Marine Survey?

[AKRISONER]

Hey Guys,

I am trying to get everything set up for the boat that I just purchased and I was notified that because my boat is 20 years old I am required to obtain a marine survey in order to get insurance.  Is this for friggin real? If so, where can one be conducted and how does the process work.

 

Also I am open to any info as it relates to this being a requirement for all insurance companies or is it only partial to some?

 

This insurance crap is getting ridiculous with this boat considering its not even a legal requirement. I am basically forced to insure the boat for far more than its cash value anyways....Im reading this marine survey might cost me close to $500?!

[BillM]

No insurance on our boat.  

[grimsbylander]

Call around. It's not a mandatory requirement. I'd never pay for a survey on a boat I already bought/own. 

Bill, no insurance? Collision ok but no liability?

 

[OhioFisherman]

" I was notified that because my boat is 20 years old I am required to obtain a marine survey in order to get insurance. "

LOL, notified by who? Did they speak with an accent? I got a call today telling me my vehicle warranty has expired, it's not even 10 years old!

It might just be that insurance company? My boat was covered by my homeowners policy, but they had like a 50 or 60 hp limit on boats they would cover under it.

They also called me one time and said if I didn't get rid of the kids trampoline I was going to have to find another insurance company.

They might not want to provide insurance on a boat that may have wood in the transom rotted?

[Canuck]

Larger boats need a survey for insurance. Not sure how big your boat is. My last two have needed surveys to get insurance. 

[G.mech]

If the boat is financed, the lender often requires you to insure it.  The insurer in turn requires the survey if the boat is older.   

Edited March 6, 2018 by G.mech

[cisco]

Best time for a marine survey is before you buy it. Without a survey from the owner you may be buying trouble. Call the nearest boat dealer/marina. They know who does surveys for them and who is nearby.

Best of luck!

[AKRISONER]

5 hours ago, BillM said:

No insurance on our boat.  

an option im heavily considering after looking up how low the incidence of boat accidents is if you dont drink and boat...less than 40 per year in canada. 

1 hour ago, cisco said:

Best time for a marine survey is before you buy it. Without a survey from the owner you may be buying trouble. Call the nearest boat dealer/marina. They know who does surveys for them and who is nearby.

Best of luck!

didnt need the survey for "soundness" of the boat, its all fibreglass no marks and the engine runs...what more could I want?

2 hours ago, G.mech said:

If the boat is financed, the lender often requires you to insure it.  The insurer in turn requires the survey if the boat is older.   

not financed

2 hours ago, OhioFisherman said:

" I was notified that because my boat is 20 years old I am required to obtain a marine survey in order to get insurance. "

LOL, notified by who? Did they speak with an accent? I got a call today telling me my vehicle warranty has expired, it's not even 10 years old!

It might just be that insurance company? My boat was covered by my homeowners policy, but they had like a 50 or 60 hp limit on boats they would cover under it.

They also called me one time and said if I didn't get rid of the kids trampoline I was going to have to find another insurance company.

They might not want to provide insurance on a boat that may have wood in the transom rotted?

apparently its standard for any boat over 20 with any company...i dont need to pay 500 for someone to tell me that my boat is in good mechanical shape...im capable of doing that myself.

3 hours ago, grimsbylander said:

Call around. It's not a mandatory requirement. I'd never pay for a survey on a boat I already bought/own. 

Bill, no insurance? Collision ok but no liability?

 

its mandatory apparently for anything over 20...yawn so stupid

 

you only have to do it if you buy teh boat second hand after 20 years....I already know the boat will float and run, what a friggin scam

[DRIFTER_016]

My boat was over 20 when I had to insure it up here in the NWT and there was no request for a survey.

Are you checking with the insurance companies or going through a broker?

If you aren't going through a broker go to one. They deal with many different companies and will get you the best deal and work through any red tape.

[cisco]

"didnt need the survey for "soundness" of the boat, its all fibreglass no marks and the engine runs...what more could I want?"

