What would you guys do? NF

[Beans]

No Hunting...Vegetarian...Fishing?...sounds like P3TA propaganda to me...

 

My wife stopped eating meat after taking a nutrition course but will eat dairy and fish...We also have a grandson that is a vegetarian so when they come for dinner we heat up some firm tofu with Shake and Bake for the both of them...

 

My wife makes a great hamburger stew with Yyeves ground round meat substitute that I enjoy also...

 

She is not against hunting or fishing just doesn't do it herself...

[fish_fishburn]

You might want to tell her that the human body cant exist and stay healthy on vegetables alone. She will be deficient in minerals, vitamins and e,f,a, (essential fatty acids). I have a friend whose father passed away at 62 yrs old and was a vegan since 32 yrs old. Died from clogged arteries. Ate no meat or dairy. His M.D. gave him this advice. Personally a M.D. is the last person I would ask for advice on nutrition. But what do I know I eat close to 2 doz eggs a week and use as much salt as required to make my food taste good. I don't drink milk or any carbonated soft drinks, no nitrates and have never had a prescription filled since I left home at 18. Im 54 now and don't need Viagra either. Seems to be working for me lol. I forgot to mention if I have to fry anything I use a big chunk of good old butter. No margarine for this guy, That stuff is pure poison. Just my 2 cents.

[ch312]

I would begin by finding out where she learned about this stuff in the first place as it's rather unfortunate that some people have no problem lying to children in hopes of spreading their beliefs. I would then find out what she thinks happens to animals from birth to slaughter and teach her that animals cannot be compared to humans and how different they are.

 

 

I noticed quite a few people saying she should just be left alone to do as she pleases. IMO you don't just ignore major decisions such as this without learning why the child came to the decision in the first place, especially when the child was raised in a household where hunting and fishing is normal. Clearly something or someone is influencing her enough to make her think what her dad does is wrong.

 

Dig deep and get answers. I think some people are forgetting that a 10 year old child can choose to be a vegetarian and dislike animal killers simply because Suzy said so. No logical reason, simply because someone she likes or can relate too said so.

Edited March 5, 2015 by ch312

[anders]

Pick you battles.....i would try to teach the difference between hunting and animals that have lived free and animals that end up in the grocery store?

 

You are definitly in a tough spot, but i think overall support is what she will probably need.....although us dad do need to stick together

[jimmer]

Maybe you can persuade her to change to a topic like freedom of choice and she can use her choice to not eat meat as one example, or maybe a bigger picture topic of respecting our planet earth and her contribution is not to eat meat. Maybe she can remove the word BAD from her speech because she sounds like a very smart girl that should understand other's points of view.

Shooting down her choice completely might send the wrong message.

[DRIFTER_016]

Mike

You might want to let her know that not all trophy hunting is bad.

For instance in Africa the tag fees are used for conservation and enforcement and without the "trophy hunters" it is very likely that rhino and elephants would disappear in short order.

When a trophy hunter goes to Africa to hunt elephant just the cost of the tags are in the range of $25,000.

 

Now those high fence hunts they do a lot of in the US.

Yeah, those suck.

[bare foot wader]

I would try to educate her on the concept of sustainable hunting, harvest vs growth rates, population management, and reasons to promote predator control...show her the other side of the fence, that anti hunters don't ever touch on....regardless of her hunting opinion, sounds like a smart girl, she might be outsmarting you soon enough!

[Acountdeleted]

In truest honesty though I think our fellow board members speak a lot of sense. My girlfriend refuses to eat anything factory farmed because of the poor living conditions but will gladly eat eithicly farmed animals or things that were hunted or fished. She feels they lived a happy life and 'we all have to die sometime' I can respect and support that.

 

Adding on to what others have said, perhaps talk to your daughter about the spring bear hunt or areas where they are overrun with deer and allow hunting to help control the population. Those are always my best debates when I talk to vegetarians on the subject.

 

Personally, when I die, I hope they throw me to the wolves or something like that. Nature has given so much to me, it's the least I can do in return rather then letting my 'meat' go to waste.

