here they usually accompany them with warnings of the graphic nature of the pics for those who might be offended. Why should a hunter coming home from a successful hunt handle his bragging any differently? A modicum of common sense and compassion would suggest that a public street is the wrong venue for hunters exercising bragging rights.

 

JF

Edited October 9, 2008 by JohnF

[douG]

Hi, cisco, nice to see you are still around.

[blaque]

I'm with you Lew. Years ago I worked two summers in a meatpacking plant/slaughterhouse. We all learned to tune out the blood and gore eventually, but there was a reason why plant tours were discouraged on kill days.

 

Even watching a fish die can be fairly traumatic for some folks. I saw it happen this summer on Lake Manitou. My cousins were on the boat with us and the lady became quite upset about us killing some lake trout (pulled up fast from 100') and refused to have anything to do with eating the meat later.

 

Hunting is fine. In fact, it's a good thing that at least some folks are keeping the meat gathering skills alive and well. Not that I think we'll ever have to go back totally to the old hunter/gatherer ways, but who knows for sure. I don't hunt land critters any more. I had my share of killing and blood by the time I'd finished school, but I still remember the killing/butchering skills I learned back in the day. I sincerely hope I never have to put them all to use, but I'm sure I still could if necessary.

 

Not everyone can deal with death as stoically as hunter types. Like the slaughterhouses, I think that hunters & fishermen should use some discretion in waving the bloody results of their killing in the faces of folks who might be offended, even frightened, by it. Hypocrisy has nothing to do with it. People today, at least in our civilized part of the world, aren't conditioned to deal with the realities of violent death, and it's not the place of those who are to train the rest whether they like it or not.

 

Think of it this way. When our members post hunting pics here they usually accompany them with warnings of the graphic nature of the pics for those who might be offended. Why should a hunter coming home from a successful hunt handle his bragging any differently? A modicum of common sense and compassion would suggest that a public street is the wrong venue for hunters exercising bragging rights.

 

JF

 

Not much i can add here, Lew and Yourself have summed up my thoughts PERFECTLY.

 

I dont hunt, dont oppose it too much as long as the animal is respected. (not sure how much respect can be shown by filling it with lead, lol, but i do understand the theory behind the necessity of the hunt)

 

I prefer to go out and observe the animals, takin them down is just not for me. I never understood while watching a bear hunt for instance on sunday morning on the tube.........why they always sit there whispering, trying to get a good shot on film, and the whole while saying, look at her, isnt she just a beautiful creature.....look at her, so majestic and regal, just an amazing thing to witness......then BAM! Never understand it. Different strokes for differnet folks i guess.

[dannyboy]

It seems to be about exposure, nobody seems to be offended about the dead animals and animal parts on display in a supermarket.

Jeez, just think, the nerve of someone sending a grocery flyer containing pictures of dead animals to your house.

 

Bunnies don't wear vests with pocket watches, Mr Bear doesn't go on holiday with Mr Deer, and food does not come from a store.

 

It is a slippery slope to impose morals on others, if their actions are illegal that is one thing, but if hunters or fishermen are supposed to hide their actions it implies they are doing something offensive and wrong.

 

As people who enjoy fishing we should be careful about not distancing ourselves from hunters, whom do you think the activists would go after if they got hunting banned?

 

Dan

[ccmtcanada]

I'm indifferent one way or another about hunters displaying their kill.

 

Except....

 

I'd rather see a dead moose on display on the back of a vehicle than a live one

[wallyboss]

I'd rather see a dead moose on display on the back of a vehicle than a live one

 

Me too , cause a live one on the front of the vehicle could be harmful.

Edited October 9, 2008 by wallyboss

[irishfield]

Here's how to load your moose!

[anders]

Thats an all to familiar seen up here.

 

gotta love that splatter on the camper.

[LeXXington]

I am just waiting to pass a deer or moose strapped to the hood of a car and as I pass by we make eye contact and it winks at me

 

to everyone their own.. great thing about Canada

[Marko]

Here's how to load your moose!

 

Look how straight that road is where he hit the moose. He couldnt see it comming and maybe slow down?

His pick up looks a little totaled.

[highdrifter]

i wish they'd tarp and deodorize the trucks carrying the pigs to slaughter.

 

*tongue firmly in cheek*

 

Saw a rig hauling hundreds of chickens the other day... Cages pilled high and in full view.. You shoulda see the poor buggers at the bottom of the pile. Quite the interesting odor while driving on the 401.

 

Advertising succesful moose hunts is one thing.. this, made me think twice about eating KFC.

