Automotive service question

[Big Cliff]

Here is a new one on me, I recently took my 2019 Rav 4 in for its 48000 km service, one of the things that was "recommended" was to change the brake fluid at a cost of $85.00. Now I have been driving for about 60 years now and I have never heard of this before, is this just another money making scam or is it something that should be done?

[Fisherman]

It's a recommended thing, preventive maintenance.  Brake fluid absorbs moisture from the atmosphere and can cause the internal workings for master cylinders, calipers, etc to become rusty inside.  Usually done on a 2 year cycle or mileage, depends on your vehicle.  The fluid is usually clear but turns yellow to brown after going bad.

[pics]

I have 60 k on my truck and just had it in for brake service but I'm pretty sure they didn't change the fluid..

[John]

Cliff, Check your service manual. What does it say at 48K? 

 

[OhioFisherman]

https://www.toyotaofsantabarbara.com/rav4-recommended-maintenance-oil-change/

" Check condition of brake fluid "

I see that at 15-30k miles, but I have never had it done or had a brake fluid issue, and this is the first time I have heard of it.

[Fisherman]

I know my VW recommends it at 60K, even my ATV recommends it.

[aplumma]

I replace all of my fluids as per the schedule in the book. It is good cheap insurance. The brake fluid of yesteryear dot3 and the new dot5 are different with the 5 being less hydrophobic meaning it stays separated between the dot5 and the water a little better. The down side is it allows the water to contact the ABS system and sensors in the brake system and they rust or become blind. 

Art

[Whitespinnerbait]

Money Grab.....

[Old Ironmaker]

My wonderful woman bought me a brand spankin new Silverado 4X4 in November of 2011. My 1st ever new vehicle ever. If I did each and every recommended service in the book it would take a big chunk of money out of my pocket. That doesn't mean I don't do any recommended service especially on the drive train which I had a warranty I paid for. I did all the services that were mandatory to keep the warranty. Fluids, yes, filters of course but not like stuff like a cabin filter.

The best thing I can recommend to you Cliff is to find a local independent service guy that is qualified to do service under warranty and run away from the dealer, run as fast as you can. A GM dealer had the audacity to charge me for 2 tire air stem caps at 2 bucks a piece or some ridiculous thing.  When I took the truck into a local family owned service shop for oil service I took 2 caps off the tires. They put new caps on at no charge. They passed my test. Bye, bye Mr. GM.  I have been with the 2 brothers that own the local shop for 10 years now. That's a record for me. My wife takes the truck to work, one of their guys go to her store, get her keys and take the truck in. They bring her keys and the truck back then she goes and pays them after work. Try and get a GM or any dealer to do that.  

[Old Ironmaker]

13 hours ago, Fisherman said:

It's a recommended thing, preventive maintenance.  Brake fluid absorbs moisture from the atmosphere and can cause the internal workings for master cylinders, calipers, etc to become rusty inside.  Usually done on a 2 year cycle or mileage, depends on your vehicle.  The fluid is usually clear but turns yellow to brown after going bad.

A question, if the brake system and fluid is a completely closed loop how does moisture from the atmosphere get in it? 

[Old Ironmaker]

Is it on my end because the edit feature no longer exists at the bottom right on my post. I need much editing often. 

[Big Cliff]

Well, I read the service manual from front to back, I went on the Toyota web site, and to be honest I don't know what to think. One spot in the service manual said 96,000 km, another spot in the same book shows it at 48,000 km ( this is a service book provided by the dealership). I think the thing that upset me most was that I was blindsided by the whole thing, I have never been told this was necessary prior to this and when i show up at the dealership all of a sudden "oh but wait, theres more"! The brake service I do understand, that was an extra $200.00 to clean and lubricate the calipers etc.. the pads, rotors and everything were fine, 90% of my driving is highway. Anyway, I do want to maintain my vehicle,  I intend to keep it for a few years so I guess I am going to have to bite the bullet, I just get the feeling that I'm being taken. 

[DanD]

8 hours ago, Old Ironmaker said:

A question, if the brake system and fluid is a completely closed loop how does moisture from the atmosphere get in it? 

The moisture gets in through the reservoir/fill cap vent hole.

