Questions for people who live in rural areas NF

[danbouck]

Hey guys,

 

I'm currently looking to get out of the city and get a nice country home. I'm looking for pros and cons on a few items. Maintenance requirements and so on. I have researched quite a bit but always like to ask on here as well.

 

First: A drilled well vs sand point vs cistern.

 

Second: Propane Heating vs oil vs wood

 

Any advice or opinions will be greatly appreciated.

 

Dan

 

 

[chessy]

talk to the health unit in the area you wish to buy in about the well, i have a dug well where i live and wanted to upgrade to bored well, the health unit said my dug well is good for my area as it is mostly clay and it is a good filter , i was on wood till i hurt my back then switch to natural gas some country areas have it . wood/oil is the way to go

[ecmilley]

the only thing with well/lake cistern water is your responsible for the safety and security of the water system, i have had non-stop freezing issues with mine due to a shallow line that i hope is fixed now, when searching for a home with a well really look at the quality and more importantly the recovery rate of the well.

heating hands down wood is the most econmical way to go though there most work, oil has better btu than propane or natural gas again the tssa is a pia with constantly changing regs on oil storage though also check your insurance company for it's demands on the tank.

i heat with electric and wood pellets and have a small back up genny that'll run the fridge and stove when the power is down

[jimmer]

I moved to a rural area about 26 years ago and sure didn't have your questions on my mind. I was just wanting to get out of the city!

Number one would be water. Make sure there is a good well and proof of how much water it produces every minute. I live on the water, have a 28 foot drilled well and have never had a problem. That can't be said for the people across the street from me or across the lake. It's just nice to know that I will always have the water. I would think drilled wells are the best if you are starting from scratch.

Heating our place with baseboards and wood right now. That's the legal term anyways. You definitely have to check with the insurance company to see if they will cover a wood stove. The wood stoves are a lot of work, very dusty and dirty and inconsistent heat. However, great when the power goes out. Man they are tough on the back. Natural gas or propane would be the best option. I think oil is over regulated. I am working on getting my wife to go for a furnace, so we can get away from the daily woodstove. Will always want it for backup though.

[bigugli]

I spent a long time in a house heated with wood and hydro backup. Never regretted it.

As for wells, check into details carefully. Many areas on Erie's north shore have non-potable water. The clay flats holding oil and gas are also famous for high sulphur levels in the soil and ground water. Becomes far cheaper to truck water in.

[HTHM]

Cistern is the safest, IMHO. Heating, wood backup is nice, but a lot of work.

As to living in the "country, I would not have it any other way right now.

[lookinforwalleye]

Not sure how big of a place or style but take a look at the new mini splits, they cool in the summer and they act as a air source heat pump in the winter.

[whiskywizard]

Long driveways can be a special kind of fun. In summer you need to maintain it and in winter you need to clear it. Hiring a local farmer is cheaper than owning your own tractor and blower, but he'll always clear his own place before yours. If getting to work is important, you need to plan accordingly and gear up.

 

Back-up power is more important than in the city. I'm on a section of line that only has 16 customers. If we lose power along with other areas, it can be a while before power is restored to my area. You also need a bigger gennie than town homes do because your well pump will be 240V. I'm seriously considering a whole-home generator, because primary heat is air-source heat pump with propane fireplace backup.

 

Grass cutting can be a big enough chore that you'll need a serious mower. Plan/budget for that if it applies. You don't want lawn cutting to get in the way of fishing!

 

My insurance company really hates wood burning appliances! They make it a pain to own one, so no wood stoves for me.

 

 

.

Edited February 7, 2013 by whiskywizard

[whiskywizard]

Cistern is the safest, IMHO. Heating, wood backup is nice, but a lot of work.

As to living in the "country, I would not have it any other way right now.

To me, a cistern was a reservoir for rain water, collected from the roof. Am I using the term differently than you?

 

A cistern can often run dry and if it's your source for drinking water, it requires pre-filtration and UV treatment.

[TJQ]

First: A drilled well vs sand point vs cistern.

 

Drilled well... but make sure you know what the quality and quantiry of the water is!! Its probably the most important thing about the place....