 

HD

[JohnF]

It seems to be about exposure, nobody seems to be offended about the dead animals and animal parts on display in a supermarket.

Jeez, just think, the nerve of someone sending a grocery flyer containing pictures of dead animals to your house.

 

I happened to be nearby in the packing plant when a tour group were accidentally brought face to face(?) with a bunch of slaughtered sheep (the carcasses when bled out and hung look like skinned greyhounds). Rest assured the reaction was slightly different than what you see at the meat counter in the deli. For some reason folks don't relate processed or butchered meat to the stuff on the hoof, or what was very recently on the hoof.

 

It is a slippery slope to impose morals on others, if their actions are illegal that is one thing, but if hunters or fishermen are supposed to hide their actions it implies they are doing something offensive and wrong.

 

Methinks there's a difference between being discrete in exercising your rights and gloating about them when you do. We all knew at some point in our young lives what Mom and Dad were doing in the privacy of their own room, but if Dad started cavorting around the house waving a used condom that he and Mom had shared we'd be grossed out, wouldn't we?

 

As people who enjoy fishing we should be careful about not distancing ourselves from hunters, whom do you think the activists would go after if they got hunting banned?

 

Very good point and an even better reason for discretion. Fly under the radar. Limit the bragging to folks who'll be impressed, and spare those who might be offended. They're the ones who'll do the most harm later on. I've said this to my friends in the States who feel they need to carry guns. Why flaunt the gun, or the right, in the faces of those who'll try to have it taken away. "Because I can." just isn't a very sensible answer. Of course I get a lot of heat from some of them when I say it, so my apologies if I've offended anyone here.

 

JF

[Raf]

sweeping things under the rug or putting in 'under the radar' just moves thigns further and further fom the mainstream and into the fringe. what are we protecting people from anyway?

 

i agree 100% with cisco's post.

[ecmilley]

doesn't bother me, don't really see the difference harvesting a deer or moose to harvesting a walleye, trout or picking some apples, may look gross to some but maybe people should get more involved in where there food comes from.

And if I were to worry about offending people the first thing I would have to do is tape my mouth shut and get rid of my internet connection, doesn't matter someone will get offended about something

[Guest gbfisher]

Neanderthal man wore the antlers on top of his dang head Danbo!

 

Anyone who sees such bad stuff who will get a bad feeling over it is already going down the anti-hunting highway. Perhaps by putting such stuff in plain view it opens up discussion about hunting/moose/conservation when folks talk to others about their horific experience seeing a dead critter on a hood.

 

FYI I wrote the Ethics chapter in MNR's moose management book some years ago and did advise hunters to be discrete and tarp their kills. In hindsight, I doubt schools and parents explain stuff properly to kids about wildlife management..... so maybe a dead moose will trigger some actual research and... God forbid... education on the matter to those with impressionable minds. Ontarians should be taught about our outdoor heritage. Not much of this going on at all I'm afraid... except for the odd bloody moose going down the highway.

 

Couldn't agree more.

I grew up not understanding hunting. I only started at an age where shooting/collecting became a hobby. Hunting was something.... I THOUGHT...that I would ever do.

My first hunting trip was with a few native friends of mine. I saw right then and there what it was all about. Little kids all involved as I should have been growing up.

More kids should be involved. At least this way they can understand and have a say about hunting....and ethics regarding hunting.......To each their own regardless.

The ones who have nothing to do with it should have nothing to say about it. PERIOD!!

I know now...that I was uninformed and .....lol....sadly misguided growing up.....

Edited October 9, 2008 by gbfisher

[dannyboy]

Thanks for the response John;

Good taste and discretion will always be in style and yet I believe that, like germs and viruses, exposure is important to build resistance.

If society becomes sterile to the idea of hunting and fishing we will lose our privileges (not rights) to hunt and fish.

 

No I don't believe it is in good taste to have dead animals exposed and "because I can" is not a good reason. Yet while I may not approve of someone's actions I need to defend their rights if their actions are legal.

 

Martin Niemöller summed it up in his "First they came..."

 

Dan

[JohnF]

Thanks for the response John;

Good taste and discretion will always be in style and yet I believe that, like germs and viruses, exposure is important to build resistance.

If society becomes sterile to the idea of hunting and fishing we will lose our privileges (not rights) to hunt and fish.

 

No I don't believe it is in good taste to have dead animals exposed and "because I can" is not a good reason. Yet while I may not approve of someone's actions I need to defend their rights if their actions are legal.

 

Martin Niemöller summed it up in his "First they came..."

 

Dan

 

Well, there's nothing illegal about farting in a crowded elevator, but so far no one has come to my defence.

 

JF