We here at the shop try and follow the manufacturers maintenance schedule; not the businesses sales manager's. When something in the maintenance schedule comes up, we let the customer know, we explain why and then stand back and let them decide; no pressure sales.

Cliff I just had a look through your car's schedule for the 48K and there no (Not that I saw) mention of a brake fluid change/flush? Just check level and condition. So I guess if it looks clean leave it; if dirty change as required. I didn't look through all of the different 8000Klm intervals; but the one's I did, again doesn't suggest replacing the fluid? The one thing I did notice (had to laugh at Toyota's paranoia),was to check & adjust the driver's floor mat. LOL

Here's something to think about. Unless Toyota are doing these servicing's at no charge to you; they cannot void the warrantee, if you take your vehicle elsewhere for these servicing's. As long as you have it documented that the service was done on time and the recommended or its equivalent materials are used. 

Dan.

[GBW]

10 hours ago, DanD said:

Here's something to think about. Unless Toyota are doing these servicing's at no charge to you; they cannot void the warrantee, if you take your vehicle elsewhere for these servicing's. As long as you have it documented that the service was done on time and the recommended or its equivalent materials are used. 

Dan.

I take the Mrs Kia anywhere I see fit for most service and 1 time a year it will go to a Kia dealer to ensure there are no open recalls on her car.  Otherwise, any good shop worth it's salt will do.  

[DanD]

You don’t have to actually go to the dealership to check for policies or recalls. Call whatever dealership, give them you VIN # and mileage. Legally they must tell you if there is anything outstanding on your vehicle. Sometimes government policies do work for us. LOL

Dan. 

[DanD]

Mind you recalls and policies must be done at the dealership. 
but hey if they’re paying that’s OK. LOL 

[HTHM]

Kia dealers make me feel like Satan, they are always trying to sell me their Soul. 🤪

[GBW]

3 hours ago, DanD said:

Mind you recalls and policies must be done at the dealership. 
but hey if they’re paying that’s OK. LOL 

Hence the reason the car going once a year as it's a 2020 Forte 5 GT so it's got a lot of warranty left and seeing as I worked for the local one in the past, I want to ensure there isn't any 'neglect' issues.  So all service work bills from other shops stay in the car such as a brake service.  

Edited September 24, 2020 by GBW

[cisco]

Just use a turkey baster thing and suck out as much from the master as able and replace with new. Do this a few times over the course of a couple weeks and viola the old is replaced with new at the cost of very little. It'll look newer in color as you progress.

- from a cheapskate I know.

[Fisherman]

1 hour ago, cisco said:

Just use a turkey baster thing and suck out as much from the master as able and replace with new. Do this a few times over the course of a couple weeks and viola the old is replaced with new at the cost of very little. It'll look newer in color as you progress.

- from a cheapskate I know.

I really don't think brake fluid is "rotated" through the system.  The brake fluid reservoir is just that, no in and out line.  All you would have is a reasonably clean reservoir and old fluid past that.

[captpierre]

I drive a Toyota 4Runner. I was given a maintenance schedule for every 8,000 km. I’m at 150,000 and no mention of brake fluid change. 

[cisco]

 

[cisco]

Check around 2:20 where he says what some 'stealerships do" like where he works.

IMHO moisture will 'balance out' so the new stuff will get mixed to dilute the water. If the idea that the master cylinder's fluid won't get to the lines then same reasoning is that moisture will stay in the master where it get in via vent and cap removal.  Moisture therefore has to be largely in the master which you are replacing....

Just giving a $ saving tip I heard but now found on Utube. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by cisco

[Big Cliff]

I really appreciate all the replies!  Dan, over the years you have ALWAYS provided knowledgable, sensible advice, boy do I wish you were closer 😊. There is a shop here in Lindsay, John's Quality Auto; they have a wonderful reputation for being honest and thurough, I think I will be taking all my future work to them. 

Thanks again😊

[DanD]

Just read John’s google reviews. Sounds like a place worth trying?

If you ever need a mechanic’s ear to chew on, over a vehicle’s issue, please feel free to call. (Will PM #)

With contra, you may not be going South this winter? If so and Lake Simcoe/weather cooperates; I’ll get you a key to my fish hut. We could work out details, when time comes. Cost to you would be helping me with hut location. LOL

Dan