BRUTAL

[Moosebunk]

'Possession' is not an explanation, there is no such thing. And he was human. The latest info is that he was autistic, therefore not fully capable of judging his own actions. There is no evil here, just a mentally ill person who was just as much a victim as anyone else. Nobody asks to be mentally ill.

 

Apologies Dave. Part of this was merely venting yesterday.

 

With 18 years directly involved in Healthcare, 13 on the frontlines in rural and remote medicine, and much time spent working with all kinds of mentally and physically ill people, I can still tend to vent insensitively at times. I apologize if the comment offended you. I also consider being possessed (as this killer was) to include more than just a definition of one taken over by the "supernatural." In other meaning, this killer was possessed.

 

Again, it's an aweful thing, and one which is each person will think and deal with in their own manner.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Moosebunk

[hammercarp]

Some people are born with out limbs or without an ear and some are born missing a conscience. They cannot empathize or sympathize with the rest of humanity.We're just bugs to them. No amount of legislation or counciling will change this.

Almost immediately after the tragedy I read the hard liners on either side of the gun issue making statements on how to prevent this kind of violence.

We are going to see the killers face fill our TV and computer screens for the next several days at least. We are going to see the weapons used along with a full description of how they work over and over again. The media will show us the killers FB page , his Youtube channel, any chat groups or forums he participated in, and they will pursue everyone that ever knew him at school or work or in his neighbourhood and private life. Some will co-operate in order to get there 15 minutes of fame. We will see pictures of the faces of grieving and shocked parents. We will see the look of fear and confusion on the faces of the children. The media will produce a computer generated animation of the school showing where the killer parked his car , where he entered the school and where he shot his first victim right up to where he killed himself. Any videos of the killer participating in any activity will be shown. We will see this stuff over and over again during the next several days. This media frenzy and it's subsequent creation of another anti-hero will be the single biggest factor in guaranteeing that this type of outrage will happen again.

Edited December 15, 2012 by hammercarp

[aplumma]

The man in question (I wont say his name) was high functioning Autism. He was also an honour student, However he also had a personality disorder.. Lets not confuse Autism into being involved in this. This is directly from the shooters brother. Its time for Americans to reconsider the gun laws..I can almost guarantee you that if he were carrying rifles or shot guns he would have never made it in the school, and if he had he most certainly wouldn't have been able to fire over 100 rounds in as short of a time he did. I understand the guns were legally owned by the the shooters mother but I seriously doubt they were locked up in a box with trigger locks on them. I just don't understand why hand guns are needed unless you in law enforcement or military..There is just no need for them at all. So many things could have been done to prevent this, lets just hope we learn from this and move forward.. Did anyone hear about Mary Ann Jacob, the library clerk at Sandy Hook?.She Protected many children...saved their lives. God bless her.

 

 

Sorry but it is not the fault of the pistol that it was used in a negative manner. You can make a number of innocent items into weapons of mass destruction. Pistols are nothing more than tools that have both work related and recreational uses. I am not a gun nut but do own both long barrel and pistols and to date my pistols and rifles have not done any thing illegal. Canada has chosen to limit the ownership of pistols I am sad for this ruling it deprives you of a freedom that you do not have the pleasure of pursuing. Shall we also take away your right to drive a car or have diesel and fertilizer banned too? One has kill thousands of people a year the other can be misused and do a huge amount of damage or power a car and grow plants. Sorry back to the thread I am heart broken for the families that are affected by this tragic event but to blame a tool for the acts of a human is incorrect.

 

 

Art

[DoubleDigits]

This media frenzy and it's subsequent creation of another anti-hero will be the single biggest factor in guaranteeing that this type of outrage will happen again.

 

I think that the abundance of readily available assault rifles and handguns is the single biggest factor in ensuring that something like this will happen again.

[DoubleDigits]

Sorry but it is not the fault of the pistol that it was used in a negative manner. You can make a number of innocent items into weapons of mass destruction. Pistols are nothing more than tools that have both work related and recreational uses. I am not a gun nut but do own both long barrel and pistols and to date my pistols and rifles have not done any thing illegal. Canada has chosen to limit the ownership of pistols I am sad for this ruling it deprives you of a freedom that you do not have the pleasure of pursuing. Shall we also take away your right to drive a car or have diesel and fertilizer banned too? One has kill thousands of people a year the other can be misused and do a huge amount of damage or power a car and grow plants. Sorry back to the thread I am heart broken for the families that are affected by this tragic event but to blame a tool for the acts of a human is incorrect.

