defending your property in ontario...

[Whopper]

Thanks Porkpie and MrSimon

[JoePa]

Meanwhile all is quiet on the southern front -

[Headhunter]

Yah, liberty and freedom for everyone, except the 30,000 each year who are killed by guns.

I personally wouldn't feel very free if I had to carry a gun everywhere in order to feel "free".

HH

Edit for typo...

Edited September 29, 2015 by Headhunter

[spincast]

 

That is an incredibly insightful post.

 

 

I wish more people understood this.

 

More and more, America is becoming split down the middle ... morally, politically, culturally, behaviorally ...... and interestingly, the boundary of that split is often urban vs. rural.

 

Lastly, it's also interesting that the large majority of American gun-toting, flag-waving, ammo-hoarding, second amendment cowboys (and yes, they certainly do exist, in large numbers) live in areas with low gun-related crime rates.

 

 

really? Curious where that stat came from?

This one has some interesting numbers based on the urban rural comparison... http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-per-100000/

"Age-adjusted rates per 100,000 U.S. standard population. Rates for the United States and each state are based on populations enumerated in the 2010 census as of July 1, 2013. Rates for Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and Northern Marianas are based on the 2010 census, estimated as of July 1, 2013. Since death rates are affected by the population composition of a given area, age-adjusted death rates should be used for comparisons between areas because they control for differences in population composition.

U.S. Total does not include Puerto Rico, Guam, Northern Marianas, American Samoa, and the Virgin Islands.

Causes of death attributable to firearm mortality include ICD-10 Codes W32-W34, Accidental discharge of firearm; Codes X72-X74, Intentional self-harm by firearm; X93-X95, Assault by firearm; Y22-Y24, Firearm discharge, undetermined intent; and Y35, Legal intervention involving firearm discharge. Deaths from injury by firearms exclude deaths due to explosives and other causes indirectly related to firearms.

Sources

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), National Center for Health Statistics, Division of Vital Statistics, National Vital Statistics Report Volume 64, Number 2, Table 19, February 5, 2015."

This link is kind of interesting in that it compare US death rates by gun, per capita, against the rest of the world.

http://www.humanosphere.org/science/2014/03/visualizing-gun-deaths-comparing-the-u-s-to-rest-of-the-world/

[SirCranksalot]

From Spincast's post:

 

"The US has higher rates of homicides from guns than Pakistan. At 4.5 deaths per 100,000 people, the US rates aren’t much lower than gun homicide rates in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (5.2 deaths per 100,000 people). Annually, the US has about two fewer gun homicide deaths per 100,000 people than Iraq, which has 6.5 deaths per 100,000."

 

.

[JoePa]

Yes - there is a lot of violence in the U.S. but let me tell you something - most of the shootings goes on in the big cities where gang bangers are fighting over turf and shooting each other - if you didn't count those shootings the statistics would be a lot different - you got to remember that we have a lot of different cultures here and some are prone to crime more so than others -

 

Why is this so - because of the breakup of the family and the resulting poverty that occurs - over 70 percent of black children are born to single mothers - the kids grow up without proper guidance and end up in trouble - will it ever change - I don't know but in the mean time you have to realize that crime does exist and you need to take precautionary measures -

 

When I was growing up we didn't lock our house doors, you could let your keys in the ignition of your car parked along the street - never even heard of dope - you could go anywhere and feel safe - people generally worked hard and were honest and moral citizens - today it is just the opposite -

[kickingfrog]

Yes - there is a lot of violence in the U.S. but let me tell you something - most of the shootings goes on in the big cities where gang bangers are fighting over turf and shooting each other - if you didn't count those shootings the statistics would be a lot different - you got to remember that we have a lot of different cultures here and some are prone to crime more so than others -

 

Why is this so - because of the breakup of the family and the resulting poverty that occurs - over 70 percent of black children are born to single mothers - the kids grow up without proper guidance and end up in trouble - will it ever change - I don't know but in the mean time you have to realize that crime does exist and you need to take precautionary measures -

 

When I was growing up we didn't lock our house doors, you could let your keys in the ignition of your car parked along the street - never even heard of dope - you could go anywhere and feel safe - people generally worked hard and were honest and moral citizens - today it is just the opposite -

You're right some cultures are more prone. We however disagree on what that means.

[limeyangler]

Couldn't resist posting this. No matter which side of the fence you're on it's a pretty funny statement on guns and home security from Jim Jeffries, an Ausi comedian...