It's not what you want. It's what the insurance company wants. Fibreglass can fool you. The survey is for valuation and risk assessment. If the survey finds the fibreglass hull has been compromised by water, gas, holding tank leakage then this affects the value and also points to liability issues which raises rates or prevents coverage. If gasoline has gotten into the hull would you want to insure it? If water has rotted out the transom under the fibreglass would you want to insure it?

The aft part where the motor mounts are may be rotten/rusted/broken inside. Big engines need solid structure. Surveyor  can help find such stuff to help the insurer know what they're insuring. 

BTW I don't mean to piss you off.  There are many entrances into the fibreglass hull where delamination or seepage can occur. 

 

[G.mech]

7 hours ago, AKRISONER said:

not financed

 

Sorry, I guess I was just jumping to that conclusion based on the 6 page thread detailing all your plans to finance it.....

Edited March 6, 2018 by G.mech

[Old Ironmaker]

Insure it through your Home Owners policy or find a new broker and make sure you tell them you are shopping for a new provider. A required survey for a small Skeeter is ridiculous.

[AKRISONER]

1 hour ago, cisco said:

"didnt need the survey for "soundness" of the boat, its all fibreglass no marks and the engine runs...what more could I want?"

It's not what you want. It's what the insurance company wants. Fibreglass can fool you. The survey is for valuation and risk assessment. If the survey finds the fibreglass hull has been compromised by water, gas, holding tank leakage then this affects the value and also points to liability issues which raises rates or prevents coverage. If gasoline has gotten into the hull would you want to insure it? If water has rotted out the transom under the fibreglass would you want to insure it?

The aft part where the motor mounts are may be rotten/rusted/broken inside. Big engines need solid structure. Surveyor  can help find such stuff to help the insurer know what they're insuring. 

BTW I don't mean to piss you off.  There are many entrances into the fibreglass hull where delamination or seepage can occur. 

 

Lesson learned....I apologize to everyone here, never read about how insurance companies are trying to take you and then post right before bed. You become a total bumhole and then sound like one when you post.

 

You are totally right cisco, the time to get a marine survey is before you buy the boat. But for the price i paid, theres definitely gonna be some inhereted risk associated with buying a 20 year old boat. I already know that there was one fibreglass repair done to it...the seller was 100% forthcoming, the repair was done close to 6 years ago when he had no intention of selling it. At that time the owner had every intention of continuing to use the boat so he had it professionally repaired and spent a lot of money doing so. He showed me the job the guy did from the inside out and you literally could basically not tell from the inside that it had been repaired aside from colouration and from the outside it was spotless and impossible to see.

The owner even provided me with the receipt for the repair because the shop that did it guaranteed it for life.

What im looking at now is that I could go get this marine survey done, and they could basically say the boat is uninsurable, and now ive literally thrown away the cost of getting the survey when Im contemplating not insuring the boat at all now anyways. Like hypothetically they say that it shouldnt be insured...and sure enough im back at square one unable to get insurance and out $500

This is how these guys get you, you cant get Liability insurance...you have to buy the complete package for a boat thats blue book is only $3000 thats with a $1000 deductible...so basically i would never claim against the insurance anyways If the boat is totally shot...im out the money i paid for the boat...im using my own judgement and inspection of the boat and taking on that risk.

In my opinion I should be afforded that freedom and provided the opportunity to purchase liability insurance that would basically have nothing to do with the mechanical functionality of the boat. I get it, if the boat friggin sinks instantly and all of my friends are in it and we all drown...theres a problem, but like a few pictures of the boat would solve that?

 

Sorry to rant...Cisco if the boat was 30+ thousand I would be 100% on board to get the survey done before hand, but for insurance purposes when all i want coverage for is if someone goes swimming at night in the middle of the lake and I somehow dont see them...I guess i better reverse and make sure they get chopped up entirely at this point ahaha. Great advice though!

 

41 minutes ago, Old Ironmaker said:

Insure it through your Home Owners policy or find a new broker and make sure you tell them you are shopping for a new provider. A required survey for a small Skeeter is ridiculous.

 

I tried that Iron, they will only do up to 60hp ....Youd think i was buying a 50 foot yacht lol.

