What is it with young people today? NF

[DRIFTER_016]

It's because everyone gets a ribbon now and everyone is special. People don't discipline their children anymore, they encourage them to embrace who they are, regardless if they are monsters and jerks.

 

I knew 10 years ago when they started this it would lead to a generation of entitled idiots.

 

George Carlin put it best - If everyone is special. The word loses all meaning.

 

People don't discipline their children any more because they will get thrown in jail for spanking them.

You can thank the government for today's children.

They are the ones that make the laws.

[DRIFTER_016]

It's not all about the young people being in the wrong -- Who gave birth to them, raised them, and taught them what was right? There are a lot of idiots with kids who became idiots because being an idiot is all they've ever known.

 

Very true.

I always shake my head when I watch The First 48 and the 19 year old homie that got whacked was the father of three young kids!!

[netminder]

 

A lot of it though was peer pressure. I'm not saying its right but all of the sudden, 20 years ago Opera and Doctor Phil and some other expert comes on your TV and says 'We've been doing it wrong all these years. Do this and this and this' and 90% of parents said 'That's ridiculous.' But the other 10% had their soapbox and finally had a voice to be able to helicopter over their children and justification for bubble wrapping the world.

 

The problem is then that 10% goes to the schools and says to the teachers 'I've been doing it right all along. You need to change this and this and this.' 10% of people may not seem like a lot but when all of them are putting pressure on the school board, they start looking to make a change.

 

Change happens at school and kids come home saying 'Teachers say this and this and this,' The 90% of parents maybe becomes 80% or 70%. Then the kids coaches and other supervisors get on board, and the percentage becomes smaller and smaller.

 

Now we are at the point where this percentage of parents making the kids the ones in control have the majority. Kudos for those who have and still do stick to their guns. There are a lot of idiots out there that will try to convince you that you are wrong at every turn.

You almost had me fooled for a bit, talking like an old timer. But I suspected as much looking at your profile name and then checking your profile you're only a year older than I am. You are one of the "young people these days". So let me bring you back from the dark side ( because it's been difficult for some to detect here earlier)

 

Let me wade into this again and hopefully annoy as many people as possible...

 

But let me let everyone in on a secret: Privilege is progress. Sure, some things may be taking it too far, or there were some failed experiments. But seriously, privileged youth mean we've been making progress as a society. If we didn't, we would still have child labour, slavery, deplorable working conditions, no technology, teachers who beat the children and berate them daily, no one would have sick leave, maternity leave, employment insurance, healthcare, etc. etc., etc.

 

And just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean either side is right or wrong. Sometimes it's just a different way of doing things.

 

PS - I don't have any kids, but I seriously think there should be a licensing exam you have to pass to have kids. Your reproductive organs should be taken away and only returned to you once you pass the exam.

 

PPS - Does anyone here actually know who Socrates is? I feel like Old Ironmaker's quote went over a few people's heads

[Headhunter]

Wasn't Socrates in "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure"?

HH

[Acountdeleted]

You almost had me fooled for a bit, talking like an old timer. But I suspected as much looking at your profile name and then checking your profile you're only a year older than I am. You are one of the "young people these days". So let me bring you back from the dark side ( because it's been difficult for some to detect here earlier)

 

Let me wade into this again and hopefully annoy as many people as possible...

 

But let me let everyone in on a secret: Privilege is progress. Sure, some things may be taking it too far, or there were some failed experiments. But seriously, privileged youth mean we've been making progress as a society. If we didn't, we would still have child labour, slavery, deplorable working conditions, no technology, teachers who beat the children and berate them daily, no one would have sick leave, maternity leave, employment insurance, healthcare, etc. etc., etc.

 

And just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean either side is right or wrong. Sometimes it's just a different way of doing things.

 

PS - I don't have any kids, but I seriously think there should be a licensing exam you have to pass to have kids. Your reproductive organs should be taken away and only returned to you once you pass the exam.

 

PPS - Does anyone here actually know who Socrates is? I feel like Old Ironmaker's quote went over a few people's heads

 

I got the quote, its a pretty good one because I'm sure every generation believes it to be true.

 

Netminder, we probably are around the same age and I don't have children either.

