My boat is sitting too high in the bow.

[Old Ironmaker]

I noticed when looking at Pics while sitting in the water last fall at Maskinonje on Nippising that the bow was sitting far too high. It is a StarCraft Superfisherman 190 with a 115 Mariner and 15 Mariner kicker. I had put on the kicker last year and since I was trailering it all year never noticed it. I had removed my Motorguide and 2 12 volts since I never used it where I fish and the batteries were pooched anyway. So this year I put the dead batteries back in which weigh a total of 120 pounds. Thinking this would offset the wt. of the 90 pound kicker. Well the bow is still sitting too high. I noticed tonight while getting the boat ready for tomorrow that the skung line from having the boat moored in a creek for a few days earlier this month that the top of the water line was actually higher than the drain ports for the transom water well. This boat has always taken on a bit of water but not enough to trip the auto bilge. Actually I kept an eye on it when it was in a slip for 3 days and the auto bilge never came on and a bit of water came out when I selected the pump with the switch. When we took the boat out the water that was in it triped the bilge and it did flow for a few minutes and when I removed the plug she ran out with a good flow for a few minutes, the guys were calling me Titanic 2, not funny. There was a good amount or should I say bad amount of water in there. I am concerned now, I don't like the drains at or just below the water line. I know that's not good. And I am responsible for everyone on my boat.

 

I have always checked for leaks by putting water into the bilge while on the trailer. You guys and gals here tell me that is a no no. We have done it for years to check for leaks. I have never done it on this boat and won't. I will have the boat in tomorrow and you can be sure I will be checking it steady.

 

Finally my question, where do I start and how can I check for leaks. I bought a new plug and it does not leak. I put water into the water well to check to see if the bilge port is leaking, actually I put plumbers tape on it, no leaks there. Your comments are all welcome. Please steer me in the right direction before I take it in to the guy that charges $100.00 an hour. Sorry long post for one question.

 

Thanks all

Johnny D

Edited June 25, 2015 by Old Ironmaker

[mike rousseau]

I would just re seal your drain fittings with silicone or whatever works good for you... Not a big job at all... Maybe install some check valves on you "out" hoses to prevent water from getting in when the drain line ends up underwater...

 

My live well on my boat fills from the drain when there's weight in the boat... Even more when I go in reverse...

[Mister G]

To me it sounds like too much weight on the transom. Can't you troll down enough with the 115....Take the kicker off and see where it sits.....I only use my 24 volt Minn Kota to SLOW troll.

[John Bacon]

Does it still sit with the drains below water when you first put it in the water after trailering it (I assume that you remove the drain plus when you trailer it)? If so, that may be where the water is getting it.

 

Sealing your splash well may help; but you may just have too much weight on the transom.

[limeyangler]

Get a fat girlfriend to sit up front.

[Fisherman]

Get a fat girlfriend to sit up front.

Bahahahahahaha

[dave524]

How old is the boat? I know my older (early 80's) 18 foot Starcraft/Sylvan was rated for up to 140 hp, but , back then a 2 stroke V4 Johnson was only 310 pounds and went up to 140 horses. I had a V4 and a 2 stroke 9.9 on the back, 310 plus maybe 60 for the kicker and I was at the max weight the transom would safely handle. I really don't think you could safely repower with the heavier 4 stroke motors of today, I see now that most 18 foot boats have a wider beam than the 84 inches I had, probably to give the stern more buoyancy for the heavier motors, even an 85 E-tec 2 stroke is as heavy as my old 85 and kicker combined.

[davew3]

Ironmaker as noted if you could, take the 9.9 off and see how it sits. You may have to cut down on the hp kicker. You really do not want to see any larger waves come up over the back.

 

Regards

[davey buoy]

Temporarily John,can you add a tee in the hose,with two valves,open the new line valve that will be going over the side with hose.Great idea when parked with a auto bilge pump for now?.3 way valve would work well in this case,till you sort things out .

Edited June 25, 2015 by davey buoy

[DanD]

After reading your first post here; I went googling for pictures of your style of boat. The ones that I've found, sitting still in the water; all looked like they were dragging their ass? If you could post a pic of yours, it might shed some light on the subject?

Have a look at this vid; I think it's close to your boat; stop the vid and have a look at the water line stain on the transom. Is that close to where your's would be?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpOnhSZD_f4

 

Dan.

[davey buoy]

The drain hole under water is not a good thing either.Maybe the kicker is the bugger?

[misfish]

Where is Big Bob sitting?

[aplumma]

If the drain hole is the bilge pump outlet then it can be back siphoning a big no no. All hull breaches need to be above the scumline at all times unless they have a check valve like on the lines to and from the livewells. Remove the kicker and stand in the front of the boat and have someone check the water line in relation to the bow height.will give you an idea of what weight has to be moved.

 

 

Art

[Old Ironmaker]

All good suggestions guys, much appreciated. Sorry the quote feature doesn't work on my PC anylonger so I will try and answer each question regardless.

