MP Of Kawarthas "Save the walleye"

[Tjames09]

https://jamieschmale.ca/walleye/

 

General info:

https://jamieschmale.ca/walleye/updates/

 

Saw this on another board. Just sharing it. I like that the MP cares about the area he belongs to. I personally feel the walleye fishery in the area suffers, but thats not based on any hard facts just anecdotal.

[GBW]

zone 17 is so close to the "city" so yeah it get's fished hard. So do other zones but FMZ17 is rather close to most in the GTA and less travel time vs going up the 400. Also the Trent water mgt is key to making sure the walleye egg's are not left on dry land as they open up and move water from lake to lake. This is part of the problem and why Scugog is closed for walleye. Over fishing and not managing water levels properly. Maybe it's time to start talking stocking or review the slot in place? I do not know. However I do know that most of the walleye I caught last year and so far this year are over the slot. Last year I'd say 70% were out of the slot and most over the 50cm mark. I back this James person's ideas to from the brief read on the links.

[porkpie]

We caught boat loads of unders on our annual kawartha trip this spring. Plenty of overs as well and still able to keep enough eaters for a real good fry. I was happy with what I saw on the lake I fish. It looked good for future opportunities. Can't speak for the rest of the K lakes other than Rice, where we have done pretty decently in the recent past. But for sure they get pounded being so close to the GTA.

[chris.brock]

 

His heart's in the right place but I think his logic is a little off.

 

Funny, he's talking about not enough water, meanwhile this spring it's time to build an ark. Looks like someone is using yellow perch for bait too, lol.

[Sinker]

I find most of the kawartha lakes are on the rebound right now. Tons of walleye, and all different year classes. It will happen on scugog in time too. I think the slot is perfect myself. Its not fishermen, or slots that ruin a whole year class, its water levels. I really don't think the tourney does a lot of damage, but a lot of it depends on conditions. If its too hot, its bad, bad, bad. I've been catching lots of over slot fish for a few seasons now, loads and loads of unders, and more than enough keepers to have a meal any time I want. I've caught some of the biggest walleye ive ever caught from the kawartha's the last couple years. These lakes are constantly changing, and the fish are constantly adapting. Stocking them is not the way to go at all. If stocking ever did happen, the natural reproducing fish would be forgotten about. A healthy system has natural reproduction, and the kawarthas are healthy, productive lakes.

 

S.

[AKRISONER]

god i wish they would friggin introduce the kawarthas slot into georgian bay.

 

Its that kind of inconstancy that makes me question what the hell the fisheries guys are doing. How can you literally have two totally different sets of logic for the exact same species in place within 200km of each other...

 

I personally dont see how allowing people to harvest the biggest fish is good for any fishery. You are literally destroying the gene pool. I shudder at the thought of people throwing 2 lb 16 inch pickerels back while keeping a 9lber. Bloody ridiculous.

[Sinker]

god i wish they would friggin introduce the kawarthas slot into georgian bay.

 

Its that kind of inconstancy that makes me question what the hell the fisheries guys are doing. How can you literally have two totally different sets of logic for the exact same species in place within 200km of each other...

 

I personally dont see how allowing people to harvest the biggest fish is good for any fishery. You are literally destroying the gene pool. I shudder at the thought of people throwing 2 lb 16 inch pickerels back while keeping a 9lber. Bloody ridiculous.

Keeping the bigger ones allows the smaller year classes of fish to grow up. Once there is a good population of them, they will change the slot size.

 

Different watershed, different ecosystem.....different slots. IT doesnt matter that they are the same species.

 

S.

[captpierre]

I guess since they still have the slots reversed in Balsam compared to the other Kawarthas, they still don't know which way is best?

[Sinker]

I guess since they still have the slots reversed in Balsam compared to the other Kawarthas, they still don't know which way is best?

Basically, yes. The slot was put on balsam before the rest of the kawartha's.

 

S.