 

 

Art

 

I know very reasonable people who feel exactly this way, and you sound very reasonable...but, I disagree, and must say that it irks me to hear this issue reduced to a discussion of private property, rights and freedom. The Second Amendment? What do militias and Revolutionary America have to do with these school kids?

The conflation of guns and freedom, and the idea that citizens need to defend themselves from tyranny are falsehoods, sold, lock, stock and barrel by the people who make billions from producing WEAPONS (not tools...a hunting rifle is a tool, and to a soldier an AR is a tool, but we are talking about weapons--intended for killing human beings).

[Old Man]

Some people are born with out limbs or without an ear and some are born missing a conscience. They cannot empathize or sympathize with the rest of humanity.We're just bugs to them. No amount of legislation or counciling will change this.

 

This is, unfortunately the truest statement in this thread. Yet there will be all sorts of knee jerk reactions and solutions offered to try and prevent this from ever happening again. The truth we all don't want to deal with, is there's no way of ever preventing violence and cruelty from being inflicted on the innocent. History is full of human atrocities and I unfortunately don't see that changing anywhere in the near future. My heart goes out to the victims, families and all that are effect by this senseless act.

[aplumma]

I know very reasonable people who feel exactly this way, and you sound very reasonable...but, I disagree, and must say that it irks me to hear this issue reduced to a discussion of private property, rights and freedom. The Second Amendment? What do militias and Revolutionary America have to do with these school kids?

The conflation of guns and freedom, and the idea that citizens need to defend themselves from tyranny are falsehoods, sold, lock, stock and barrel by the people who make billions from producing WEAPONS (not tools...a hunting rifle is a tool, and to a soldier an AR is a tool, but we are talking about weapons--intended for killing human beings).

 

A pistol is as evil as a hammer is sitting on a table. It will never do anything wrong until it is misguided by a human. I use pistols just as some people find riding a snow mobile enjoyable. Both can kill the user or both can kill others it is all about how it is guided. I have served in the special forces and have fired weapons from a slingshot up to a 50 cal. sniper rifle that can literally shoot a fly off your shoulder at 500 yards. I do not own pistols for hunting nor will I use it for protection (a shotgun is much better) they are a recreational outlet for many people I know.

This will be a difference of opinions that we will have, both of us see this in a different light. If you ever get to my neck of the woods I would be delighted to show you a safe way to enjoy something that takes skill, concentration and a steady hand. I will show you what a craftsman has created out of metal that not only is nice to look at but the machining and precision of it will amaze anyone who has an eye for mechanical beauty. All I ask is don't blame a tool for the actions of a human it does not make sense. If you would like to discuss this further feel free to P.M. me I would prefer not to side track this since it is going well and the guns/no guns argument will kill this thread.

 

Thanks

 

 

Art

[DoubleDigits]

A pistol is as evil as a hammer is sitting on a table. It will never do anything wrong until it is misguided by a human. I use pistols just as some people find riding a snow mobile enjoyable. Both can kill the user or both can kill others it is all about how it is guided. I have served in the special forces and have fired weapons from a slingshot up to a 50 cal. sniper rifle that can literally shoot a fly off your shoulder at 500 yards. I do not own pistols for hunting nor will I use it for protection (a shotgun is much better) they are a recreational outlet for many people I know.

This will be a difference of opinions that we will have, both of us see this in a different light. If you ever get to my neck of the woods I would be delighted to show you a safe way to enjoy something that takes skill, concentration and a steady hand. I will show you what a craftsman has created out of metal that not only is nice to look at but the machining and precision of it will amaze anyone who has an eye for mechanical beauty. All I ask is don't blame a tool for the actions of a human it does not make sense. If you would like to discuss this further feel free to P.M. me I would prefer not to side track this since it is going well and the guns/no guns argument will kill this thread.

 

Thanks

 

 

Art

 

Thank you, and I won't go any further than saying that I appreciate your respectful, reasoned response, and even more so your offer.

[misfish]

And yet again,another in Alabama.

 

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/235302/14/Gunman-dead-after-Alabama-shooting

[lew]

And yet again,another in Alabama.

 

 

And another one last night in Vegas too Brian, and a couple days back some guy shot 2 more people in a mall cafeteria.