 

First I have to say we had the boat in the water for 5 hours. The water line was about 1" below the 2 transom water well drains. The scum line from the last time the boat was in, moored for 4 days, was 1" above these 2 drain holes.

 

While on the water the auto bilge never kicked on, no water drained from bilge when manually selected. When I made a hole shot the bilge also did not come on. When I pulled the plug on the ramp water did run out for a count of 17 steamboat. Not abnormal for this boat for 7 years.

 

To answer some questions.

 

Mike, are you suggesting silicone drain plug at bottom of transom? I change the plug every year and have new screw type rubber plug. Drains for 2 live wells and 1 baitwell are well above the discharge ports that are at the very bottom of the transom. From what I have learned water can't run up hill unless forced by hydrostatic pressure. I don't believe there are any check valves on discharge hoses. They are all buried in the bilge, not accessible as far as I can see. Are these the drains you suggest I silicone?

 

Mr G. I have never had a problem trolling down to 1.5 MPH with the 115. I have always been told trolling for long durations with the big engine is not good. When I found the 15HP for sale that matched my 115 by make and year, found it was elec. start and throttle controls that I could mount on the port side easily I could not resist buying it, mint condition for $1000.00. I can get today for sure.

 

John Bacon, today it was sitting an inch below the 2 drains at the back of the water well, but when anchored the water would come into the well and drain back again as it always has. The well might need to be resealed, great point.

 

limey, come on man! I don't date fat dollies, or marry them. At least not in the beginning, listen to me talk, Mr. Olympia 1979. If anyone rats to my wife that I said that I will come out of retirement and hunt you down like the dog that you are. She isn't the same woman I met 25 years ago, she's hotter now.

 

dave524, the boat is a 95'. I am thinking the 15HP is just too heavy. I will comment on that below.

 

Daveyboy. The auto bilge discharge is just below the gunnel, very high. I don't think that is a problem. I fished with a guy last year that had a rather small 17'er and he nearly sunk it the year before with a "back wave" that came over the transom, he installed a secon auto bilge and had the discharge hose running up and over the gunnel come to think of it now, he only had this problem when he put on a kicker!!!

 

DanD, that is my boat hull to a "T". Newer with different instrumentation dash, carpeting etc. and rounded windshield but that hull is identical including identical positioning of livewells and rod holders. My hull has less scratches. My water line sits exactly where that transom line sits, I see it's very close to that scum line like mine. And yes I see how it sits nose high. I may be noticing things I never noticed before after 7 years.I couldn't post a pic if my life depended on it. I have Photobucket account now at least, that's a start. I would be able to email it to someone and they might post it for me.

 

Davey Bouy, I'm thinking it is the weight and design of the shallow transom that just is exacerbating an existing design of bow high to start out with.

 

Brian, Big Bob sits at home, to big for me to haul his fat butt around and burn valuable fuel.

 

Art, the bilge discharge is high and dry. The live and bait well drains must have a check valve on them because they are so low now that I think about it, I can't confirm.

 

OK, game plan. I stopped at the Marine dealer, Proctors, in Simcoe on the way to Pt. Bruce. I talked to the mechanical guru John H. He knows the boat as it was sold new there and he has serviced it since new. When I showed him the water line and explained what is happening all he did was shake his head and say I don't like kickers on boats not designed for the extra weight. He is a man of little words. I don't know if his comment helps or not. I pried to get more but......all he really said after that is the previous owner never had a kicker he used the electric.

 

I will at this point level the boat, plug the transom drains and water test the water well and see if any water is going into the boat.

 

If not I will mark the water line with kicker on then remove the kicker and put the boat in the slip and monitor leakage and take an after pic and see where the water line is.

 

Leave the boat in the water and monitor the amount of water in the thing. I would really like to disconnect the bilge and really see how much of a leak there is over "X" days, but I'm not that brave. If it wasn't my boat, maybe.

 

Take it out in not ideal conditions and run her good and see if water is coming in more due to hull stress than just sitting docked.

 

Also check my insurance policy and see what I'm covered for.

 

Thanks you all. I will keep you updated. If there are anymore suggestions they are all welcome.

 

I may be looking for a problem that has existed since I have had the boat but has been made worse since adding the kicker.

 

If I find the kicker is just to heavy for the hull design I will do this. Sell the mint kicker for what is market value. Put that money towards a 100lb thrust Terova(sic) and use that to troll. I have not seen anyone longline troll with one on big water for Eyes (Erie) but that doesn't mean I can't. Or just go back to using the 115 like I have for years and buy some other toys I don't need. Maybe take my lady away for a nice weekend. 1000 ucks really isn;t much today unfortunately.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Old Ironmaker

[spincast]

Starcraft deep Vs do sit with the bow high in the water even without a kicker - just have a look at any Islander and you'll see what I mean.

I have a 175 Starfish with a 115 and a 20 (the 20 only weighs 9 lbs more than a 9.9 and I got a great deal) Both motors are 4 strokes. I have a max rating of a 150 for the boat.