 

I truly believe (I'm sure every generation says this as well) that we were the last generation raised right. I agree with you 1000%, we don't need to be beating our kids, giving them lashings in school, and we have come a long way in growing as a society (PS - what are sick days? Or vacation time for that matter? Corporations found a way around that with a little thing called the 364 day contract employee)

 

But I feel that we need to pull it back a little bit now to fine tune everything. My dad used to teach, and I would hear him and a lot of his buddies all the time saying that it was getting really horrible because they felt powerless. A buddy of his once had a student clock him right in the middle of the class, the student got counseling for a couple of weeks in between their classes to determine what triggered them and my dads buddy got two weeks away from the school (paid thank god) to remove what may be a 'difficult situation' for the students.

 

I'm not sure if I want to have kids for fear of other parents telling me I'm wrong for making my kids call adults 'Sir' or 'Ma'am' or 'Aunt' or 'Uncle' for people not related to us (I called all friends of the family 'Aunt' and 'Uncle' as a show of respect growing up). I fear that if I don't give my 7 year old a $500 Iphone, teachers and parents will say I am taking away their ability to be social. I worry that if I take it away from them or ground them that I am not allowing them to express themself and I may be stifling their creativity.

 

As I said, we have come a long way as a society for sure, now we just need to fine tune and bring it back a little bit. Maybe be a little more harsh and strict.

[Dara]

...back when I was a teenager, they were all long haired hippie drug smoking freaks listening to that loud rock music

 

so what is it that changed?

 

I made it through high school and a bit of college...both my kids have Uni degrees

 

we need a grumpy old men section

[Ronzo]

 

I got the quote, its a pretty good one because I'm sure every generation believes it to be true.

 

Netminder, we probably are around the same age and I don't have children either.

 

I truly believe (I'm sure every generation says this as well) that we were the last generation raised right. I agree with you 1000%, we don't need to be beating our kids, giving them lashings in school, and we have come a long way in growing as a society (PS - what are sick days? Or vacation time for that matter? Corporations found a way around that with a little thing called the 364 day contract employee)

 

But I feel that we need to pull it back a little bit now to fine tune everything. My dad used to teach, and I would hear him and a lot of his buddies all the time saying that it was getting really horrible because they felt powerless. A buddy of his once had a student clock him right in the middle of the class, the student got counseling for a couple of weeks in between their classes to determine what triggered them and my dads buddy got two weeks away from the school (paid thank god) to remove what may be a 'difficult situation' for the students.

 

I'm not sure if I want to have kids for fear of other parents telling me I'm wrong for making my kids call adults 'Sir' or 'Ma'am' or 'Aunt' or 'Uncle' for people not related to us (I called all friends of the family 'Aunt' and 'Uncle' as a show of respect growing up). I fear that if I don't give my 7 year old a $500 Iphone, teachers and parents will say I am taking away their ability to be social. I worry that if I take it away from them or ground them that I am not allowing them to express themself and I may be stifling their creativity.

 

As I said, we have come a long way as a society for sure, now we just need to fine tune and bring it back a little bit. Maybe be a little more harsh and strict.

 

I'm around the same age, I have two young kids, 1 and 3. The sense of satisfaction that comes from at least TRYING to raise them right far outweighs any sort of fear of other parents judging me. Then again, I'm also the kind of person who doesn't sweat that kind of stuff, because everyone can have and is entitled to their opinion, even those who are completely out to lunch.

 

As far as being "raised right", honestly, that's pretty much a household-to-household deal, even back then. I have friends who didn't really have a chance, because their parents f'd things up so badly. I also know some people who did really well in life because their parents cared and tried to instill solid values.

 

I don't raise my kids in the exact same way I was raised, but the fundamentals are the same - show respect, understand that actions have consequences, try to be nice, and stick up for yourself when you need to. My wife spends time with the kids at the Early Year centres around here. More than once she's asked me "Are we too strict? I see kids running around, climbing on things, and they don't listen, while <daughter> knows better, and always listens". My response is always "And those kids are going to pay for the lack of direction from their parents when they get older".

 

I dunno, I think parents have as much influence as peer pressure. I remember being pressured into a lot of stuff, but just knowing better, and also not wanting to disappoint Mom and Dad. I did some really stupid stuff, but I don't think anyone makes it through youth without a few of those

 

I'm sure people look at me as a parent and think I'm out to lunch. At the end of the day, I love my kids a lot, I care about them a lot, and try to always put them ahead of myself. That's at least a start...

[SirCranksalot]

There are a lot of idiots with kids who became idiots because being an idiot is all they've ever known.

 

Now, ain't that the truth!