[AKRISONER]

so there you go, which one is better? I am convinced the fisheries guys have no clue at all.

 

I am personally of the opinion that keeping big fish is the wrong way about things. The most important fish are the fish that are spawning...if they continue to spawn and are protected, there should be a concern about the fact that some of smaller ones are being taken. They represent the biggest portion of fish at that point. Pickerel live a long time and it doesnt take long for them to start going over slot...once they are there why stop them from growing to their full potential?

[Musky Plug]

Is walleye still closed on Scugog? I've read threads on other forums that people have been fishing for them...

[chris.brock]

I guess since they still have the slots reversed in Balsam compared to the other Kawarthas

Yes. From what I understand, the slots are different because they think Balsam is different compared to the lakes down stream and in the rest of the Kawarthas.

 

I dunno, that's what they say.

[GBW]

Is walleye still closed on Scugog? I've read threads on other forums that people have been fishing for them...

100% closed!

[GBW]

When it comes to catch and keep for a meal I have an idea that might work and I'm going to get bashed for it or get 'great idea' type or replies. With a S-lic you get to keep 1x over 50cm and the others must be in the 35-50cm. with a C-lic no over/under. That could bring a better balance as Sinker was saying, let's the smaller ones grow up as the big old predator is removed. Just a thought for all FMZ17 to do on the open lakes (yes Scugog is closed till further notice).

[esoxansteel]

I find most of the kawartha lakes are on the rebound right now. Tons of walleye, and all different year classes. It will happen on scugog in time too. I think the slot is perfect myself. Its not fishermen, or slots that ruin a whole year class, its water levels. I really don't think the tourney does a lot of damage, but a lot of it depends on conditions. If its too hot, its bad, bad, bad. I've been catching lots of over slot fish for a few seasons now, loads and loads of unders, and more than enough keepers to have a meal any time I want. I've caught some of the biggest walleye ive ever caught from the kawartha's the last couple years. These lakes are constantly changing, and the fish are constantly adapting. Stocking them is not the way to go at all. If stocking ever did happen, the natural reproducing fish would be forgotten about. A healthy system has natural reproduction, and the kawarthas are healthy, productive lakes.

 

 

 

 

Theres the honest answer folks and truth from start to finish

[ch312]

god i wish they would friggin introduce the kawarthas slot into georgian bay.

 

Its that kind of inconstancy that makes me question what the hell the fisheries guys are doing. How can you literally have two totally different sets of logic for the exact same species in place within 200km of each other...

 

I personally dont see how allowing people to harvest the biggest fish is good for any fishery. You are literally destroying the gene pool. I shudder at the thought of people throwing 2 lb 16 inch pickerels back while keeping a 9lber. Bloody ridiculous.

 

Depending on the water body, that 9lb fish could be well past it's prime and could no longer be a good spawner and removing said fish could actually benefit the population. I mean no disrespect, but how can you criticize fisheries biologists if you cannot understand the difference between harvesting great lakes fish compared to fish from small inland lakes?

[PUMP KNOWS]

I just started walleye fishing and I like how they have slot sizes. I would prefer to keep a 14-19inch walleye over the bigger ones.

[scuro2]

 

 

Theres the honest answer folks and truth from start to finish

 

It is nice to hear stories first hand that the walleye stock in all the lakes are doing GREAT! Call me old fashioned but I'd rather defer to the fisheries people who actually do science to give a comprehensive opinion. Out in NFL everyone was cursing the need for a fisheries ban on Cod until now 25 years later when the stock has come back.

Edited June 1, 2017 by scuro2

[Sinker]

 

It is nice to hear stories first hand that the walleye stock in all the lakes are doing GREAT! Call me old fashioned but I'd rather defer to the fisheries people who actually do science to give a comprehensive opinion. Out in NFL everyone was cursing the need for a fisheries ban on Cod until now 25 years later when the stock has come back.