 

Second: Propane Heating vs oil vs wood

 

LOL.. IM still working on this one ,,, but heating can changed - water is more difficult....

[lew]

Back-up power is more important than in the city.

 

I had a permanent, stand-by generator installed last year incase of extended power outages. It automatically cuts in 10 seconds after the power goes out and runs until it's restored then shuts itself off. It's nice to know the well pump, sump, furnace and all other important things will continue working when needed.

 

I originally had a 6500/7200 watt portable that plugged into the house and it worked well 2 years ago when the power was out for 50 hours, but it's good to know now everything will be OK if we're not home to start it up.

 

The new one runs off a 1500 litre propane tank so I also don't need to worry about gasoline not being available incase the gas stations don't have power either.

 

I think it's a very good investment for anyone who depends on wells and sumps.

[danbouck]

talk to the health unit in the area you wish to buy in about the well, i have a dug well where i live and wanted to upgrade to bored well, the health unit said my dug well is good for my area as it is mostly clay and it is a good filter , i was on wood till i hurt my back then switch to natural gas some country areas have it . wood/oil is the way to go

 

I will definitely contact them. Thanks for the info.

 

the only thing with well/lake cistern water is your responsible for the safety and security of the water system, i have had non-stop freezing issues with mine due to a shallow line that i hope is fixed now, when searching for a home with a well really look at the quality and more importantly the recovery rate of the well.

heating hands down wood is the most econmical way to go though there most work, oil has better btu than propane or natural gas again the tssa is a pia with constantly changing regs on oil storage though also check your insurance company for it's demands on the tank.

i heat with electric and wood pellets and have a small back up genny that'll run the fridge and stove when the power is down

 

Awesome info, thanks.

 

I moved to a rural area about 26 years ago and sure didn't have your questions on my mind. I was just wanting to get out of the city!

Number one would be water. Make sure there is a good well and proof of how much water it produces every minute. I live on the water, have a 28 foot drilled well and have never had a problem. That can't be said for the people across the street from me or across the lake. It's just nice to know that I will always have the water. I would think drilled wells are the best if you are starting from scratch.

Heating our place with baseboards and wood right now. That's the legal term anyways. You definitely have to check with the insurance company to see if they will cover a wood stove. The wood stoves are a lot of work, very dusty and dirty and inconsistent heat. However, great when the power goes out. Man they are tough on the back. Natural gas or propane would be the best option. I think oil is over regulated. I am working on getting my wife to go for a furnace, so we can get away from the daily woodstove. Will always want it for backup though.

 

 

I spent a long time in a house heated with wood and hydro backup. Never regretted it.

As for wells, check into details carefully. Many areas on Erie's north shore have non-potable water. The clay flats holding oil and gas are also famous for high sulphur levels in the soil and ground water. Becomes far cheaper to truck water in.

 

I would love a wood stove but the insurance will decide that for me.

 

Cistern is the safest, IMHO. Heating, wood backup is nice, but a lot of work.

As to living in the "country, I would not have it any other way right now.

 

Why is a Cistern the safest? BTW call coming soon.

 

Not sure how big of a place or style but take a look at the new mini splits, they cool in the summer and they act as a air source heat pump in the winter.

 

I am looking at older homes between 1500 and 3000 sq ft

 

Long driveways can be a special kind of fun. In summer you need to maintain it and in winter you need to clear it. Hiring a local farmer is cheaper than owning your own tractor and blower, but he'll always clear his own place before yours. If getting to work is important, you need to plan accordingly and gear up.

 

Back-up power is more important than in the city. I'm on a section of line that only has 16 customers. If we lose power along with other areas, it can be a while before power is restored to my area. You also need a bigger gennie than town homes do because your well pump will be 240V. I'm seriously considering a whole-home generator, because primary heat is air-source heat pump with propane fireplace backup.

 

Grass cutting can be a big enough chore that you'll need a serious mower. Plan/budget for that if it applies. You don't want lawn cutting to get in the way of fishing!

 

My insurance company really hates wood burning appliances! They make it a pain to own one, so no wood stoves for me.

 

 

.