 

It's becoming a common occurance south of the border lately.

[Sandbag]

A pistol is as evil as a hammer is sitting on a table. It will never do anything wrong until it is misguided by a human. I use pistols just as some people find riding a snow mobile enjoyable. Both can kill the user or both can kill others it is all about how it is guided. I have served in the special forces and have fired weapons from a slingshot up to a 50 cal. sniper rifle that can literally shoot a fly off your shoulder at 500 yards. I do not own pistols for hunting nor will I use it for protection (a shotgun is much better) they are a recreational outlet for many people I know.

This will be a difference of opinions that we will have, both of us see this in a different light. If you ever get to my neck of the woods I would be delighted to show you a safe way to enjoy something that takes skill, concentration and a steady hand. I will show you what a craftsman has created out of metal that not only is nice to look at but the machining and precision of it will amaze anyone who has an eye for mechanical beauty. All I ask is don't blame a tool for the actions of a human it does not make sense. If you would like to discuss this further feel free to P.M. me I would prefer not to side track this since it is going well and the guns/no guns argument will kill this thread.

 

Thanks

 

 

Art

 

Very well put

 

 

And another one last night in Vegas too Brian, and a couple days back some guy shot 2 more people in a mall cafeteria.

 

It's becoming a common occurance south of the border lately.

 

 

Obviously the media plays a very important role in keeping the public informed. I rely on the news as much as the next person; however, when the intense media attention of these events is continually shown, it seems to flick some type of switch in like minded individuals.

 

My thoughts are with the many many families forever affected by these events.

 

Cheers

 

Craig

[funfishing]

I know very reasonable people who feel exactly this way, and you sound very reasonable...but, I disagree, and must say that it irks me to hear this issue reduced to a discussion of private property, rights and freedom. The Second Amendment? What do militias and Revolutionary America have to do with these school kids?

The conflation of guns and freedom, and the idea that citizens need to defend themselves from tyranny are falsehoods, sold, lock, stock and barrel by the people who make billions from producing WEAPONS (not tools...a hunting rifle is a tool, and to a soldier an AR is a tool, but we are talking about weapons--intended for killing human beings).

 

1000% agree

 

Comparing a gun to a car, to a hammer, ....whaaat?

 

The availability of weapons is sickening. Smuggled guns can't be controlled as they are by definition smuggled against the law, but those weapons are owned and used by criminals, who are more likely to use them among one another (among criminals).

 

This maniac's parents don't sound like criminals, and guess what, if they lived in a country where guns weren't a symbol of freedom to certain people, 20+ innocent children and teachers would still be alive. He would not have gone after them with a hammer. He would not have attempted to run over them. Don't be so damn foolish.

 

There is a high degree of cowardice in these types of acts. It's very cowardly, you just need to push a button, and you can wreak havoc. Swinging a hammer or driving a car is not as simple. It's the simplicity that drives these maniacs to do such things, they are nothing but cowards using a highly efficient killing tool, designed for, killing.

Edited December 16, 2012 by funfishing

[BillM]

No reason why the US shouldn't have a system similar to ours. Federal based licensing system, what's so wrong with it? (Waiting for people to call this socialism!!!)

[irishfield]

Very sad that numerous people couldn't leave this at.... our hearts bleed for all these families!

[Joey]

Very sad that numerous people couldn't leave this at.... our hearts bleed for all these families!

 

Wayne, people need to vent when a tragedy like this happens. They can't fathom the idea that a person could do such evil. It must be the guns that are evil, or the person had autism or yada yada. It is a healthy discussion because it needs to be talked about so we can try to make sense of the senseless. We want to come up with a solution to something there is no solution for because we grieve for the dead and those who lost a loved one and can't imagine being in their shoes!

[danc]

I can't ever recall seeing a hand gun in Canada, but on my annual trip to the NASCAR event in Kansas (40 days out of my entire life), I've seen about a dozen of them. A next door camper keeps a loaded gun under the seat of his truck. Another neighbor buddy at the track was showing me his collection, and when I picked one up to have a closer look, he said "Careful now, It's loaded". I just don't get that. He had probably a half dozen guns in his colletion alone.

 

Nancy Lanza owned these guns. Why does an upper middle class woman need to own these things? None of my friends Moms owned pistols and assault weapons. Anyways, I can go on and on about this. Raising my 5 years old grandson might have something to do with my feelings about this.