[netminder]

As for the overly coddled children, go to any university dorm or apartment, or witness any of their parties. The ones who don't know how to control themselves are the coddled ones. From my experience, they learn really fast or end up staying at home until they're 35. The rest of us go on to be successful, well adjusted individuals (such as myself).

[NANUK]

The average age of a trades person in HVAC trade is around 50,

union wages for a licensed HVAC mechanic is over $46 an hour + benefits, non Union can't be that far behind, why aren't more youngsters taking this trade ?

Besides some auto shops, most shops like machine shop, sheet metal, carpenter, plumbing, electrical have been closed in Toronto schools due to lack of enrolement.

Kids just don't want to get their hands dirty these days.

[Dara]

Trades are alive and well...but who can afford 46 bucks for a tin banger

[Acountdeleted]

Universities tell all of us we can be actors and pro athletes and history majors. Then they happily take our money and kick us out the door.

 

Actually, to be perfectly honest, it starts earlier then that. When I was in High School I thought I wanted to be an English teacher. This is only because I had no idea what other jobs were out there. So I went to college for a year and hated it. Then my dad and I did some research on jobs and career paths and I found something I really liked. Forget High School teaching Law and pythagrium Therum and a hundred other things I'll never use, there should have been a mandatory course called 'What the heck are you doing with your life after you graduate?'

[NANUK]

"If you think a qualified trades person is too expensive, try a non qualified one "

[leaf4]

Trades are alive and well...but who can afford 46 bucks for a tin banger

Non Union not a lot of people, I'm looking at probably starting wage when I get licensed at $32, plus a work truck to take home.

 

Union wage for a licensed sheet metal worker is $37/hr plus all the benefits pension etc ends up at around $55/hr. Sure would be nice!

 

Along with that goes the potential for lots of time off work also, Union jobs are usually "we need 500 guys for this job" and as soon as its done 450 of them are laid off

Edited April 27, 2016 by Lucas F

[manitoubass2]

This thread makes me very happy I live in NW ontario.

[Steve]

told ya man!!!

 

... and my cousin is a licensed tin banger.

 

he makes 28 bucks an hour.

 

maybe folks just get paid less here in Hamilton.

 

Only tradesman I've ever made who made more than 40 an hour was a specialty millwright / journeyman.

[LeXXington]

Some kids today just think they are above working hard. They will figure it out in time when mom and dad eventually run out of money.

 

There is a difference between public sector union and private company union.

 

Public sector there is always more money available regardless what you ask for.

Private unions over does it and the company folds or moves. Balanced happy workers are productive workers.

[DanD]

My 2 kids started working with me here at the garage, as soon as they were old enough to sweep the floor and clean the benches. No allowance or pay; they were working for the better of the family. When they wanted some money to buy something or go out with a friend; they came to us; if we thought it was reasonable they would get it. They did that until they left for university.

When they were home for the summer, they'd get jobs doing whatever there was out there. We made sure that at least 3/4 of their pay went into the bank and towards their next year of school.

My daughter is now a lawyer working at a well established firm here in town. My son is an automotive engineer, working for GM in the States; at there resource and development division.

We are very proud of both of them; but I don't believe they would have turned out the way they did; if it wasn't for my wife's and my firm but fair hand.

 

OK I'm done bragging; but what I think is wrong with a lot of young people; it's their parents not guiding them in the right direction.

 

Dan.

Edited April 28, 2016 by DanD

[leaf4]

told ya man!!!

 

... and my cousin is a licensed tin banger.

 

he makes 28 bucks an hour.

 

maybe folks just get paid less here in Hamilton.

 

Only tradesman I've ever made who made more than 40 an hour was a specialty millwright / journeyman.

If your cousin is only making 28 as a licensed sheet metal worker that's his fault, I make almost that much as a 5th year apprentice. The last company I worked for paid their sheet metal mechanic (licensed guy) $39/hr and we got profit sharing at that place and his yearly bonus was generally 15k gross. Not many companies do that though, but most do give a nice yearly bonus based on productivity and how you made out on the jobs you ran margin wise

[Canuck2fan]

Some kids today just think they are above working hard. They will figure it out in time when mom and dad eventually run out of money.

 

There is a difference between public sector union and private company union.

 

Public sector there is always more money available regardless what you ask for.

Private unions over does it and the company folds or moves. Balanced happy workers are productive workers.

 

Ironically a CEO can make 100 to 200 times what they used to in the 70's and the company's board does NOTHING about that.... if it wasn't so sad it would be funny.

