Milky lower unit oil concern...

[siwash]

I didn't get around to draining the lower unit oil on my outboard in the fall.. this is the first winter I had the boat (purchased in late spring 2022).  I stored it in my unheated garage.  

I drained it today... What can I make of this?  How bad is this?  thanks... 

 

 

[BillM]

I'd guess you've got water getting in somewhere.  

[Barry Willis]

Howdy Siwash, More often than not the water gets in through the prop shaft seal. Personally I would take it to a reputable marina or some one that has the knowledge etc. to do the job and they will or should also inspect the gears and bearings and put it through a pressure test in order to determine if you need any other seals replaced. I have seen it happen just from the screw. Good luck Bud.

[Barry Willis]

Further to - Not to come across as a smart a$& know it all but if you chose to do this yourself a pressure test will tell you where the water is getting in, this should be done carefully or you will wlnd up blowing seals that do not need replaced. I am sure I do not have to tell you obviously a fair bit of water has entered the leg to be that milky. I never thought of it before but there are likely some videos on Yutube but ya have to be careful there to. 

[glen]

Put the oil in a bottle and let it sit overnight. Then you can how much water is in the oil.  

[siwash]

4 hours ago, glen said:

Put the oil in a bottle and let it sit overnight. Then you can how much water is in the oil.  

And what will that tell me? I guess the more you have the worse... can this motor be run? Does this indicate a serious, costly problem?  This is the first time I've had water in a lower unit outboard I've owned.

 

Also, can someone recommend a reputable marine mechanic in the north-west corner of York Region?  I am between Schomberg and the 400 just south of #9... so Anything from Newmarket, Bradford, Aurora (all 20 min) or even places like Bolton, King City, Tottenham or even Vaughan... all of those locations are within 30 min of me. 

 

Thanks!!

[Rizzo]

if the water just came in thru a seal, and your garage didnt get too ridiculously cold (ie it is attached to the house) it might not be too big a deal. Just my thoughts.

[siwash]

5 minutes ago, Rizzo said:

if the water just came in thru a seal, and your garage didnt get too ridiculously cold (ie it is attached to the house) it might not be too big a deal. Just my thoughts.

Yeah it's attached to the house... and we had a mild winter... 

 

I didn't use the boat/motor too much.  It ran fine. It must have been damaged before I bought it. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by siwash

[Fisherman]

Not to sound evil but here's the proof that maintenance has to be done before putting things away. At worst, I hope for your sake the water in the mix didn't get to freeze, expand and cause cracks/splits in the lower housing.  The same goes for pulling wheel bearings in the fall, sitting with hubs full of water isn't good either.  Lesson learned.

[siwash]

7 hours ago, Fisherman said:

Not to sound evil but here's the proof that maintenance has to be done before putting things away. At worst, I hope for your sake the water in the mix didn't get to freeze, expand and cause cracks/splits in the lower housing.  The same goes for pulling wheel bearings in the fall, sitting with hubs full of water isn't good either.  Lesson learned.

Agreed... if i had at least drained it, I could at least sleep well know that the above wouldn't happen.. but it was already leaking.  The guy I bought it off did not reveal this... Caveat Emptor!

[Terry]

Top gun marine is the guy most of the tournament guys take their boat to for repair, he is on highway 11 between Bradford and Innisfil 

[BITEME]

Here is my take on this I have had lots of experience in this

you had water during the boating season for sure it didn’t happen over the winter if it did stay emulsified over the winter you should be okay you said used it’s likely time I try to do the seal every two years religiously unless I see what your seeing 

going forward if you want to drain in the fall fine but replace the oil you drain don’t let them sit dry

this is a quick fix without getting soaked by a dealer the prop seal is very easy to do in your driveway do this first and run the motor on the water for a week if it’s milky again you could have other issues and it could be higher up the drive if not your a champ you didn’t say how big your motor was not that it matters pretty much all the same on the drive end

its easy you can do it

cheers 

peter

[BITEME]

If you want to pay me to fly out from Nova Scotia I’ll come do it 

but in reality I will say again it’s easy to do and doesn’t take long I only did pressure tests on the rescue boat drives as of roof of repair( needs to be reliable)

[siwash]

Thanks so much, Biteme... I will try your steps first before I take it to a mechanic. 

