I would like to ask a question

[krixxer]

Bob, oh ya.... boat...

 

throw the book at them it they have cash for a boat then they can spend some money on lawyers.

 

 

 

Poaching is poaching

[Beans]

I truly believe it is lack of education. Many of these "ethnic" anglers, do not understand english enough to read the regs, or get a licence. The education should come from inside thier community.

If we take the time to show them in a way they can understand, hopefully they will stop this type of fishing practices.

 

Unless the MNR stopped doing it the regs are available in their language...

 

 

 

[DanD]

To a lot of people (New Canadians and some old) when they’re out there fishing, hunting or whatever illegally; they don’t consider it breaking the law unless they’re caught. The fish are free for the taking and they are going to take until they are told by someone with authority NO. It was/is a way of life for them “back home” too skirt the law and get what they wanted because that was the only way to get anything. They don’t pass up on anything that is free; because wherever home was there weren’t too many freebees. If you’re brought up with generations of this kind thinking; it is going too take a few generations for it to change.

Search back in your own family tree and find out what your great great great grandfather was doing in regards to conservation and how many generations it took for you and your family to have the mind set you have now.

Is it right no, but it is human nature; get what you can get today because there might not be any tomorrow.

Sad but it is how some societies have had to live and it will take time and enforcement to educate people that no really does mean no.

 

Dan.

[Dave Bailey]

I think what we're seeing is definitely a cultural divide.

 

BINGO! It isn't ethnic, or racial, it's cultural.

[BITEME]

Cliff

 

I know how you feel Im starting to get pretty hot under the collar as well and its not getting better

 

Generally if its really bad I scare the poo out of them and take pictures it usually makes said individuals stop I dont know what else to tell you..

 

Peter

[aplumma]

We all have judgment points that we feel are critical to finding our social nitch. We do it every day in life conscious and subconsciously. The triggers may be less noticeable like what they do for a living you could be sharing a beer with a lawyer (no offence intended) and until you know he is a lawyer he was a great guy. You could be fishing next to a millionaire and until he pulls out his $300.00 fishing rod and his $40.00 cigar he was an good buddy. He then pulls out a second $40.00 cigar and gives it to you he is now back in your good graces.

 

Now that we find we judge people with all of our senses the easiest one is sight. We judge everything constantly we hate that car we like that dress we think that person is bad because of his tattoos or least we go there they have a genetic signature that is easy to identify. If you dislike someone because of a cultural belief then take the time to find out if they even follow that belief. I have an Asian friend who loves to talk like a redneck just to mess with people when he gets the stereotype vib.

 

The main root of prejudging people is to raise the level on which you stand. To support your self's worth in your eyes this is good for your esteem however it is a two edged sword judge to harshly or to often and others will see that you are beneath them for this action. Talk to the person for 5 min. then figure out if he is a positive or a negative in your life. It will keep you from missing out on some great friends and hopefully avoid the ones that truly are beneath you.

 

 

Art

[bucktail]

The strangest example of "throwing his line over yours is" On Simcoe about 5 years ago me and my buddie were wailing on the perch and throwing them back. Well this "guy" is watching us and keeps drilling holes closer and closer to my friend. No word of a lie, he finally drilled a hole 3 feet from my buddies hole. I had to hold my friend back from drilling him.

We just left and didnt escalate it. Funny part is we moved a 100yards and he still didnt catch fish.

 

I dont care what a single person on here says about culture or ethnicity, some people are just Aholes.

 

I remember many years ago my other friend had a problem with some new "canadians" as they would come down to the local fishing hole and leave garbage and used diapers everywhere, so one day he walked down with a garbage bag grabbed the main person by the collar and made him clean it up. If only it was that easy.

 

 

All I can say is call the C.O. with all the info you can get, its not worth getting in trouble on your case.

 

 

Darren

[limeyangler]

The strangest example of "throwing his line over yours is" On Simcoe about 5 years ago me and my buddie were wailing on the perch and throwing them back. Well this "guy" is watching us and keeps drilling holes closer and closer to my friend. No word of a lie, he finally drilled a hole 3 feet from my buddies hole. I had to hold my friend back from drilling him.

We just left and didnt escalate it. Funny part is we moved a 100yards and he still didnt catch fish.

 

I dont care what a single person on here says about culture or ethnicity, some people are just Aholes.

 

I remember many years ago my other friend had a problem with some new "canadians" as they would come down to the local fishing hole and leave garbage and used diapers everywhere, so one day he walked down with a garbage bag grabbed the main person by the collar and made him clean it up. If only it was that easy.

