young_one Posted April 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Were you swamped from the side, or the transom? S. first wave came from port side. over the back gunwale/side (off the port quarter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickingfrog Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Dealing with insurance companies is a real pain, but a necessary one. As much as I hate to involve lawyers in general, going against an insurance company without one is like going into the ring against Mike Tyson with your hands tied behind your back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenboater Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) there were additional aftermarket welding done to the transom joints. I fear this will be the out Tracker needs to get off, of course, I know nothing of the circumstances and whether or not this was a warranty killer. how deep is the water where your boat went down ? seems like it *should* be a simple matter to raise the boat. hope things work out. fwiw, if an island with a safe leeward side was in sight, I'd probably take my chances pounding the hull making for that and waiting it out. Edited April 17, 2014 by woodenboater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeontroller Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Glad everyone is safe. Just one more reason not to buy that brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushart Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 I was tryin to talk my cuz into buyin one----not anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 until the boat is recovered, it will be hard to designate blame, people need to see the condition of the floatation foam, ...was it there was it enough did a chemical get on it and dissolve it....was it wrong from the factory or was it something you did these need to be answered first when they recover it make sure you take control of the boat and decide where it is stored, then you get someone to go over it taking pictures. I don't trust anyone once it out of your hands to tell the truth I was there with Lloyd that weekend and were real concerned when we heard...I really hope you make out OK with this, but I see a law suit in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 i'll wager a guess you were in water deeper than 80'. no insurance company will pay to bring that boat up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hirk Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Just a guess but I think your foam may have been water logged, as long as it was built to pre-approved specs it met the required govt. floatation and therefore unless it was built off spec. which could effect its floatation the responsibility may fall with the owner,lack of proper up keep would be the focus I would guess.Most people dont realize it but pretty much every make of aluminum boat and many glass boats do not have sealed floatation and over time the foam becomes water logged and the boat gains 100's of pounds and won't meet floatation safety standards.The type of expandable foam used should never be exposed to water yet due to crappy designs it gets wet on most boats often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxie Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Some nasty seas that day. We were there as well and stood by until we heard all of you had been rescued. As has been mentioned without the hull as evidence there is no way to determine hull failure . Glad you and your crew made home that day and wish you the best of luck going forward. If you ever want to fill a seat pm me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crappieperchhunter Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) Please bear with me. My son was as tough as nails in sports. But I always tried to make him look towards sportsmanship and integrity. Having said that I always told him walk away from a fight if you can. But if you can not...throw off your gloves and keep swinging until the refs pulls you apart. You appear to be at that crossroads. I can not or can any one else make your decision for you. But here is my advice. Walk away. If you win you will be bitter but defiant because you have won. If you lose you will just be bitter. The amount of money you are fighting over is simply not worth it. I see the smiling faces in the 1st picture you posted and realize everything that really matters is still intact. You have my advice. Best of luck with whatever path you choose. Edited April 18, 2014 by crappieperchhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spincast Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 you can't help but wonder if one of the welds let go under the waterline in the rough seas? From a principle perspective, I would pursue it - because this is not just about your incident, as scary and costly as it was. The next time this happens, the outcome maybe different - maybe it already has been with that sad situation with the 4 boaters on Erie. Unfortunately, I don't think you will end up further ahead financially one way or another, as your lawyer will not be cheap. The best outcome would be an out court, pre trial settlement offer. Best of luck, no matter what course you choose to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumma Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 When you said they replaced the boat and did some other welding it seems curious because if you weld near the foam it either has to be removed so it does not burn or if left in place as it is heated it loses its ability to float. I was