 

DANGER, contains coarse language:

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OZIOE6aMBk

 

 

The best description of the absurdity of some of the arguments Ive ever heard.

[manitoubass2]

 

 

The best description of the absurdity of some of the arguments Ive ever heard.

Yeah I agree this guy is absurd?

 

Funny, but its comedy, and nothing more.

Edited September 30, 2015 by manitoubass2

[G.mech]

Yes - there is a lot of violence in the U.S. but let me tell you something - most of the shootings goes on in the big cities where gang bangers are fighting over turf and shooting each other - if you didn't count those shootings the statistics would be a lot different -

 

 

I would have thought this was true without looking but these stats don't really support this explanation. In the list of deaths per capita by state, New York and California are near the bottom of the list and most of the top 10 are more 'rural' states.

 

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-per-100000/

[manitoubass2]

https://youtu.be/2H9hq-5nLzE

 

Just to liven things up

[JoePa]

G.mech - If you read what I posted you will find that I said - cities - not states - here's a sample - Detroit, 47.5 per 100.000 - Baltimore, 29.5 per 100,000 - New Orleans, 27.7 - Oakland Calif, 27.3 per 100,000 - and so forth - google cities with the highest gun deaths and you will see that what I posted it correct -

[spincast]

From Spincast's post:

 

"The US has higher rates of homicides from guns than Pakistan. At 4.5 deaths per 100,000 people, the US rates aren’t much lower than gun homicide rates in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (5.2 deaths per 100,000 people). Annually, the US has about two fewer gun homicide deaths per 100,000 people than Iraq, which has 6.5 deaths per 100,000."

 

.

 

 

 

I would have thought this was true without looking but these stats don't really support this explanation. In the list of deaths per capita by state, New York and California are near the bottom of the list and most of the top 10 are more 'rural' states.

 

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-per-100000/

which combined mean that the death rate per capita from guns in the US is very close to (actually, I believe the report said it was higher than Afghanistan), the death rates in the countries that they invaded to protect the populations.

[John Bacon]

G.mech - If you read what I posted you will find that I said - cities - not states - here's a sample - Detroit, 47.5 per 100.000 - Baltimore, 29.5 per 100,000 - New Orleans, 27.7 - Oakland Calif, 27.3 per 100,000 - and so forth - google cities with the highest gun deaths and you will see that what I posted it correct -

 

According to the list below; Flint Michigan, with a population of a ~100,000 has the worst homicide rate in the U.S. None of the four largest U.S. cities (New York, Los Angelas, Chicago, or Houston) are in the ten worst. In fact not one single city with a population of over one million people is on the list. So, it is not just a big city problem.

 

http://mic.com/articles/22686/america-s-10-deadliest-cities-2012

Edited September 30, 2015 by JohnBacon

[aplumma]

The amusing thing about this thread is it is like trying to explain sight to a blind person. The USA has pistols so deeply entrenched in our culture and our rights that Canadian can not see the long term effects it has on shaping our Nation. We have never had the privilege nor can we have the privilege of knowing that a pistol will not appear in a disagreement or worse a home invasion. I find that if the possibility of a gun being called in to play people will think twice before they create a situation where it is "needed". I had an incident up North where an elderly Frenchman cussed me out because I was tagged by my boats decal as an American for going past him in a narrow bridge channel. No reason at all for his cussing and also no reason I should have cussed back but he then threatened me with a sinker across my head. Now I think that if there was a chance of it escalating to something that could be life changing he would have held his tongue and we would have enjoyed the day without the incident. I also took comfort in the fact that if he did sail a sinker at me I would be on the shore beating his ass knowing the worst case scenario would be he pulls a knife. It is a strange situation that most people who haven't seen both sides can grasp much less convey to someone who has been taught something so foreign that neither has a common ground to grasp.

 

Art

[misfish]

 

 

I had an incident up North where an elderly Frenchman cussed me out because I was tagged by my boats decal as an American for going past him in a narrow bridge channel. No reason at all for his cussing and also no reason I should have cussed back but he then threatened me with a sinker across my head. Now I think that if there was a chance of it escalating to something that could be life changing he would have held his tongue and we would have enjoyed the day without the incident. I also took comfort in the fact that if he did sail a sinker at me I would be on the shore beating his ass knowing the worst case scenario would be he pulls a knife. It is a strange situation that most people who haven't seen both sides can grasp much less convey to someone who has been taught something so foreign that neither has a common ground to grasp.