 

 

All I can say is call the C.O. with all the info you can get, its not worth getting in trouble on your case.

 

 

Darren

Hey Darren...what are you trying to illustrate with your anecdotes? I have had numerous US tourists encroach on my boat on an otherwise empty lake in the middle of nowhere, I have nearly had fights with British people on piers casting over my line repeatedly even after trying to diplomatically explain a system where everyone could fish together....my point with my anecdotes is...what difference does it make where you are from...there are local as well as more exotic!

[Grimace]

Race has nothing to do with anyone's decision to do anything. There are, as mentioned earlier, cultural differences in different societies. Thinking that ethnicity has anything to do with it is the start of a very dangerous and unhealthy way of thinking.

 

Edit: Typo

Edited May 8, 2012 by Grimace

[bushart]

This is why I avoid the human race in general as a rule and hang with my dog

 

He never casts over my line or drinks the last beer---and always listens when I re-tell stories

[bigbuck]

Krixxer, good comment. It is true to a point. I have spoken to members of a certain ethnic group hammering panfish on the Bewdley dock keeping absolutely everything. I asked why?? Those fish are too bony. The reply, they get ground up into a paste to be used as a condiment. My reply, If you keep fishing like that, there won't be any fish left in the lake. No reply.

What do you do?? I'd call the MNR if there are any violations of the regs, and I don't care what race, colour, creed, religion or political views you have.

One thing we all need to remember is that the people here before that certain ethnic group namely we white bread and the natives to North America fished out a lot of our waters and polluted the heck out of them first.

It's up to all of us to manage our resources and it is incumbent upon each and everyone to report overfishing to the MNR. Hopefully the MNR can slow down the degredation of our resources.

So endeth my sermon.

[mirogak]

Its pretty simple really they come from a resource poor country. They come here and the resource seems plentiful so they feel they should take advantage of it to help them economically. These are a people that came here because they wanted a better life for themselves and for their families. Protein was a luxury for them and here its readily available with little effort. Education is the only answer and generational shift. Remember it was your ancestors that wiped out the Atlantic Salmon from over harvest and habitat destruction and its still us whities who are wiping out the brook trout stream by stream here in souhern ontario without even a second thought. So don't be to quick to point your finger.

 

Well said.

[Lungelarry]

I heard from a friend of a friend,that "THOSE PEOPLE" have their own fishing forums. They rant and laugh about middle class white folk,that spend hundreds of thousands of $$$ on all the fancy crap,to keep up with the jones.They laugh,when they think about all the money and time the whities spend and then take a pic then release the fish,just to have a pic to put on facebook or a forum to be a wanna be star.They laugh cause they have white buckets,and we have white coolers,we have a top on our white bucket........ . PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE CHILL OUT>>>>>>>>>

[crappieperchhunter]

Thinking that ethnicity has anything to do with it is the start of a very dangerous and unhealthy way of thinking.

 

Edit: Typo

 

Agreed. People I know that talk with such poison...well it just makes me ill. I have had conversations with such people about the topic brought up here. It's pretty common in the fishing community and you all know what I'm talking about. And later I have been approached by another person who is not a fisherman but was within earshot of the conversation and without fail they say..." I had no idea so and so was such a racist and hated those people so much. You may not think your a racist and you may not be... but it's pretty hard for others not to paint you with that brush if that is the tone of all your conversations regarding "those people".

[Paulus]

Old habits die hard I guess.. I think they see it as food and sustenance and nothing else.

 

There are many ethnic backgrounds that fit this description, at least in my opinion. I've been greased out by all of them, lol!

Great post Cliff, and I think it was a tasteful way to bring it up. And why not talk about it? it exists and communication is the best way to get through it.

 

I agree with Bill on this one, but I will add that I notice a definite shift once you get into the 2nd and 3rd generations, for all cultures. This goes for my own culture, too (French Canadian). I speak to guys who want to catch their limit every time they come out and know quite a few who've acclimatized and are totally on board with not only following etiquette but catch-and-release.

 

One of my best friends and fishing buddies is from a completely different background. He’s first generation canadian and he has gone from one extreme to the other, from keep ‘em all to catch & release.

 

It takes a while, I think for the ownership and pride in the resources to sink in, and conservationism is a big part of that. In so many countries, there are either no regulations or no resources left – but this is a great counter-point to use in discussion with some of these folks. That is, the reason we have so much is because there are enough people who practice conservation – if they didn’t, you and I would not even have the chance to do so.

 

p.-

[Headhunter]

Great post Cliff, and I think it was a tasteful way to bring it up. And why not talk about it? it exists and communication is the best way to get through it.