 

I don't mind the work whatsoever. I also have 2 13000W gennies so that should handle most of my needs.

 

To me, a cistern was a reservoir for rain water, collected from the roof. Am I using the term differently than you?

 

A cistern can often run dry and if it's your source for drinking water, it requires pre-filtration and UV treatment.

 

 

First: A drilled well vs sand point vs cistern.

 

Drilled well... but make sure you know what the quality and quantiry of the water is!! Its probably the most important thing about the place....

 

Second: Propane Heating vs oil vs wood

 

LOL.. IM still working on this one ,,, but heating can changed - water is more difficult....

 

Thankyou

 

I had a permanent, stand-by generator installed last year incase of extended power outages. It automatically cuts in 10 seconds after the power goes out and runs until it's restored then shuts itself off. It's nice to know the well pump, sump, furnace and all other important things will continue working when needed.

 

I originally had a 6500/7200 watt portable that plugged into the house and it worked well 2 years ago when the power was out for 50 hours, but it's good to know now everything will be OK if we're not home to start it up.

 

The new one runs off a 1500 litre propane tank so I also don't need to worry about gasoline not being available incase the gas stations don't have power either.

 

I think it's a very good investment for anyone who depends on wells and sumps.

 

That sounds like a great system.

 

 

Thanks for all the great info guys, keep it comin!

Edited February 7, 2013 by Dan Bouck

[John]

Dan, we have considered this many times...maybe we should start a commune? Whaddya thaink?

[mr blizzard]

Before moving here we had looked to move to northern ontario from Barrie, I'm with TJ I felt more comfortable with a drilled well. Some drillers will charge by the foot OR will give u the option to pay a set amount until they find water, ask around and get a feel the water table depth.

[lew]

And when you move to the country Dan, you no longer have to worry about all the cars, buses and tractor trailers going down your street anymore.

 

You just need to watch out that you don't get run over by all the critters walking down the center of the road

 

 

 

 

And the scenery is pretty nice too

 

 

[zamboniwaterboy]

HEAT

http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp

 

http://www.heatmasterss.com/

 

Water, cisterns are good for toilets and laundry, bacteria can build up. Wells learn how to chlorinate them properly, and learn the recovery rate and how much flow the system can accomodate.

 

Septic - DO NOT DRIVE OVER IT! Be careful what you put down it, no feminine hygiene products, no grease, no chemicals. Does not hurt to use Septal -http://www.septal.com/, some areas you have to get it pumped every 2 years mine seems to be 10, and my moms is 20. It does not hurt to have someone that knows what they are doing pressure wash the lines, PROS ONLY!

[HTHM]

Cistern is the safest IMHO because the water can be trucked in city water, rather than well water that may change from time to time. Unless you have a high replenish rate well and a reverse osmosis purification system then a well can be better than a cistern.

[woodenboater]

fwiw, many homes in Australia have sisterns. My late father in law lived in the boonies and he had a cistern that was topped up with rain water or more often, with a water delivery truck. Presume it was treated and we never had any health issues related to the cistern. Definitely agree with Lew's propane power backup gen.

[Blue Lk]

Imho the biggest issue in rural living is water,I moved out of town 25+ yrs ago,3 different properties,2 with lake water supplies & 1 drilled well.

The lake properties have potable water,the well is not,OK for cooking ,not drinking, so we use bottled water when there for drinking,making coffee etc.

Make sure the water system can handle the local winter weather conditions,ie buried deep enough or heated.

If buying an older home,make sure the seller has a record from the original install of the septic system.You have to make sure it was done to properly & have the needed permits etc.

I would look for a home in an unorganized area if there are any in your area,Much lower taxes & you can do some work on the place without permits or building inspectors looking over your shoulder.

I heat with a pellet stove,but have a forced air electric furnace as back-up

Good luck in your property hunt,I will never live in a city or town again if I can help it.

[SirCranksalot]

We have a gas furnace but had a woodstove installed shortly after we bought. We both enjoy the wood fire so economics was not the overriding factor. I'm retired so I don't mind the time req'd to work with the wood. If I was working I probably would not have it.