 

 

Old frenchman meets Rambo. LOL

Edited September 30, 2015 by Brian B

[lew]

Art, if you guys feel you need to have guns everywhere you go , whether driving in your car, walking into a restaurant or going fishing, that's fine, but what bugs so many Canadians is when Americans tell us were wrong or foolish for not living the same way.

 

I remember reading on one of the American websites...maybe BBC...where a restaurant was no longer going to allow customers to bring their guns in with them. These guys thought that was terrible and several of them said they'd no longer go into any restaurant un-armed.

 

I've said it before and even talked with you about it when we were fishing, but I honestly wouldn't want to live in a country where I was so afraid that I couldn't go out without my gun with me.

 

Not meaning this as slam against you or any of my other American friends, but Canadians & Americans live in 2 totally different worlds and to be honest, I much prefer my world.

 

Feeling I need to carry a gun with me for protection when I go fishing is just so foreign to my mind I can't even get my brain around it.

[manitoubass2]

Lew that last sentence is what art is saying.

 

Me personally, id love concealed carry here in canada(ive mentioned it many times).

 

But is it necessity? No, im doing fine without it. But I would like that option.

 

And its not fear or anything ludacris, I just feel it should be our right.

 

But thats just my opinion.

 

Maybe its because I was born in america? A mere 500 yards from Canada??

 

Now, with rifles/shotguns. If the government tries to take those away ive got very serious issues with that.

Edited September 30, 2015 by manitoubass2

[Old Ironmaker]

Having to carry a handgun to go fishing is absurd. Now I have had shots flung over my head while loading rods into the car on the side of the road after fishing in El Jobean Florida. My response was to not fish there anymore. I guess I could continue going there, get a handgun and shoot back. As they say " you're not in Kansas anymore Dorothy". I used to go down there almost every month for a long weekend, no more. I don't want to sit in the condo after dark and cower in a corner holding my gun. So I choose to cower in the corner of my home trying to stay warm. I own 2 places in the US and don't even go down there for vacations anymore. I collect the rent and hope to sell them soon as my vision and plans of living down south in my senior years have changed.

[spincast]

The amusing thing about this thread is it is like trying to explain sight to a blind person. The USA has pistols so deeply entrenched in our culture and our rights that Canadian can not see the long term effects it has on shaping our Nation. We have never had the privilege nor can we have the privilege of knowing that a pistol will not appear in a disagreement or worse a home invasion. I find that if the possibility of a gun being called in to play people will think twice before they create a situation where it is "needed". I had an incident up North where an elderly Frenchman cussed me out because I was tagged by my boats decal as an American for going past him in a narrow bridge channel. No reason at all for his cussing and also no reason I should have cussed back but he then threatened me with a sinker across my head. Now I think that if there was a chance of it escalating to something that could be life changing he would have held his tongue and we would have enjoyed the day without the incident. I also took comfort in the fact that if he did sail a sinker at me I would be on the shore beating his ass knowing the worst case scenario would be he pulls a knife. It is a strange situation that most people who haven't seen both sides can grasp much less convey to someone who has been taught something so foreign that neither has a common ground to grasp.

 

Art

I pay taxes to the US every year. Iived there from birth till 18, with some stints overseas for months at a time. I question which party is blind in you allegory. The conclusion I draw from your story is you were sworn at and threatened by an ill mannered individual. . Do you mean to imply that in the US there are no rude interactions from jerks because the chances are someone is carrying a gun? And, FWIW, People like that, aren't worth my time, I turn and walk away

[manitoubass2]

No one has to carry a handgun fishing for safety.

 

Im assuming art carries it because IT IS HIS RIGHT to do so

Edited September 30, 2015 by manitoubass2

[kickingfrog]

And that might be the root of it. Who is blind and who has vision.

 

The title is: Defending your property in Ontario.

[SirCranksalot]

No one has to carry a handgun fishing for safety.

 

Im assuming art carries it because IT IS HIS RIGHT to do so

 

What kind of perverse logic is that? I have the right to whack myself repeatedly in the side of the head, but that doesn't mean I choose to do it!!

[manitoubass2]

 

What kind of perverse logic is that? I have the right to whack myself repeatedly in the side of the head, but that doesn't mean I choose to do it!!

Kinda sounds like you have?

 

And im joking. But that is your right, whack away if it makes ya feel better

Edited October 1, 2015 by manitoubass2

[SirCranksalot]

Kinda sounds like you have

 

Just following your example. Try posting once the pain goes away and maybe some logic returns!!