not there and I am glad other were to save you but if you pressed the boat past it's capacity why is it someones elses responsibility to replace it? I get that you had insurance and that in my opinion they should pay the market value of the boat but why do you feel tracker which builds the boat and turned a completed and inspected boat over to you needs to be sued? I guess I am relating it to a man buys a motorcycle and races it down a short street at 100 miles an hour and can't stop in time and hits a tree breaking his leg. He then sues the motorcycle maker because they made a bike that has better acceleration than brakes. He exceeded the design of what the bike was intended for by going 100 mph and it was up to him to make sure the equipment on the bike would do what he needed it to do decelerate in the conditions he set up. This is a tough call I think that you are going to spend money in an attempt to recover money that can be possible not there fault. You could be stuck with the loss of the boat and gear as well as the thousands of dollars in legal fees that you can be sure a lawyer will collect. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) Just a guess but I think your foam may have been water logged, as long as it was built to pre-approved specs it met the required govt. floatation and therefore unless it was built off spec. which could effect its floatation the responsibility may fall with the owner,lack of proper up keep would be the focus I would guess.Most people dont realize it but pretty much every make of aluminum boat and many glass boats do not have sealed floatation and over time the foam becomes water logged and the boat gains 100's of pounds and won't meet floatation safety standards.The type of expandable foam used should never be exposed to water yet due to crappy designs it gets wet on most boats often. I remember a small pierce of foam drifting to the back of my boat when I was bailing it out... the piece of foam sank to the bottom of the water filled bilge. It was not long after that that the boat sank after some heavy rain. I am not sure why anything that "should never be exposed to water" would be used in the manufacture of a boat; but I can confirm that the foam does get water logged. My older boat was a 1994. I have been told that the newer boats use better foam. Fortunately, I haven't had to test that theory yet. I am not sure why DOT, the U.S. Coast Guard, engineers, etc. cannot figure out that the foam used to provide flotation for a boat that has been swamped needs to be able to still work when it's wet. You don't need a degree to figure that out. The boat should not have sank to the bottom; but winning a law suit may prove difficult. There are a lot of questions. Who performed the after market welds and how did they impact the flotation and hull integrity? The flotation is designed to keep a boat that has not been overloaded from sinking. How can you prove that the boat was not overloaded; or that the after market welds did not cause the problem when the boat is at the bottom of the bay? I would take the insurance money and buy a different brand of boat. With the aftermarket welds; this one may not be Trackers fault. But still, there have been too many stories about Trackers... Edited April 18, 2014 by JohnBacon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookinforwalleye Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Apples and oranges Art and we are making some assumptions here and there are a lot of unanswered questions and a lot of these questions need to be looked before any decision is made. I would think the boat needs to be recovered before any decision is made, why did the boat sink??? Regardless if the boat was mis-handled in the conditions is really irrelevant if the boat was built to standards it should have stayed partially afloat the fact that it didn`t is the big question here. Was the boat defective, was the boat overloaded,was there enough floatation( obviously not or it would not have sunk)...the owner said it was a new hull with some additional welding done as I asked previously why in the world would a new hull need additional welding? Perhaps to address a weakness in the transom who knows. Bottom line is the owner bought a product that was deemed save by the manufacturer and approved by the governing body, both of these parties should be very interested in trying to find out why this hull sunk and I am assuming that Tracker approved the additional welding on the transom because they know the transom is/was faulty I believe they did do a re-design on the transom because there were a lot of issues. Given what I have read about Tracker products Tracker Marine is probably in no hurry to see this hull recovered!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mills Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Thanks for posting, a good lesson there for all of us. Glad you survived. You are probably not the only Tracker owner to have this happen. I would also post on a few other boards like Walleye Central. Perhaps you can find other Tracker owners who have had taken Tracker to court or had similar insurance claims. There was also an old OFC thread or 2 about a member who had hull problems and battled Tracker. Maybe he could offer some insight dealing with Tracker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whopper Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 The Lake Erie incident was and entirely different boat model. Longer fiberglass boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) Will.. record all your phone calls with the