[AKRISONER]

the idea of population control hunts are only done because humans screwed up the system in the first place.

 

Eat what you hunt.

 

Polar Bear hunting is legal too, you are an A hole if you do it though.

Edited March 5, 2015 by AKRISONER

[akaShag]

I am sure that quite a number of Inuit hunters would be surprised to know that they have been branded an "A hole" for a traditional hunting activity. I am also fairly certain that the Inuit communities who benefit from "southern" hunters coming up for a polar bear hunt would also be nonplussed by this moniker..............

 

Hunters have enough enemies already from the anti-hunting types. We do not need fellow hunters pointing fingers at LEGAL hunting practices, just because they do not agree with them.

 

Just my opinion.............but one that I have come to believe in over close to fifty years of hunting...............

 

Doug

[solopaddler]

Thanks for everyone's input!

 

I've been on this board a long time and this is the first time I've ever been the creator of one of those stupidly long non fishing threads. The kind that gets 10x the number of views and responses than a fishing report that took you several days to create LOL!

 

I've always thought it's kind of funny that a thread like "what's your favourite bbq sauce" can get 100 times more responses than something you poured your heart and soul into.

 

Everyone has an opinion though and I have enjoyed reading them.

 

Cheers

[Ronzo]

I would actually consider her view to be incredibly compassionate, and you should be proud she holds such a view. Two hundred years from now it would not surprise me one bit if over 50% of the population was vegan/vegetarian, for a variety of reasons. Laugh if you want, but things like dairy allergies are on the rise.

 

My wife has been a vegan for several years. It doesn't cause a problem around our house. If I want to eat meat, I will eat the quality stuff, not the factory farmed garbage that you find in grocery stores.

 

I always say to my Dad, the milk and meat that you're getting these days isn't the same stuff you were getting back in the 60's and 70's. Making money is the endgame now.

[bigugli]

It may not be a "fishing thread", but the topic does hit close to home. No real difference tween harvesting animals or fish. Glad to read the daughter amended her topic somewhat.

We all love the outdoors one way or another, despite everyone's differing lines in the sand. Like they say, sand moves.

[bare foot wader]

the idea of population control hunts are only done because humans screwed up the system in the first place.

 

Eat what you hunt.

 

Polar Bear hunting is legal too, you are an A hole if you do it though.

 

typical ignorant statement...

 

what do you think anti's think of fishing? and catch and release fishing and mortality rates? do you think every single fish you've released has survived? if you're not keeping your catch and stopping when you hit your limit, why bother fishing, purely for the entertainment of the fight?

[AKRISONER]

 

typical ignorant statement...

 

what do you think anti's think of fishing? and catch and release fishing and mortality rates? do you think every single fish you've released has survived? if you're not keeping your catch and stopping when you hit your limit, why bother fishing, purely for the entertainment of the fight?

 

are you stating that you are one of them?

 

That only fishes to eat...ugh

 

also yes...if you hunt nearly endangered animals for sport you are an A hole. I said it.

 

Theres plenty of other things to do with your time besides trying to validate your manhood by shooting threatened and endangered animals.

Edited March 5, 2015 by AKRISONER

[akaShag]

Generally speaking, the first rule of thumb when you find yourself in a deep hole is to quit digging.

 

So AKRISONER, how very good of you to label LEGAL hunters as "A hole" types.

 

And how very kind of you to show your immense superiority over persons who eat fish, which last time I looked was not only LEGAL but one of the primary reasons MILLIONS of people fish.

 

Maybe the person wanting to validate his manhood is the person putting down other outdoors folks whose views are not congruent with yours. Pretty much penis-waving from the looks of it.

[lew]

It's always unfortunate when a very interesting discussion goes completely off track and takes a nosedive into the mud.

[Acountdeleted]

Let's try to get this back on track.

 

I always say that if humans were the only species to eat meat, I would agree we are in the wrong. But many many species on this planet do it.

