Old Ironmaker Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 A rhetorical question. This was discussed here a few times and I asked that question to my broker last year. We had our annual review of coverage today and I reminded him I asked him last year but he never got back to me. It wasn't a answer I readily needed as I knew I wasn't going onto the ice ever again with any of my vehicles. The simple answer I got was a definite no. Same with the snow machine, no coverage for loss through the ice unless I as driving on a roadway and lost control and went into a river etc. Many folks here drive on the ice. I would get a definite answer in writing from your broker before you do it again, car, truck, ATV or snow machine. He said there are policies that will cover loss through the ice like on those ice roads north. But it ain't cheap. Check to be 110% certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIFTER_016 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 You may want to find anew insurance agent. Insurance covers loss through the ice up here, no reason it shouldn't down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 when I'm asked this question, or any other, I always respond in the same way. ask your broker and get an answer in writing. good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I would follow Steve's advice on that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatnFly Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 not unless its a designated iceroad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ironmaker Posted March 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 You may want to find anew insurance agent. Insurance covers loss through the ice up here, no reason it shouldn't down there. Are you positive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Fully covered, by your liability coverage if nothing else and your comprehensive if you pay for it. Might wanna find a new broker. Edited March 22, 2016 by irishfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 remember, not all companies provide the same coverage. each policy can differ from one another. also, to further complicate things, brokers can provide incorrect information, and a broker does not determine claim coverage or payout.... which is why to keep the confirmations from the broker in writing. the company I work for looks at whether you are moving on the ice, or parked on the ice, when the vehicle goes through...it makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Caster Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I've never heard of a vehicle through the ice get denied coverage; to put it another way, I've never seen a personal (commercial is different) vehicle owner get left to recover a vehicle through the ice on his/her own dime. Imagine how many vehicles would still be at the bottom of the lake if people had to pay $20-50 grand to pull out there own vehicle? It just doesn't happen this way. just yesterday I asked this exact question to the owner of the company that does many, if not most, of the ice recoveries in Ontario Your broker is likely not reading the wording in your policy, he is just going on instinct or false information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I'm fully covered, and I have that in writing. Both my vehicle, and sled. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennesseeGuy Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Comprehensive, less the deductible, provides coverage on a vehicle falling through the ice. Insurance agents are salesmen. They are experts in determining commissions on sales. Policies explain coverage. Declarations pages (page attached to front of policy) list additional coverage and take away from coverage described in policy. For information pertaining to a specific coverage I suggest writing a letter to a claims adjustor requesting clarification. Ask for a written reply and hold onto it. An agent working in a cold climate and not knowing coverage for vehicles falling through ice, needs to get outside more. Moving to a warmer climate would be good. Insist that you be covered according to the provisions of your policy, not according to the opinion of a sales person representing an insurance company. Edited March 22, 2016 by TennesseeGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIFTER_016 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Are you positive? Yep, a Newfie fella drove his brand new F350 last year or the year before on a lake with no ice road in early spring and sunk it. Insurance covered the loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.brock Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Wow, interesting. I've never looked into it, but assumed and from what I've heard, falling through the ice wouldn't be covered. What's the difference of being moving or being stopped on the ice with respect to insurance coverage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ironmaker Posted March 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 All I know for an absolute certainty is that I'm not covered whether through collision or comp. I don't need it regardless. I started this thread to create some awareness only. I am a member of a small mutual here in rural country. My agent is my broker and he is the claims adjuster here and wears a few other hats as well to keep our rates as low as possible. The few agents we have are not paid a commission I'm told. After years of working out of an old cold and leaky shoebox we built a very nice Georgian style building overlooking the Grand River, with cash on hand. The large conference room can be reserved by members and local non members for community meetings or get togethers for members only for no charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsman Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) When I purchaced the insurance for my ATV it was an important question I asked. It turned out that the company that currently has my insurance covers on ice use. Another company the broker represents does not. This insurance company includes a free rider which prohibits on ice use. They don't even charge for this service. Mighty nice of them. Edited March 23, 2016 by Woodsman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ironmaker Posted March 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) If an agent or broker says "yes", or even better "I don't see why not" take our insurance guru Terry's advice and get it in writing. That's all I'm saying. Look at Woodsman's post above this one. Perfect example. Policies can differ greatly for each provider. You need to be a Bay St. lawyer to understand my property damage coverage for this lakefront place. 1 in 100 year storm vs. a 1 in 50 year storm, elevation of dwelling from water level, break wall or not, construction of building, i.e. Hurricane bracing and on and on. Assume you aren't covered and then ask if you are and get it in writing. Did you know that coverage for loss by damage from fire may be dependant on how close a tree limb is from your roof if your neighbours place sets your place on fire. A former employee of mine got a registered letter saying he had "X" amount of time to clean his property up or he would not be covered for personal liability to second parties or fire damage. We are talking about the rural farmer that has 20 abandoned vehicles, old trailers, motorhomes, boats. Right down to the 6 cords of seasoned firewood piled against the wall of his house. I know someone is going to call Bull, but it's 110% true I tell ya, they are getting tougher and tougher, especially out here in rural country. I have heard of folks getting a similar letter because they were in need of a new roof. I do not like insurance providers. Like Yogi Berra said. "Ya don't need it if ya got it and don't have it when ya need it." Edited March 23, 2016 by Old Ironmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acountdeleted Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 You may want to find anew insurance agent. Insurance covers loss through the ice up here, no reason it shouldn't down there. Did they also try to sell you their costal beach house in Saskatchewan when they sold you loss through ice insurance? (Seriously, is the ice ever less then 4 feet thick up there?