misfish Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) When the four sisters stopped discharging warm water, the browns left. Explain otherwise??? Was only asking a ? Back in the day,they were abundant there as you say,warm water discharge. Once the plant was torn down,I never returned. I have made the odd visits there since then,but only see lots of carp. I mean lots. The skimmer back in the day produced some of the biggests browns I have ever seen. I have said this before,but most have said they were stocked state side. Edited March 28, 2015 by Brian B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmonidstalker Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 I know about Bluffers Browns.....its no fishery, but then again it depends on what your idea of a "fishery" is. Mine certainly isnt the odd fish or two roaming around North Shore. The MNR's data is wrong. It just backs up their decisions to stock off break walls or harbours. Any bio with a head on their shoulders know that fish should be imprinted in rivers to keep them localized or at least part of the time but even then it doesn't mean they will stick around. For every theory that proves x there is a theory that proves y. Like I said, there is a fishery on the south shore because of the warm water but stocking more wont change anything. They will migrate to NY waters where the bait is most plentiful. And the ones that do come over to the CDN side is because the warm water also does spill into the south shore via the various water ways. NY takes advantage of what they have to create fisheries. The brown trout fishery on the NY side is world class. They know they will stay close to home because of the conditions the lake offers. It creates an amazing Spring, Fall and Winter fishery in the lake and in the rivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessy Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 Making super sites for Browns make sense. Seeing Browns don't migrate which I truly don't get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 The MNR's data is wrong. It just backs up their decisions to stock off break walls or harbours. Any bio with a head on their shoulders know that fish should be imprinted in rivers to keep them localized or at least part of the time but even then it doesn't mean they will stick around. For every theory that proves x there is a theory that proves y. The MNR's position on stocking the rivers is that most browns stocked in the rivers will stay in the rivers. Some will drop out to the lake if they get too big for the river, if there is an over population, or a shortage of food. However, the strain of browns being stocked are a resident river strain; they don't have the same drive to smolt out of the rives that salmon and steel head do. This is the MNR's data; not my opinion. Based on the MNR data, stocking the rivers will create a fishery for resident river browns; not a lake fishery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmonidstalker Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 You keep buying into the MNR data, but what fishery have they provided us in the past years. The only two amazing fisheries that I can think of are on the Credit River (thanks to CRAA) and the Saugeen River (thanks to the Ontario Steelheaders). I cant really think of any amazing fisheries that the MNR has provided. I am highly sceptical of their science. Just because they print it, doesn't mean its right. Science is highly subjective depending on the bio or company orchestrating the research. Explain the amazing Brown Trout fishery on the Oak Orchard River or 18 Mile Creek and other NY tributaries. They stock browns in those rivers and they return year after year. You can wish in one hand and crap in another, and see which one gets filled first. Sorry, MNR data is flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadadude Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 If you don't thunk there is a viable Brown fishery in Niagara perhaps you should get off the computer and come down and enjoy 20+ fish days with the rest of us. I catch Browns off the pier in July when the lake flips, the Browns are here all summer but only a few fish them, everybody wants the Kings. The Browns generally are in around 70'-100' of water away from schooling kings, they don't hit meat rigs, spin doctors, magnum spoons the fish are there. John is right the fish don't migrate around the lake like Salmon, they don't move to the blue zone like Steelhead and the reason NYS has so many is because they stock the crap out of those tribs. The MNR is following the US practice of Stocking lots of Browns in certain areas to create a viable fishery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 Eh I think ill stick to lake trout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 Eh I think ill stick to lake trout I hear ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister G Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 I hear ya. I hear both of you.........that's why I stick to lakes only nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmonidstalker Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) This discussion is not about getting away from the "snaggers" you're associating all river anglers to be. This is about making right decisions in the interest of all anglers. Making a better fishery for everyone to enjoy. Thats a great thing to teach a kid; "stick to the lakes son, don't meet other anglers that share your same interests". Yeah right! You can stick to your lakes if being alone is what makes you happy. I want to see positive change for our fishery; unfortunately I've seen the ball dropped many times over by the MNR. Anyone who has been involved in some form of management group or stakeholder committee knows the hurdles that need to be jumped and red tape that needs to be cut in order to put opportunities for anglers to enjoy. The politics involved are horrendous speaking from actual experience. I am curious though as to how many guys on this board participate in giving back to our resource? Like the thread title "Its your fishery". You should all care about it! Edited March 28, 2015 by VXP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 I do alot for my local fishery, or at least as much as I can. From selective harvest/walleye and northern pike, to catch and release/bass sturgeon and musky. My kids and I clean up the shoreline. We remove alot of snagged line from the water too. Every spring we volunteer at the sturgeon hatchery(amazing experience for the kids). Im not bashing the river steelheaders. Heck if I could find a place in the bush where I was totally sucluded it sounds like a great time/experience. but all the talk and stories of people fighting and littering and lopping fish up on the bank to die, its all just such a major turnoff. In the boat I can control whos in it, and where im going. Nice and scenic, quiet and great fishing. No one to bug me but great company Im all for us anglers protecting the resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 I must be the odd one here. Love Chinooks on the lake avoid them like the plague in the rivers, Bows love them in the river try to avoid them on the lake , found they have no stamina there. Like shore casting for browns spring and fall as I live a stones throw from the Grimsby pier. Cohos give a good account of themselves both on the lake and in a river and are the best of all on the table/smoker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 I must be the odd one here. Love Chinooks on the lake avoid them like