 

 

[siwash]

2 hours ago, BITEME said:

Here is my take on this I have had lots of experience in this

you had water during the boating season for sure it didn’t happen over the winter if it did stay emulsified over the winter you should be okay you said used it’s likely time I try to do the seal every two years religiously unless I see what your seeing 

going forward if you want to drain in the fall fine but replace the oil you drain don’t let them sit dry

this is a quick fix without getting soaked by a dealer the prop seal is very easy to do in your driveway do this first and run the motor on the water for a week if it’s milky again you could have other issues and it could be higher up the drive if not your a champ you didn’t say how big your motor was not that it matters pretty much all the same on the drive end

its easy you can do it

cheers 

peter

So we are talking about the seal at the prop?  I'm also going to check the drain screws as well... I didn't notice the washers on them when I unscrewed them. Either they are crushed onto the metal or they are missing altogether. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by siwash

[BITEME]

Yes we are talking about the seal at the prop and both fill screws upper and lower should have either o rings or crush washers

[lew]

2 hours ago, siwash said:

  I'm also going to check the drain screws as well... I didn't notice the washers on them when I unscrewed them. Either they are crushed onto the metal or they are missing altogether. 

+++Good idea to change those washer every time you change the oil.+++

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by lew

[AKRISONER]

5 hours ago, BITEME said:

 

going forward if you want to drain in the fall fine but replace the oil you drain don’t let them sit dry

 

As mentioned above, this most certainly looks like a failed prop shaft seal. 
 

Just out of curiousity, what would be the problem with leaving the lower end without oil over the winter. Not that I’ve personally done it, I think one time my bottle pump broke so I was stuck for a day with no oil, but just curious as to why a sitting motor lower end that obviously still got a film of oil all over it would be damaged by sitting for a couple of months with no oil.

 

either way siwash, lesson learned, at minimum undo that screw at the end of the year, no matter what get the years gear oil the hell out of there even if it’s nowhere near as watery as this. Being fair this is some of the worst looking oil I have ever seen, that crank case was completely full of water as far as I can tell. You may get really lucky and have no other damage. My buddies merc used to leak water too not anywhere close to this extent but if you’re lucky the water didn’t expand and crack your Lower end. if you’re like my buddy you might get away with it for a year. 
 

this kinda stuff haunts me when I think about the fact my boat is used, who knows what kind of maintenance or lack thereof people do at the end of the year. I’m not as much of a nutcase to be changing my prop shaft seal every 2 years as referenced above, but I sure as hell change the lower end oil, fog the motor, change fuel filters every 100 hours, stabilize my ethanol free fuel etc etc 

hopefully worth it in the long run, high performance engines ain’t cheap in 2023!

Edited April 14, 2023 by AKRISONER

[porkpie]

I’ve seen worse.  I had an old Johnson 25hp that ran flooded like this on many occasions when I was a teenager.  It never crapped out on me.  Yes if it froze it would be bad news, and certainly at some point with oil like that you could have a catastrophic failure.  But I expect you’ll probably be ok as it was in a garage.  Get the seals changed. As for leaving an outboard empty of gear oil.  I did it once or twice when pressed for time in the fall on my old boat.  No harm no foul.  But you do need to put a few wraps of orange flagging tape around the lower as a visual reminder that you need to fill it up in the spring!

Edited April 15, 2023 by porkpie

[siwash]

So I took the prop off... no fishing line wrapped around it... the screws have their washers in place.  I'll replace those. See pics below the video.. I see from the video that the seals are imbedded into the shaft and require to be pulled out using some of the methods in this video... 

I found this video - how does this method look?  

 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by siwash

[BITEME]

Video looks good just take time 

you can do it!!!

 

cheers

Peter

[siwash]

I'm wondering if I should try to get at the seal by unscrewing these screws and pull off that lower piece (keel)?

 

 

[BITEME]

The video method is good I have taken seals out like that not going to lie

taking it off is my preferred method I would suggest you go one set of screws higher and get access to the water pump and change that rubber impeller 

worse thing is to be out in the middle of your favourite lake and not pumping cooling water 

once you undo it it will drop a bit and hang on the shift linkage usually a coupler with 2 set screws loosen  the lower and the lower unit will come away put it up on a bench and go to town you will see the housing for the impeller you can’t miss it

troll some forums specific to your mortor

first time is always painful and bloody take your time be patient use your cell for disassembly and reassembly

the money you save buy a new toy for the boat and take pride in your new skill

YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!!

cheers

peter

 

 

[BITEME]

One more thing and this may not be kosher for everyone and may not even be necessary when I put it all back together again I usually sneer a thin layer of gasket maker on the flat matting surfaces

peace out

peter

[AKRISONER]

Also, don’t forget to throw some grease on the gear shaft when reinserting it up into the top end, it will make your life a hell of a lot easier!