 

I have heard the arguement that we need to be better because we have conscious of animals suffering. That is why it is important to not torture or further harm what you eat or kill.

 

I feel as though eating and killing a few animals and fish will not bring this world to it's end, it's been happening for years. Spilling oil and dropping bombs is what will.

[AKRISONER]

ill point out that I fish, and hunt and eat as well. Thats not my point...there is a large difference between hunting/fishing and eating (i eat pickerel, pike and venison all the time) vs shooting an endangered or threatened animal whos population is on the decline simply because you want to feel good about yourself. Its immoral. Many things are "legal" does that make it right?

 

Dont try to play the "native spiritual rights" Bull either. Letting white men pay to take their resources has a long history with the natives.

 

Put me on blast all you want, if you are of the group that says that going and shooting a polar bear or rhino is a good idea we wouldnt get along in person anyways aha.

 

I think my point in all of this is that the original author's daughter has an opinion that many people share. I cant believe a 10 year old is carrying such a strong point of view, clearly someone has probably shown her an online vegan propaganda video, or maybe just like many other people, they get grossed out when they see what it actually takes to kill an animal for harvest.

 

Vegans can keep eating moss, more steaks for me.

[bare foot wader]

if thing stay well mannered, perhaps there's some ideas that could be used in the girls speech

 

 

 

are you stating that you are one of them?

 

That only fishes to eat...ugh

 

also yes...if you hunt nearly endangered animals for sport you are an A hole. I said it.

 

Theres plenty of other things to do with your time besides trying to validate your manhood by shooting threatened and endangered animals.

 

I'm not one of them, I mostly c&r but I do keep a fish if I don't think it'll survive, even if my intentions weren't to bring any home that day (I think a lot of bass anglers should reconsider their handling techniques too)

 

I shoot coyotes and wolves any chance I get, and I don't eat them, I do skin them (my coyote hunting skills are far superior to my wolf skills lol)

 

you said "eat what you hunt"...I'm asking you if you eat what you fish, because all the fish you release do not survive...so why do you fish for them? you're killing fish purely for the personal enjoyment of the fight...that is the mindset anti's have, if you think anti's don't have an agenda with fishing the same as hunting, you're wrong....anglers pointing fingers at hunters (trophy or meat hunters) is pretty pathetic IMO

 

the thing many don't consider is sustainability of the harvest, and the dollars that hunting puts back to conservation...how much money and effort has groups like P3TA invested in actually protecting wild spaces? rehabilitation work? they are narrow mindedly focused only on the killing aspect...do they protect marshlands like DU does? do they do streamside work in rivers?

 

well managed trophy hunting, including hunts for threatened species, puts dollars back into conservation

 

read this article, do you see the Humane Society offering to donate 350K to help fund conservancy programs?

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/16/us/black-rhino-hunting-permit/

[DRIFTER_016]

I always say that if humans were the only species to eat meat, I would agree we are in the wrong. But many many species on this planet do it.

 

 

 

​And it's not only the carnivores that are the meat eaters.

Even those cute critters that eat soy and alfalfa and corn like a little extra protein in their diet.

 

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/news/press/ontape.htm

 

 

 

Biologists taking advantage of the latest advances in surveillance technology are recording big game animals doing some pretty wild things these days, like elk eating sage grouse eggs and white-tailed deer preying on songbird nestlings.

So what's going on in the wilds of North America? Has El Nino driven our cervids mad?

No, say biologists, these things have probably been going on a long time. Only now, with technology such as miniature video cameras allowing biologists to monitor nests, have they been able to discover and document such behavior.

"You come up with stuff that just surprises you because nobody's documented it before," says Wyoming Game and Fish chief biologist Reg Rothwell.

While probably not common, biologists say, the predaceous behavior of deer and elk is probably not that unusual, either. The animals are simply taking advantage of a quick, easy, nutritious meal.

"You think of these animals as grazers or browsers," says Rothwell, "but they occasionally eat some pretty weird stuff." Last year, for instance, a Game and Fish researcher's remote camera captured an elk eating eggs from a sage grouse nest.