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIFTER_016 Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Did they also try to sell you their costal beach house in Saskatchewan when they sold you loss through ice insurance? (Seriously, is the ice ever less then 4 feet thick up there?) You could ask this guy who went through last Saturday. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/plow-plunges-through-lake-dog-derby-1.3503132 Then there's this fella from early March up on Great Bear Lake. My landlord flew to Deline today to work on recovery of this truck. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/truck-plunges-deline-ice-road-1.3477869 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ironmaker Posted March 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) Drifter, one of my wife's favorite shows is Ice Road Truckers. A cliffhanger every commercial break, no one ever goes through the ice. So I guess some do. It seems every other TV show on the specialty channels are about Alaska, the Yukon, NWT and all the ice roads where M2B2 lives or any other God forsaken cold place. And 2 inches of ice where you are in when June? Is the same 2" of ice that idiotos take their new Audi 8's out onto here. An inch is an inch except when measuring fish or trouser trout. One of my faves up north is where the crazy folks live on house boats on Great Slave or is it Great Bear Lake in the dead of winter. Apparently if they aren't docked laws of the land don't apply. And of course Gold Rush. The one where all the Americuns think the Yukon is part of the USA. Edited March 23, 2016 by Old Ironmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIFTER_016 Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Drifter, one of my wife's favorite shows is Ice Road Truckers. A cliffhanger every commercial break, no one ever goes through the ice. So I guess some do. It seems every other TV show on the specialty channels are about Alaska, the Yukon, NWT and all the ice roads where M2B2 lives or any other God forsaken cold place. And 2 inches of ice where you are in when June? Is the same 2" of ice that idiotos take their new Audi 8's out onto here. An inch is an inch except when measuring fish or trouser trout. One of my faves up north is where the crazy folks live on house boats on Great Slave or is it Great Bear Lake in the dead of winter. Apparently if they aren't docked laws of the land don't apply. And of course Gold Rush. The one where all the Americuns think the Yukon is part of the USA. Yeah, the house boaters are in Yellowknife Bay. I actually know Pike Mike quite well as we guided together up on Great Bear for quite a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Im covered here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ironmaker Posted March 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) Yeah, the house boaters are in Yellowknife Bay. I actually know Pike Mike quite well as we guided together up on Great Bear for quite a few years. That's really cool, and I was going to mention Pike Mike was one of my favorites. As well as the young couple that got married last season. When is your show coming out, "How to build a Arctic Mansion with 2 hands only". Comprehensive, less the deductible, provides coverage on a vehicle falling through the ice. Insurance agents are salesmen. They are experts in determining commissions on sales. Policies explain coverage. Declarations pages (page attached to front of policy) list additional coverage and take away from coverage described in policy. For information pertaining to a specific coverage I suggest writing a letter to a claims adjustor requesting clarification. Ask for a written reply and hold onto it. An agent working in a cold climate and not knowing coverage for vehicles falling through ice, needs to get outside more. Moving to a warmer climate would be good. Insist that you be covered according to the provisions of your policy, not according to the opinion of a sales person representing an insurance company. Some good advice but how would anyone know what coverage they actually have until you ask and get it in writing? The policy may show what is covered but what doesn't tell you what has to be in place in order to have a claim paid out. Nowhere on my policy does it say anything about how far from a property a tree limb must be in order for the provider to pay out a fire claim. The only reason I know this for a fact is because I was told by an insurance inspector who did an onsite perusal. My policy doesn't tell me, same as a railing needing to be to code in the case someone falls off the deck and I would be covered for their loss. No "Grandfathered in" scenarios when it comes to insurance providers I was told. It is my responsibility to ensure my place is to code. If I hadn't have been in construction I wouldn't have a clue when it comes to what or what is not up to code. Common sense usually tells someone if a "to code" railing is needed. Just 1 example. Edited March 23, 2016 by Old Ironmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curryale Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Every automobile policy issued in Ontario is exactly the same. It is on a standard form https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/forms/Documents/OAP-1-Application-and-Endorsement-Forms/1215E.2.pdf Looks to me like it would be covered if you purchase the optional coverage under section 7 (sinking). You can find out if you have that by looking at your declaration page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigdritchie Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I would expect it's probably not quite as black and white as that. Go through the ice very early in the winter when it's just forming, or in early spring when everyone knows it's breaking up and the insurance company could argue you didn't take reasonable care to prevent the accident from occurring. Insurance isn't mean to cover stupidity or negligence. Just saying ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ironmaker Posted March 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Every automobile policy issued in Ontario is exactly the same. It is on a standard form https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/forms/Documents/OAP-1-Application-and-Endorsement-Forms/1215E.2.pdf Looks to me like it would be covered if you purchase the optional coverage under section 7 (sinking). You can find out if you have that by looking at your declaration page. Interesting, I have never seen anything like that from my Broker in 43 years of buying auto insurance. Great link thanks. Now I have a duzzey of a headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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