The extra ins cost was quite low IIRC.

Wood will cost varying amounts of money and time---If you have the time you can probably scrounge a fair amount e.g. new building lots if some housing is going in somewhere nearby, tree service contractors sometimes give away wood.

 

My bro had had a wood/oil furnace for years and it seems to work well for him.

[NAW]

You won't regret moving in to the country Dan!

 

I made the move in to the bush last year, and haven't looked back.

 

Your questions are all valid, and I had the same ones when purchasing my place.

 

Are you looking to build, or buy an existing house?

 

I looked at lots of houses. And Lots of different methods of heat, and water.

 

The end result of my searching was not exactly what I wanted. But worth the deviation.

 

There's lots of different situations out there, when one method might work better then another. And vis-versa.

 

I've got a 30' drilled well. There is no gas, or high speed internet. I heat with Oil. But have started looking in to other options. The house is about 2500 sq-ft, and my oil bill is $400 a month Jan, and Feb. The only appliance on oil is my furnace.

 

It can take some getting used to the extra bills. Fuel for the cars has doubled. Internet over a bell turbo hub. It's slow at times, and expensive compared to high speed.

 

The bad stuff aside. Everyday driving home feels like I'm going to my cottage. Thousands of acres of forest to play in!

 

And great neighbours close by, but not to close...

 

Morning traffic is usually not an issue.

 

I've seen coyotes, deer, bear, bald eagles, and lots of other cool things on my drives home. Beats the view from my previous short commute thru Barrie's lovely Tiffen st area!

[Sinker]

Stay away from anything with a sand point. That usually means the well is shallow, in sand, and could dry up.

 

Even a drilled well can be trouble.

 

With that said, Any quality of water can be treated. Its worth taking a sample into a lab to have it analyzed for quality, and definitly contact the health dept for info on water quality in the area your looking. I would be more concerned with the treatment side of the water, and the quantity. Some conservation authorities will come and do a draw down of your well to. See the recovery rate, for free. Its worth asking.

 

Once you have water, the next thing to research is the septic system. Ask for pumping records too.

 

I've lived rural my whole life. I consider peterborough going to the city, and I only go there if I have to. I have 2 stop signs on my way to work, and 3 on the way home. You will put miles on your vehicles, but most of them will be highway miles. No stop and go. Your kids will be away from the city rif raf too. I'd live in a tent in a woodlot before I moved into "town".

 

Once you go rural, you will never go back!!

 

S.

[wallyboss]

If the septic system is iffy!!! be careful cause a new septic system with all the required permits is propably close to $30,000.00.

 

I used to be on a well and I was sure glad that they brought in city water. I never trusted the well water. unless I got teh water analyze every 2nd week. So for human consumption I always used bottled water. Most wells you will need some kind of water treatment system.

 

As for heat I love my woodstove but it is a lot of work.

Edited February 8, 2013 by wallyboss

[NBR]

We moved to a country setting more then 40 year ago. Now in our third country place and we would only live rural. Our first place was about 1/2 mile from the nearest neighbor now only about 1/4 mile from the nearest full year neighbor. It took us over twice as long to meet the neighbors in town than in the country. Country neighbors are much quicker to offer help for any projects. This is out third country place. We heat with wood with an oil back up. Strictly a cost issue.

 

We have a very efficient setup for our wood stove. My wife and I (both over 70) were concerned about stacking and hauling the wood but we stack a full 4'x4'x8' cord of wood in two hours. We live in NH so we know about winter

[SirCranksalot]

I used to be on a well and I was sure glad that they brought in city water. I never trusted the well water. unless I got teh water analyze every 2nd week. So for human consumption I always used bottled water. Most wells you will need some kind of water treatment system.

 

If you have a fairly new drilled well with a good steel liner that protrudes well above the soil, it seems quite unlikely that it will get polluted. To be on the safe side you might want to test frequently during spring run-off or any huge downpour. We live fairly close to a supermarket that has a vending machine for water. It's quite cheap once you have your own container(s). We used that before we had a softener system installed because the calcium would plug the coffemaker and leave gritty stuff at the bottom of the kettle.