insurance company. Tell them you are expecting a full claim cheque for hull and losses to the full value (why I have agreed value!) of your insurance and that you expected it a LONG time ago. If they wish to retrieve the boat and then go after Tracker then that is their issue.. not yours. If you had hull coverage on the boat, then no matter the deal they have to pay out. I can't see them wanting to spend the money to have divers find the boat.. retrieve it and get caught up in any environmental fines they might end up with this far after the fact for not retrieving it earlier! Edited April 18, 2014 by irishfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 http://www.consumeraffairs.com/boats/tracker.html http://forums.iboats.com/tracker-boats/tracker-welds-363882.html http://www.bassboatcentral.com/trackerlikes_dislikes.htm https://www.google.com/search?q=problems+with+Tracker+boats&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracokaos Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Will.. record all your phone calls with the insurance company. Tell them you are expecting a full claim cheque for hull and losses to the full value (why I have agreed value!) of your insurance and that you expected it a LONG time ago. If they wish to retrieve the boat and then go after Tracker then that is their issue.. not yours. If you had hull coverage on the boat, then no matter the deal they have to pay out. I can't see them wanting to spend the money to have divers find the boat.. retrieve it and get caught up in any environmental fines they might end up with this far after the fact for not retrieving it earlier! Totally agree, you purchased a boat in good faith from a dealer. That boat was most certainly coast guard certified. You purchased insurance for your boat and supplied any and all documentation that they requested, AND they agreed to insure your boat. If there was a problem with the boat that caused it to sink it was a pre-existing issue that you were not aware of. you cannot be held responsible for a pre-existing issue that you were not aware of. How many car recalls are there that have been brought on by accidents? Insurance covers the accidents, but if the auto company is at fault then the insurance goes after them for the money. Stick to your guns, like mentioned earlier, hire a lawyer and demand that your insurance company keep their end of the contract you signed with them Good luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenboater Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 I'd be seriously looking into salvage fees into raising your boat at this point. If it turns out there was a boat issue, then you may very well recover the cost as well as have peace of mind. I'm not in insurance but it sounds like it's 'he said-she said' situation, at least until someone can survey the boat's structural soundness. I also guess asking very pointed questions will be needed when you get insurance on your next boat. Good luck and make sure you have a lot of 8's in your reg number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonboy Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Just glad to here you all made it out safely, that's what is most important in all of this and everything else is all petty. Not sure I understood but if you can get back from the insurance co at least 3/4 of the value I would let it go, if not it's going to be a long battle, not sure you mentioned what depth it's in but you need to retrieve the boat to see what weld broke, when the boat was rewelded was any foam removed for the welding,we're any environment charges laid? Keep us posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
young_one Posted April 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 The Lake Erie incident was and entirely different boat model. Longer fiberglass boat. It's also a Tracker Tundra, 2 feet longer and same aluminum hull. My deepest condolences, RIP. Quote from Walleye Central "Here's the last video Bryan had sent from the water, to his partner, before this happened, it's posted on their "Black Swamp Ohio Outdoors" Facebook page (you can see what all four are wearing).... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater" - Juls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pguzik Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Coast Guard uses Ranger Boats as the INDUSTRY STANDARD for FoamFlotation Safety Requirements Noticed your Tacker Tundra was Fiberglass and I came across this video a while back Good Luck with everything!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hirk Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Coast Guard uses Ranger Boats as the INDUSTRY STANDARD for FoamFlotation Safety Requirements No they don't, they use a formula based on hull dimensions and ALL boats sold must meet the criteria to be Coast Guard approved.This is an old marketing trick Ranger used in the 80's, the boat is less likely to sink with the cut outs than if it was just filled with water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 If the boat sank to the bottom, they may be able to retrieve it, but as Steve said earlier in the thread, unlikely. How deep were you when it went down Will? Also, they don't always sink to the bottom, sometimes they have enough buoyancy to suspend somewhere in the water colum. If that's the case, the current in Adolphus could well have it somewhere in Lake O by now! Just really glad that your here to have this conversation Will! HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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