 

I agree with Bill on this one, but I will add that I notice a definite shift once you get into the 2nd and 3rd generations, for all cultures. This goes for my own culture, too (French Canadian). I speak to guys who want to catch their limit every time they come out and know quite a few who've acclimatized and are totally on board with not only following etiquette but catch-and-release.

 

One of my best friends and fishing buddies is from a completely different background. He’s first generation canadian and he has gone from one extreme to the other, from keep ‘em all to catch & release.

 

It takes a while, I think for the ownership and pride in the resources to sink in, and conservationism is a big part of that. In so many countries, there are either no regulations or no resources left – but this is a great counter-point to use in discussion with some of these folks. That is, the reason we have so much is because there are enough people who practice conservation – if they didn’t, you and I would not even have the chance to do so.

 

p.-

So we are essentialy chasing our tail... two things come to mind...

Can the resources close to our major centers sustain these numbers of catches?

Given the number of new arrivals annually, let's say within the GTA, we will never see an end to this kind of thing. Sure 2nd and 3rd generation folks start to see the light, but new arrivals will simply follow their traditions... the fish are gonna take a beating.

The only solution to this problem I can see is enforcement, enforcement enforcement... it only really hits home when it hits the wallet.

HH

[crappieperchhunter]

 

The only solution to this problem I can see is enforcement, enforcement enforcement... it only really hits home when it hits the wallet.

HH

 

Yep agree 100% here as well. Too bad the enforcement part will NEVER have the budget to tackle the problem successfully. Which is why 100 years from now fishing forums of the future will still be debating this same topic.

[Ron]

I have had several situations where where like Big Cliff said, ethnic groups have been a problem. Now I am certain Cliff meant more towards the word ethic.

 

1: We were float fishing off the West pier in Port Hope, a gentleman came in between us and decided to fish on the bottom interrupting everyone's drift. It didn't go over too lightly and eventually this man lost his footing and fell in the lake. What we do now is kindly tell the person to either change techniques or fish else where. If they don't comply, we carry on with our drift and every time someone hooks into their line, we pull their line in cut it off and continue with our fishing. If they were there first, we follow their techniques. No harm done.

 

2: In the winter months I personally spend much time clearing ice off the rivers in order to enjoy the fishing opportunities. If I am spending 3 - 4 hrs breaking ice only to have a guy come sit in his car and wait until the work is done then get out and fish, I have a problem with that. In fact I spent several hours braking ice, decided to grab a coffee to warm up and give the fish to relax then come back to fish. A group of guys came in the mean time and fished the area I had broken up. I grabbed my rod and they said there wasn't room for me to fish. So in a polite way, I brought it to their attention who opened the hole in the first place. Too bad they said. Well, I had no choice but to break up more ice in the same area. They looked at me in disgust as I was disturbing the fish. That's when the arguing and threats started by both parties. They eventually packed up and left.

 

3: I was fishing Crappies and a group of anglers in another boat came in literally casting over our lines. After frustration finally set in. I started up the main motor backed up to where we were catching our fish, trimmed up the motor and made it to the point no one was going to catch fish in the area. We left, found a new spot to fish and sure enough the same group of people came in this spot. Now these guys saw the "roster tail" my boat can make. I politely turned my boat towards their boat, gave it a small shot of gas. They understood what was going to happen next and quickly packed up their rods and anchor and promptly left.

 

4: Fishing in a high current river, to the point you can only back drift with the electric going full tilt. There is lots of room to go around and this group of anglers didn't have the respect of controlling their speed thus almost throwing us out of the boat. Education was key here as I followed suit only they were out of the boat and on shore as I went by. They soon understood what they did wrong and admittedly apologized for their actions.

 

5: The rest of the time I just look at them, shake my head and look the other way and leave.

 

Most of these instances were with people who could not call prejudice or minority.

 

I run into many people who are unethical, I look back at these few examples and find myself unethical for some of my actions as well.

[doubleheader]

The strangest example of "throwing his line over yours is" On Simcoe about 5 years ago me and my buddie were wailing on the perch and throwing them back. Well this "guy" is watching us and keeps drilling holes closer and closer to my friend. No word of a lie, he finally drilled a hole 3 feet from my buddies hole. I had to hold my friend back from drilling him.

We just left and didnt escalate it. Funny part is we moved a 100yards and he still didnt catch fish.

 

I dont care what a single person on here says about culture or ethnicity, some people are just Aholes.