I can relate on both of your points. I was raised in NFLD, and my family were commercial fisherman. The FISHERMEN Know more about the actual fishery than your "scientists". Fishermen were crying for better regulations LOOOOONG before the fishery was closed. I don't know one single fisherman who was cursing a closure. I was there. I lived it. I am in ontario now because of it. Do you really think a degree in fisheries is more valuable than people who have spent a whole lifetime on the water?? I don't. My family had 4 generations of fishermen on the water before it was closed. All the science in the world has no value over experience. ( and don't say we raped the fishery, because the inshore fishing families never hurt a thing. The real reasons are a whole different post.) We caught enough to survive.

 

Same thing on the kawartha's. I've been fishing them for 30 years. I've seen the changes, and how they have progressed through the chain lake to lake. The fisheries people who make the decisions make them too late. The people on the water the most know more about whats actually happening out there than some guy in his office who pulls a net a few times a year. Even the guys in the field know more than the decision makers about the actual fishery. I could have told you 15 years ago, at least, that scugog needed tighter regs on the walleyes.

 

Don't get me wrong, I see the value in science etc, and on paper and am one, but you can't put it up against the people who are out there 2-3-4 times a week over 30 years, or families of fishermen who have spent lifetimes on the water fishing. When do we get to have our say with the fisheries? There needs to be more in put from people who are on the water, and have years of experience. It would make a big difference IMO.

 

Getting a decision made in this country is a big problem. Most times, its too little, too late, and the wrong decision is made.

 

S.

[jimmer]

My personal contribution to helping the walleye population happened quite a few years ago when I started eating panfish. I might keep one or two walleye a year for a change, but the panfish more than satisfy my taste for fish.

I also believe that the guys that fish these lakes on a regular basis know more about the fish populations than anyone else; however, all will also have different opinions.

[AKRISONER]

 

Depending on the water body, that 9lb fish could be well past it's prime and could no longer be a good spawner and removing said fish could actually benefit the population. I mean no disrespect, but how can you criticize fisheries biologists if you cannot understand the difference between harvesting great lakes fish compared to fish from small inland lakes?

id love to believe that these big class walleye are past their prime and thats why...but catch one of them and you instantly realize, not a chance. I see the 30 inch eyes that come out of the inland lakes and the fish look old ugly and haggard.

 

the two biggest eyes we caught on Gbay were 8 and 9lbs respectively...both were not over 27 inches long and both were absolutely spotless. They looked as healthy as any of the hundreds of small fish we caught. I find it very very difficult to believe that these perfect specimens of walleye are in worse spawning shape than the big haggard monsters that folks are pulling out of the kawarthas.

 

you be the judge...this fish doesnt even have a nick on its fins

 

 

Im convinced that there are plenty of 10lb+ eyes in lake huron/georgian bay and if such is the case, no one is going to convince me that a .5lb 16 inch fish is already starting to get into the prime of its life and will be done and washed up once it grows another 4 inches and gains another 1.5lbs

Edited June 1, 2017 by AKRISONER

[manitoubass2]

On the rainy river I catch plenty of 8-10lb walleye still spewing eggs.

 

I can't comment on the science but I'd bet ever they spawn very well

 

But different water bodies could mean vastly different results.

 

And who the heck keeps a 9lb walleye lol. (Unless it's a once in a lifetime thing and going to be mounted)

 

I only keep walleye in the 13-18" range. If I can't find them it's panfish or pike for dinner/shorelunch

[captpierre]

I can relate on both of your points. I was raised in NFLD, and my family were commercial fisherman. The FISHERMEN Know more about the actual fishery than your "scientists". Fishermen were crying for better regulations LOOOOONG before the fishery was closed. I don't know one single fisherman who was cursing a closure. I was there. I lived it. I am in ontario now because of it. Do you really think a degree in fisheries is more valuable than people who have spent a whole lifetime on the water?? I don't. My family had 4 generations of fishermen on the water before it was closed. All the science in the world has no value over experience. ( and don't say we raped the fishery, because the inshore fishing families never hurt a thing. The real reasons are a whole different post.) We caught enough to survive.