[LeXXington]

 

Ironically a CEO can make 100 to 200 times what they used to in the 70's and the company's board does NOTHING about that.... if it wasn't so sad it would be funny.

 

That also drive me nuts, a CEO can come in drive the company to the ground and walk away a billionaire. Board of directors should be forced to include some employee's..

[Mister G]

Stop being JEALOUS of others........you want CEO money, then go to school and get a BA then a Masters or even better a PHD and become a CEO if you want that kind of money.

 

YOU are where you are because of what YOU did or did not do.....Don't blame others for your failures.

[kenzy31]

Not all trades are created equal regarding demand and the strength of the trades has been diminished by the reduction of the demand. Less manufacturing province wide has had a definite effect on the number of skilled tradesman required. Simple supply and demand. This has had a ripple effect beginning at company levels and all the way down to residential. With so many available electricians and plumbers, there is an increase in cash deals for home services. With interest rates so low and more people buying homes than ever, why are so many of the 2-10 people service businesses going out of business?

 

I was asked to speak to the apprenticeship classes at Mohawk College a few years ago about the value of trades and trades as a career option. I asked, "Would you like me to tell the truth?" I got a puzzled look in return so I continued. "Would you like me to explain how in the machining and die making industry, the majority of the jobs have been relocated offshore? That in many cases only prototype work, work that is expensive to ship, time sensitive or higher complexity is the work North Americans can compete at?" This hurts job prospects for new machinists. I had just finished "right sizing" a business from 96 employees to 17. Tell me again why I should go into that trade?

I've been feeling this change for the last 6-8 years as a CNC Machinist. Good paying, long lasting, secure jobs are getting too rare around here in Simcoe County. I got in with a large, forward thinking welding/fab/machine shop here in Barrie about a year ago and things are ok for the time being, but still fairly low on the wage scale at low-mid 20's. I bought my house at 25 when my first daughter was born in 2007, and back then was making $27+/ hour working 3.5 days per week. Now I work more, make less and have 3 kids! lol

But this "kid" (of 34 lol), has been full time employed since finishing CNC course in 2001. I started at $13/hr and just kept trying to improve my skills. If I could go back to 2000 and look at options again, I would've seriously considered military or electrician. Put in my 20 years and out or work for myself on my terms. But my family depends on me like I do them, so for the next 5 years we carry on. When all 3 girls are in school it's my wife's turn to go back to school and then we re-evaluate. Maybe move back home (for me) to New Brunswick, find relaxing menial jobs and live the good life! lol

Always remember that not all kids are created equal, and certainly neither are the parents!! lol

We do our best to show our girls by example, hopefully it sticks.

[Big Cliff]

Wow, I should have titled this thread "what's wrong with us old guys?"

 

For the most part all I have heard is how hard the young guys have it and how us old guys think our life was hard!

 

Guess this is a perfect example of the "generation gap". Us old guys expected to earn it, the young guys expect to get it!

[misfish]

I've been feeling this change for the last 6-8 years as a CNC Machinist. Good paying, long lasting, secure jobs are getting too rare around here in Simcoe County. I got in with a large, forward thinking welding/fab/machine shop here in Barrie about a year ago and things are ok for the time being, but still fairly low on the wage scale at low-mid 20's. I bought my house at 25 when my first daughter was born in 2007, and back then was making $27+/ hour working 3.5 days per week. Now I work more, make less and have 3 kids! lol

But this "kid" (of 34 lol), has been full time employed since finishing CNC course in 2001. I started at $13/hr and just kept trying to improve my skills. If I could go back to 2000 and look at options again, I would've seriously considered military or electrician. Put in my 20 years and out or work for myself on my terms. But my family depends on me like I do them, so for the next 5 years we carry on. When all 3 girls are in school it's my wife's turn to go back to school and then we re-evaluate. Maybe move back home (for me) to New Brunswick, find relaxing menial jobs and live the good life! lol

Always remember that not all kids are created equal, and certainly neither are the parents!! lol

We do our best to show our girls by example, hopefully it sticks.

 

 

The big buck plants are not here in Barrie, and I can relate to the above comment. Second guessing now is too late. Just nose down and go. Atleast we are working Kenzy and not dealing with that sout bound crap in the morning and those longweekend friday drives home. Barrie is not a manufacture city. BTW, we are looking for tool room guys. Getting busy busy.