 

Ive done some heavy reading about boat accident stats....basically if you dont drink and boat...there are 42 boat related casualties per year in canada from boating....8(7)% of these deaths would have been prevented had the people worn PFD's....so basically at this point id be insuring myself against the 2 people per year that die in power boating accidents that are wearing PFD's and werent drinking and boating. 

 

Seems insane right? I honestly couldnt believe the stats were that low...the large majority of boat accidents are people that are fishing that fall overboard without a PFD or are drunk...not really surprising when you think about it.

Edited March 6, 2018 by AKRISONER

[lew]

Get in touch with Northstar Insurance, they specialize in boat insurance and are very good to deal with.

http://www.northstarinsurance.ca/about-us/

[AKRISONER]

43 minutes ago, lew said:

Get in touch with Northstar Insurance, they specialize in boat insurance and are very good to deal with.

http://www.northstarinsurance.ca/about-us/

Hey Lew,

They are one of the companies that quoted me, they require a Marine Survey for any boat over 15 years old.

[Lape0019]

Akrisoner,

You have already figured out that this is a requirement. It is not something a lot of us even think about when buying a boat because it only applies to people with 15-20 year old boats. Having said that, I think it also only applies to fiberglass boats as my father was asked to provide one after owning it a few years and when it hit 20 years old. This boat was an aluminum Lund. He called the insurance company up and said it was aluminum and they said not to worry about it then.

As you have also found out, insurance really is optional on boats but with anything, it's always good to have for the "what if" scenarios. I've always carried insurance on my boat more so because it covers other things as well like if you ruin your lower unit and need a new one. They aren't exactly cheap. In your case, it may not be worth it but I would encourage you to ask some harder questions to the insurance company before getting a survey. If you do need a new lower, would they pay for it or would they write off the boat? what about hull damage? same thing? My decision to insure would be based on that and not the liability side since your research shows the truth about boating in Canada.

Now with my new boat, insurance wasn't an option. I needed it for financing and I didn't want to take the risk that if I hit something, I'd have to pay out of pocket for a brand new lower unit and any repairs to the hull. I'm figuring the LU on the new boat is $5,000 at least and I know hull work isn't cheap as a buddy just put in a claim for like $9,000 from hitting a shoal. Pretty much put on a new hull lol.

[AKRISONER]

5 minutes ago, Lape0019 said:

Akrisoner,

You have already figured out that this is a requirement. It is not something a lot of us even think about when buying a boat because it only applies to people with 15-20 year old boats. Having said that, I think it also only applies to fiberglass boats as my father was asked to provide one after owning it a few years and when it hit 20 years old. This boat was an aluminum Lund. He called the insurance company up and said it was aluminum and they said not to worry about it then.

As you have also found out, insurance really is optional on boats but with anything, it's always good to have for the "what if" scenarios. I've always carried insurance on my boat more so because it covers other things as well like if you ruin your lower unit and need a new one. They aren't exactly cheap. In your case, it may not be worth it but I would encourage you to ask some harder questions to the insurance company before getting a survey. If you do need a new lower, would they pay for it or would they write off the boat? what about hull damage? same thing? My decision to insure would be based on that and not the liability side since your research shows the truth about boating in Canada.

Now with my new boat, insurance wasn't an option. I needed it for financing and I didn't want to take the risk that if I hit something, I'd have to pay out of pocket for a brand new lower unit and any repairs to the hull. I'm figuring the LU on the new boat is $5,000 at least and I know hull work isn't cheap as a buddy just put in a claim for like $9,000 from hitting a shoal. Pretty much put on a new hull lol.

I started asking these questions and they admitted that should anything happen they are going to write the boat off...I also couldnt be bothered to pay the $1000 dollar deductible to get the extra 2 thousand they would give me along with the increased premiums on anything I insure for the rest of my life. 

I already accepted the fact that even if anything happened to my boat, I wouldnt make a claim because it wouldnt be worth it. My loss if I crash the boat...the boating stats kinda shocked me that they were so low...but it makes a lot of sense, especially on the areas I boat, the only yahoos seem to be on jet skis...surprise surprise...and thats not my responsibility

[Lape0019]

Yeah...