 

I remember many years ago my other friend had a problem with some new "canadians" as they would come down to the local fishing hole and leave garbage and used diapers everywhere, so one day he walked down with a garbage bag grabbed the main person by the collar and made him clean it up. If only it was that easy.

 

 

All I can say is call the C.O. with all the info you can get, its not worth getting in trouble on your case.

 

 

Darren

 

 

Have to say i'm in agreement with Bucktai l00%. I find it very difficult to believe people don't know the regs, they just don't care, so our recourse is to report them. Another thing that seems to drive rude behavior is tournament fishing. Don't get me wrong I'm not anti tournament but I've experienced many times people doing things in a tournament they wouldn't think of doing on a casual outing. Just this weekend I had a guy I know pull right in front of me and anchor without saying a word. I waited til the boats were almost touching and said, "No Hoss I don't mind if you pull right into where I've been fishing the last 3 hours." Guys a jerk, but I wasn't going to get all bent up, life's too short.

[OutdoorDan]

Lack of respect, lack of education, fishing for food, lack of enforcement, they dont care about you and what you stand for...

 

I don't think it's any of these things.

 

It's a cultural/contextual divide. If someone from Europe or Australia visits Canada and they get a meal at the restaurant and don't tip, is it because they don't respect/care about the waiter? No, it's because they are used to a different set of values and consider different things to be culturally appropriate. The same thing is happening here.

 

I'm not really buying the financial argument either. Even if you go somewhere that is an hour's drive away, you are likely spending at least 20$ bare minimum on gas. So even ignoring the cost of a licence, tackle and equipment, the cost of the trip could get you several pounds of fish at the supermarket.

 

I only skimmed through this thread so sorry if this has been mentioned, but some people/cultures actually find it offensive/inappropriate to catch and release edible fish. This concept shouldn't be hard to understand. I am sure the hunters on this forum would be disgusted if I suggested that if you like to hunt but don't eat much meat, you should hunt with a tranquillizer gun, then take the picture while the animal is tranquillized, then go home, letting the animal get back to roaming shortly. To some people, C&R is the same.

[chris.brock]

 

 

I only skimmed through this thread so sorry if this has been mentioned, but some people/cultures actually find it offensive/inappropriate to catch and release edible fish.

 

maybe so, but here I would have to say, this is Canada, we catch and release, and it's vital to sustaining some fisheries, if you don't like it....................

[OutdoorDan]

maybe so, but here I would have to say, this is Canada, we catch and release, and it's vital to sustaining some fisheries, if you don't like it....................

 

Just to clarify my position - I am not justifying the behaviours described in this thread. I completely agree that there is so sustainability without C&R. I'm not defending the behaviour.

 

I was just trying to explain that it's a more complicated and sensitive issue than just people having a lack of respect or being uneducated. Lots of people know the limits but choose to go over them just because they are wired differently. Explaining things doesn't usually go far either because people will justify or find excuses anyway.

 

Ideally, you want to solve problems such as this through education and awareness but I don't think that works very well in practice. What you need is stronger deterrence. The reason most people don't go 150 on an empty highway isn't because they think it might be dangerous, but because if you go 50 over your car gets impounded. Right now, the risks to minor poaching are so small that when people weigh risk/reward they choose to poach. You are pretty unlikely to get caught in the first place, and even if you do the consequences seem pretty small. I actually don't mind light punishments for lighter stuff (say you keep 2 walleye but one is in the slot). The problem is that the consequences for the heavier stuff are non existent. Every now and then, relatively major poaching stuff comes up in the News section of OOD and the consequences are a joke. For poaching of big game you would often see something like losing your licence for a year and a fine in the 4 figure range. When someone reads that, of course they are going to think that if they keep 75 crappies nothing will happen to them. And unfortunately, they are right.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Lota lota

[Headhunter]

Excellent response Lota... I couldn't agree with you more!

HH

[soobnoob]

maybe so, but here I would have to say, this is Canada, we catch and release, and it's vital to sustaining some fisheries, if you don't like it....................

 

so it's ok for Canadians to hunt? pretty sure it's dominated by NON "ethnic" groups. lets deport them

 

 

Anybody else feel this thread is going racial? pointing the finger at so called ethnic groups... why even butter it up anymore. if only Canadians were perfect, we'd never have any crime in canada.

[adempsey]

I've experienced the same issues as the original poster. However, in my case, if I were to categorize all the jackasses into "ethnic groups" I'd say it's been predominantly white Canadians. So, what does that mean? It means absolutely nothing.

 

It's easy to judge from your personal experiences, but it's unfair to claim such broad generalizations based on them.