the plague in the rivers, Bows love them in the river try to avoid them on the lake , found they have no stamina there. Like shore casting for browns spring and fall as I live a stones throw from the Grimsby pier. Cohos give a good account of themselves both on the lake and in a river and are the best of all on the table/smoker. In a similar boat as you.. Chinnies out in the lake are a riot, in the rivers no thanks. Same goes with steelhead. I'll chase them in the fall when they're fresh with the pin, rarely in the spring (I'll take residents over scruffy holdover fish any day of the week) and never in the lake unless I fluke one in the spring. I love me some spring lake trout action on the southern shore though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ironmaker Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 When the pins were fully functional we river and stream fished from opening until closing and some times in the summer, and loved it. When we could afford a charter every few years, was the only way we could ever get out on the lake because of costs. Once in a blue Moon a supplier would take us out on Erie or Ontario for a day otherwise it was tough $$ wise. From the Niagara to the St. Mary's river, from the Quebec border to where the Maitland River ends. Great exercise, met great people and was able to get out of the plant and the city. for a few hours or a few days. Fortunately it's now it's from the boat. It kills me to hear people that love the same sport argue as to what is the best way to enjoy it. Sportsmen can't agree on something as simple as boat vs. river, how in Heavens sake are people ever going to stop killing each other over politics and, and, and. Some fishermen want to punch each other out because of differences. Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icedude Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 WOW Worlds of Wonder- OFC Family-fascinating thread-Very mature-knowledgeable and--' classy'- of the ModSquad here not to pull-the-pin on this thread. When passions run fast and furious and ones science clashes/collides with another's science, it is a testament to this place.. members-admins-owners-sponsors et.al. that .. your point of view is respected here As some OFC'er said a while back--We have more in common than not Cheers ID1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairpy Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 How do you decifer what a resident and a migratory brown strain is? They are the same. Most will drop out of a river unless they are above a barrier as the water gets too warm and its in their dna to migrate. The browns we stock in the credit are from gametes of the migratory kind grown from eggs to smolts and stocked below norval. In the last few years the numbers of nice browns caught in the lower/mid credit are returning adults of the ones we stocked over the last 5-7 years in decent numbers. We are talking about the possble inshore stocking of browns around credit/humber area to possibly create a super awesome brown fishery for all to enjoy but the biggest hurdle is the cold north shore waters. The MNR's position on stocking the rivers is that most browns stocked in the rivers will stay in the rivers. Some will drop out to the lake if they get too big for the river, if there is an over population, or a shortage of food. However, the strain of browns being stocked are a resident river strain; they don't have the same drive to smolt out of the rives that salmon and steel head do. This is the MNR's data; not my opinion. Based on the MNR data, stocking the rivers will create a fishery for resident river browns; not a lake fishery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatnFly Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 personally, i'll go for anything, whether it be steelhead or salmon in the tribs, or panfish off a dock somewhere. I don't own a boat, so for me its strictly shore fishing, i get out on lake ontario maybe once a year, so for me, to feel the tug of a salmon from shore is a thrill for those asking what fishery the ministry has given us.......lake ontario. we fished to near extinction just over a hundred years ago, and through stocking efforts of the late 1800's through to now, they've managed to provide a pretty good salmon and steelhead fishery. sorry if its not your preferred species, but something is better than nothing. what they really need to do is revamp the atlantic salmon program, how many millions of atlantics have been dumped into the tribs over the years, and how many are actually returning, its a pretty low number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) Get rid of the Atlantic program all together and get that $$$ put towards stream rehab/improving spawning habitat. The fish will take care of the rest. Edited April 20, 2015 by BillM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Get rid of the Atlantic program all together and get that $$$ put towards stream rehab/improving spawning habitat. The fish will take care of the rest. A lot of the dollars spent on the Atlantic program are donated specifically for that purpose. Using that money for other species is not an option. And some of those dollars are spent on stream rehabilitation. There is some hope for the Atlantic stocking. The new strains, Sebago and Lac St. Jean are now in the system. These strains do much better in the hatchery. The Lehav salmon are extremely sensitive. There water needs to be heated in order for them to feed, they die if you turn the lights on too quickly, half of them die when they are stocked. The new strains are much more resiliant... at least in the hatchery. Hopefully, this will translate into better returns. Stocking the Lehav strain over the last 40 or so years has been a waste of time. I think the Sebago and Lac St. Jean will do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Get rid of the Atlantic program all together and get that $$$ put towards stream rehab/improving spawning habitat. The fish will take care of the rest. I'm sure there was a lot of money from the atlantic program put towards habitat and stream rehab in the rivers the atlantics were stocked in. A lot more than would have been done without it i believe. I'm not for or against the atlantic program, but the money is going somewhere, and if stream rehab is a result of the program, I'm all for it. Whether the atlantics take off or not is a whole different story. It will take many years to see anything, that's for sure. S. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatnFly Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 A lot of the dollars spent on the Atlantic program are donated specifically for that purpose. Using that money for other species is not an option. And some of those dollars are spent on stream rehabilitation. There is some hope for the Atlantic stocking. The new strains, Sebago and Lac St. Jean are now in the system. These strains do much better in the hatchery. The Lehav salmon are extremely sensitive. There water needs to be heated in order for them to feed, they die if you turn the lights on too quickly, half of them die when they are stocked. The new strains are much more resiliant... at least in the hatchery. Hopefully, this will translate into better returns. Stocking the Lehav strain over the last 40 or so years has been a waste of time. I think the Sebago and Lac St. Jean will do better. was going to say, they couldn't have picked a worse strain of atlantic to use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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