"Some of these animals really are omnivorous," says Pam Pietz, a wildlife biologist at the USGS Northern Prairie Wildlife Research Center in North Dakota. Pietz likely has the first-ever photo documentation of a deer predating a bird nest. "If they come across a nest, where the food doesn't move or run away, they'll take advantage of it."

Using miniature video cameras to document the fate of grassland songbird nests, Pietz has recorded nest predations by white-tailed deer, Franklin's ground squirrels and mice in addition to the more well-known nest predators like foxes and weasels.

In two years of 24-hour-a-day nest monitoring, Pietz has documented nest depredations in 29 nests. White-tailed deer hit two nests and field mice hit three. The most common nest predators, Franklin's and thirteen-lined ground squirrels, preyed on a combined total of 13 nests. She only documented one nest being predated by a red fox, one by a weasel and two by a badger (another nest predator could only be identified as either a fox or coyote).

Biologists have known ground squirrels and deer mice can be serious nest predators, but Pietz's research may have added another rodent species to the list: jumping mice. A video of a possible jumping mouse is currently being analyzed to confirm its identity.

"Nobody's ever implicated them as possible predators of nests. They may be another group of mice that's important as a nest predator that hasn't been recognized as such."

No one has documented white-tailed deer preying on nests before either, she says. A few years ago, Canadian bird researchers capturing songbirds in mist nets reported deer eating songbirds right out of the nets. Although they also suspected the deer as nest predators, they could not confirm it.

But Pietz now has proof they are, at least in North Dakota. The deer her cameras recorded found the nests when they were grazing at night. They may have been attracted to the adult bird flushing as the deer approached. In both cases, the nests contained nestlings. But Pietz is confident that if a deer found a nest containing eggs, it would eat them too. "They don't have to be stealthy predators to take eggs out of a nest," she points out.

When she first recorded a deer eating nestlings, she wondered if they would eat eggs, too. She incorporated the help of a captive deer at the research center to find out. "We presented it with a few quail eggs -- just to see what it would do -- and it munched them right up."

It's not too surprising that a variety of animals would be interested in nest contents, says Rothwell. "There's certainly some nutritional value."

Indeed, by necessity bird eggs are one of nature's most complete nutritional packages. Unlike fish and amphibian eggs, birds and reptiles hatch when they are nearly fully developed (as opposed to hatching into a larval form, like a tadpole).

But since bird and reptile embryos develop outside the body of a female (unlike most mammals), their eggs must provide them with all the nutrients necessary to fully develop.

To meet the demand of a growing embryo, eggs provide high quality protein (containing all the amino acids), as well as fats, lots of vitamins including A, D, and E, and scores of minerals like calcium and zinc.

And nestlings are a good source of protein, fats and other nutrients.

So how big a deal is this ungulate nest predation? Should we blame low numbers of sage grouse or dropping numbers of grassland songbirds on elk or deer?

Rothwell says that these predations probably occur only occasionally and are nothing to worry about. "It's not a huge problem, and it's probably been going on for eons."

To find out more about the Pietz study, visit (http://biology.usgs.gov/news/98-011.htm) on the Internet.

[bigugli]

Oh no! Bambi is no longer the cute and cuddly creature we've been led to believe!!!!! What do we tell the children?????????.

[Old Ironmaker]

When someone tries to tell me I should seriously consider being a vegan or vegetarian I tell them "if God didn't want me to eat meat He wouldn't have given me incisors. Please pass me that veal shank."

 

I never get vegan and vegetarian straight. One eats zero that has eyes, the other only eats less intelligent animals, fish or birds. A chicken but not an Eagle, a perch but not a Shark?

[akaShag]

back to Old Ironmaker................

 

My favourite: "My ancestors did not evolve for thousands of years to be at the top of the food chain for me to eat tofu."

 

Doug

[DRIFTER_016]

Oh no! Bambi is no longer the cute and cuddly creature we've been led to believe!!!!! What do we tell the children?????????.