When I first picked it up it sat too low in the stern for comfort.. I moved the trolling motor battery up to the bow storage compartment, moved all my gear to the front floor holds, and then lifted up the front casting deck floor, built a box between the ribs, put styro under and around it to protect the hull and ribs, lined the bottom and sides with plastic and filled it with 100 lbs of sand.

This brought the bow down so that my splash well clearance is much better. When I have folks in the boat they sit forward if necessary. Boat is rated for 6( if I remember correctly) adults. I have a personal max of 4, and am very particular about the days I will head out on the big lakes.

Edited June 26, 2015 by spincast

[Old Ironmaker]

Thanks so much Spincast so maybe I'm not seeing things. I have put the dead batteries back in but that didn't do anything visible. I thought it would equalize the weight. The 15 horse kicker weights 90 pounds and is the exact motor as the 9.9 with different carb to get the extra 5 lbs. according to the owners manual and the batteries weigh 65 each but no real change. I would hate to start adding more weight but may have to in order to keep the kicker on. That is if I don't find a leak around the water well. I will have time this weekend to play around with boat as they are calling for 90 PLUS KPH winds here on Erie, the Bass can wait until the typhoons are over.

[BillM]

90'lbs off the back isn't going to make a huge difference, you'll see that if/when you take it off.

[DanD]

I would be able to email it to someone and they might post it for me.

 

 

[email protected]

 

Dan.

[Lape0019]

Old Iron Maker,

 

I do not know much about your hull but depending on your preferred trolling speeds, I would imagine you could probably attain most of them with the electronic trolling motor.

 

I bought a Terrova with ipilot (*not link) a few years back and can troll from .5mph to 3.5mph. Now this is on a mod v boats that is 18.5 feet long but I would imagine you may be able to get close to the same.

 

It sounds like you already have wiring for a 24V system so I would suggest selling the kicker, replacing the battery and re installing you old TM or buy a newer one.

 

Like bill said, 90lbs on the transom probably wont make a huge difference but removing the 90lbs and adding some more weight (your trolling motor) to front, probably will.

[Old Ironmaker]

I didn't water test the transom well. There was a foot of water around the boat , and it was in the driveway not the lake. I can't find an old pic of her sitting in the water.

 

I am considering selling the kicker and putting that towards a new 100lb. thrust Terova( I can't spell it either, ha) with I Pilot of course. I fished with Dan Columby last year and his moved that massive glass Walleye/Musky boat of his in 2 foot waves so it should push mine no problem. Wouldn't that be da bomb. When I mentioned that plan to the lady that lets me sleep with her she said that was a fantastic plan. As soon as I put new flooring in our place, finish the dozen big and small jobs that have been on the go for about 15 years, build her a craft and sewing shed by the lake and a few other things that I don't want to remember because I'm stressing out, calmita, calmita.

[manitoubass2]

^^^^hahahahhaha

[Old Ironmaker]

You laughing at me you hipphopster you? Do I amuse you? No really, what's so funny, what so freekin' funny to you, do I look funny to you?

 

Joe Pechi to Ray Liotta 1990, Goodfellows.

[Lape0019]

Well,

 

if you do get there with the other half's permission, would you really want the added weight of a third deep cycle? Would it be up front with the TM and the other two batteries?

 

I ask because I have an 80 with Ipilot on my Bass Tracker PT190 and it will move the boat at 3MPH on the highest setting. Secondly, just know that the motor sticks out a fair bit (4-6 inches) compared to a cable steer. I bought a quick release bracket for mine so I could still get the cover on the boat.

[DRIFTER_016]

When I upgraded from a 2 stroke 90 to 115 4 stroke I had the same issues.

I ended up moving my 2 group 27 deep cycle TM batteries forward and solved my problem.

I repuropsed the forward live well for battery holding duty as it never gets used for anything.

[Old Ironmaker]

I did put back the 2 deep cycle batteries back into the bow wells and it didn't do much at all in, about 100 lbs at least. I have 2 live wells up front that I do use and don't want to loose them. I don't fill them with water I freeze large pop bottles and put the fish under the frozen bottles. Works better than water or loose cubes especially when water temps reach mid 70's.

 

I'm thinking about installing a section of Plexiglas maybe just 6" high across the top of the transom like the Walleye guys do for back trolling, maybe drill a few 1.5" holes to act as drains in case I get a rogue wave come up from behind if I'm dead in the water. I still don't like the drain holes in the transom being at or just below water level especially on Erie. Maybe I'm being paranoid when I don't need to be. But I have plucked guys out of the water during a storm twice in the last 10 years and heard of more. For sure I want to keep the kicker on. Many out here don't even troll with them they use them as a back up. I put the Motorguide back on it will still run but the controls don't work so straight ahead it will work. In 1/2 meter waves I could not troll above 2 miles per hour. 55lb thrust so that doesn't help me. I didn't know you need 3 deep calls on a Terova, they must be 36 volts, that's a lot of juice.

 

Maybe it will be easier to move to a different lake LOL.

 

I like the extending the height of the transom at the well 6". Easy to do and I have the Plexiglas. Any thoughts?

Edited July 1, 2015 by Old Ironmaker