 

Bottom line for me is that "the right to bear arms" should be revisited. Clearly not everyone should have that "right". I'd rather have the right to feel safe, rather than the right to carry a gun. But that's just me. I don't live in the USA, so it's not my call.

[DoubleDigits]

Very sad that numerous people couldn't leave this at.... our hearts bleed for all these families!

 

 

Its a discussion board, so folks will tend to discuss things.

Shock and sympathy is shared by everyone here, and it goes without saying...but it will do nothing to help prevent similar events in the future. When something horrific happens, it seems not only natural, but necessary to think about, discuss and debate the underlying causes and contributing factors, and to offer suggestions about what could be done to prevent future tragedies.

[mercman]

I shed tears of sorrow and pain at the thought of the famillies and loved ones at this time of year, haveing to bury beloved familly members and friends as a result of senseless violence like this.

[Rich Clemens]

We also need to remember the EMS and police who responded to this tragedy. Their lives will forever be changed as well. In a small way, I can understand what they may be feeling. As a paramedic for a number of years, I can still remember the few times I had to deal with the death of a small child. One was a playmate of our daughter and was at our house quite often. It was at night and I still remember sitting up late into the night wondering how I would tell my daughter. At least, these real young ones involved a medical issue, but I have also seen what happens when teens "play" with guns and i can still recall the events many years later. Let's remember and pray for all involved.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Rich Clemens

[Rich Clemens]

Its a discussion board, so folks will tend to discuss things.

Shock and sympathy is shared by everyone here, and it goes without saying...but it will do nothing to help prevent similar events in the future. When something horrific happens, it seems not only natural, but necessary to think about, discuss and debate the underlying causes and contributing factors, and to offer suggestions about what could be done to prevent future tragedies.

 

Anger is one of the first steps in the grieving process. I'm sure most of us have been through this process at some point, it's showing that we really CARE.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Rich Clemens

[outllaw]

sad does not describe the deaths of innocent children. our hearts go out to everyone involved.

society has gone mad.

[solopaddler]

..I can almost guarantee you that if he were carrying rifles or shot guns he would have never made it in the school

 

This is exactly right. It's the first thing that popped into my head when I heard the details.

 

 

 

 

 

and if he had he most certainly wouldn't have been able to fire over 100 rounds in as short of a time he did.

 

 

Again I agree completely. This is an inarguable fact.

 

 

 

 

I just don't understand why hand guns are needed unless you in law enforcement or military..There is just no need for them at all.

 

That's just it in a nutshell isn't it? There is no real need for anyone to own these types of weapons.

 

Revisiting their gun laws needs to be done.

 

Obama talked about making some tough decisions regardless of politics in response to this tragedy. Let's see if he really will step up to the plate.

[bigugli]

Shall we also take away your right to drive a car or have diesel and fertilizer banned too? One has kill thousands of people a year the other can be misused and do a huge amount of damage or power a car and grow plants. Sorry back to the thread I am heart broken for the families that are affected by this tragic event but to blame a tool for the acts of a human is incorrect.

 

 

Art

In Canada a drivers license is a privilege that is granted, under Canadian law, as long as certain requirements are met. Driving is not a "right".

However, regardless of the gun rights argument, rights must be balanced with responsibilities. As fewer people exercise their responsibilities, the more frequent this cycle of violence will become.

[kemper]

If I lived in a place where I felt it was necessary to protect my family with two semi-automatic hand guns and an M4 Carbine, I would move. Assault weapons are exactly that - weapons. These aren't tools, toys, collector pieces, or wall ornaments, they are weapons designed with a single purpose.

 

Absolutely an unnecessary tragedy.

 

 

 

If gun control made it harder for ever a single murder to be committed, wouldn't it be worth it?

[Joey]

If I lived in a place where I felt it was necessary to protect my family with two semi-automatic hand guns and an M4 Carbine, I would move. Assault weapons are exactly that - weapons. These aren't tools, toys, collector pieces, or wall ornaments, they are weapons designed with a single purpose.

 

Absolutely an unnecessary tragedy.

 

 

 

If gun control made it harder for ever a single murder to be committed, wouldn't it be worth it?

 

I agree very much with this, and his mother paid with her life for having these "toys." Unfortunately, so did too many other innocents. I don't think the mother should have paid with her life, but also fail to understand the reasoning behind her having these weapons in the first place!