 

Same thing on the kawartha's. I've been fishing them for 30 years. I've seen the changes, and how they have progressed through the chain lake to lake. The fisheries people who make the decisions make them too late. The people on the water the most know more about whats actually happening out there than some guy in his office who pulls a net a few times a year. Even the guys in the field know more than the decision makers about the actual fishery. I could have told you 15 years ago, at least, that scugog needed tighter regs on the walleyes.

 

Don't get me wrong, I see the value in science etc, and on paper and am one, but you can't put it up against the people who are out there 2-3-4 times a week over 30 years, or families of fishermen who have spent lifetimes on the water fishing. When do we get to have our say with the fisheries? There needs to be more in put from people who are on the water, and have years of experience. It would make a big difference IMO.

 

Getting a decision made in this country is a big problem. Most times, its too little, too late, and the wrong decision is made.

 

S.

I guess that's why the MNR sends teams of students out to take surveys of fishermen and their catches. I've been approached on Simcoe and Lake O many times.

Never on Pigeon though.

[scuro2]

I can relate on both of your points. I was raised in NFLD, and my family were commercial fisherman. The FISHERMEN Know more about the actual fishery than your "scientists". Fishermen were crying for better regulations LOOOOONG before the fishery was closed. I don't know one single fisherman who was cursing a closure. I was there. I lived it. I am in ontario now because of it. Do you really think a degree in fisheries is more valuable than people who have spent a whole lifetime on the water?? I don't. My family had 4 generations of fishermen on the water before it was closed. All the science in the world has no value over experience. ( and don't say we raped the fishery, because the inshore fishing families never hurt a thing. The real reasons are a whole different post.) We caught enough to survive.

 

Same thing on the kawartha's. I've been fishing them for 30 years. I've seen the changes, and how they have progressed through the chain lake to lake. The fisheries people who make the decisions make them too late. The people on the water the most know more about whats actually happening out there than some guy in his office who pulls a net a few times a year. Even the guys in the field know more than the decision makers about the actual fishery. I could have told you 15 years ago, at least, that scugog needed tighter regs on the walleyes.

 

Don't get me wrong, I see the value in science etc, and on paper and am one, but you can't put it up against the people who are out there 2-3-4 times a week over 30 years, or families of fishermen who have spent lifetimes on the water fishing. When do we get to have our say with the fisheries? There needs to be more in put from people who are on the water, and have years of experience. It would make a big difference IMO.

 

Getting a decision made in this country is a big problem. Most times, its too little, too late, and the wrong decision is made.

 

S.

You experienced something I didn't. I was there at closure and there was a lot of anger that the Feds were taking away the fishery. None of the fishermen I saw and talked to were lamenting the "delay" in the ban.

So that's the problem with first hand observation, in that you can have two totally different accounts of the same thing and sometimes that isn't an innocent thing. Strictly going on the opinions of others to make huge decisions can lead to incredibly bad decision making such as the US pulling out of the Paris Accord today. There are a lot of opinionated people telling me that climate changes but are totally clueless about the science behind when a changing climate is more than just weather.

Edited June 1, 2017 by scuro2

[Garnet]

Balsam never needed a slot. It had fabulous amount of fish in every year class. The problem was they used trap nets that sat in 8 ft and went to shore missing 99% of the walleye.

 

The slot ruined Balsam because there's tons in the slot (non keepers) and few above or below.

 

I was fishing all the Kawrathas 40 years ago and you could catch tons of 16 inch walleye. Today fishing is better in that you never know what your next bite will be. In practice for Canada US I caught 2 over 5 a 6 and a 7.5. Rice was the same Tri lakes a little balanced fishing.

 

They need to get something wrote by Crossman or change will never happen. He is the guy that wrote the green book on species. You will hear direct Quotes from his book at every meeting with MNR.