 

That would make my mind up pretty quick.

[BillM]

4 hours ago, G.mech said:

Sorry, I guess I was just jumping to that conclusion based on the 6 page thread detailing all your plans to finance it.....

He used a HELOC I'm guessing.  Bank doesn't give a crap what you use it for.

[AKRISONER]

18 minutes ago, BillM said:

He used a HELOC I'm guessing.  Bank doesn't give a crap what you use it for.

Sorry mech i thought i quoted and replied to you...a few pages back i talked about how because my mortgage isnt being done through one of the bank's "approved list of 7 lenders" they wouldnt give me a Heloc

Spoke to my old man and he was cool with doing the loan for me because he likes the idea of me not using his boat anymore 

 

So yes, ive got a loan, but its through my old man so in anyone elses eyes its paid for in cash.

[jimmer]

Welcome to the world where insurance companies rule it. I would lean towards not insuring it. However, you require insurance if you are going to fish organized tournaments. This stuff drives me crazy.

[Headhunter]

Just make sure that when they do the inspection, you remove the lawn darts in the hold and you should be go to go!

HH

[G.mech]

One other consideration which has not been mentioned is that many boats get damaged while being trailered on the road or in storage.   I always thought they were covered with the tow vehicle while being towed but recently found out that only the trailer is covered and not the load itself (i.e. the boat).  Likely not a big factor in Akri's case by the sound of things but may be a consideration for others.    

[AKRISONER]

6 minutes ago, G.mech said:

One other consideration which has not been mentioned is that many boats get damaged while being trailered on the road or in storage.   I always thought they were covered with the tow vehicle while being towed but recently found out that only the trailer is covered and not the load itself (i.e. the boat).  Likely not a big factor in Akri's case by the sound of things but may be a consideration for others.    

 

good point G, this is exactly what happened to the previous owner and the reason for the hull repair. He was trailering and something kicked up off of the road and hit the side of the boat damaging the fibreglass on the left side. 

He explained that he was pretty upset because he ended up paying a heck of a lot of money out of pocket to repair the hull because it wasnt covered by his truck's insurance.

[Old Ironmaker]

3 hours ago, AKRISONER said:

Sorry mech i thought i quoted and replied to you...a few pages back i talked about how because my mortgage isnt being done through one of the bank's "approved list of 7 lenders" they wouldnt give me a Heloc

Spoke to my old man and he was cool with doing the loan for me because he likes the idea of me not using his boat anymore 

 

So yes, ive got a loan, but its through my old man so in anyone elses eyes its paid for in cash.

Tell him it's part of a "Living Will" no payback required. My kid brother suggested my parents do that for him. I told him he better make sure he has a will in order.

As far as the difficulty insuring an older glasser as they say "You learn something everyday." A gent brought his boat in to our little hobby marine shop where I help the guys work on boats to keep us out of trouble over the winter. A gent brought in a early model 17' glass StarCraft that he could feel a soft spot in the floor. The boat looked mint for any age. The thing was rotten to the hull, it is surprising the I/O didn't fall through the hull as the motor mounts were basically hanging by a treaded bolt. We have been working on it since DEC 1. Looks can be deceiving on a glass boat. It all started years back from a non tight cover that let water in the aft corners and got trapped between the outside stringers. You could pull some of the wood out in pieces by hand.

I was once told on another site by a broker Canadians generally do not insure their off road toys, and many never register them. Your Skeeter was stored indoors so you should not have a problem. If you keep it outside get the best, tightest mooring cover you can. A snap down towing cover isn't the same. When mine is parked I use 8 large Javex bottles full of water hanging on the grommets to keep the mooring cover much tighter than with a draw string. If you need a cover I have a lead on a custom cover maker at a good price, she uses Sunbrella. My Sunbrella cover is over 20 years old. If you are interested PM me.

I saw 2 guys in a boat on the Grand today fishing in Dunnville.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Old Ironmaker