North American Auto Industry (nf) ~!

[Benthook]

Attached is a article from today's Toronto Star outlining that at the pace were going with the foreign influence on our buying habits of today's automobile and how popular of a choice it has become. Don't get me wrong I think it's just swell that these big auto makers set up shop in Canada and employ canadian's with jobs but I have alway's thought we were being blindsided that one day when they in fact can afford to keep there prices way below market level where we simply cant compete anymore and the customer is practically forced to purchase that vehicle at hand, what in turn will that do to our north american market? Yeap.. I would say it would collapse at the mercy of all the other foreign pressure while all along thinking were getting great deals and supporting our own in a sense because of friends and family working at these automobile maker plants. Not to say that there still won't be jobs in the future to come but what about all those other keen business's that trickle down the ladder that support the big steam of the canadian economy which is the auto market. Well I think in due time once these super powers eventually take a wider and wider margin that you will see more and more foreign business's set up here at that point in time conducting business with there own and over time you will see more and more of their own being employed at these plants...which in turn will effect our canadian owned and operated business at hand....just my take but I have always felt strongly about this~!

 

"(China) is a machine. ...

 

If we don't stop

 

it now, our industry will erode and we just won't have one in 15 to 20 years."

 

Buzz Hargrove, president of the

 

Canadian Auto Workers

 

 

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...ol=969048863851

 

Everything seems ducky now don't it.... but I say support local if at all possible before it's little too late~!

Edited November 30, 2006 by Benthook

[Terry]

it will screw things up for a while like the J A Pan did

but then thier wages got higher as did the cost of living , till they were in the same boat as us ..it does work itself out over time.....but as long as we buy cheap

and not Canadian/north america the problem will be there............

 

with the industry knowlege from hong kong and the cheap labour from the rest of china it is a problem

but better we pay them for building toys, then fight them for food

[Fisherman]

 

with the industry knowlege from hong kong and the cheap labour from the rest of china it is a problem

but better we pay them for building toys, then fight them for food

Many, many years ago, (40) or so, I can remember my dad saying, never mind the rest of those numpties, but you just wait til the orient starts pushing across the pacific and they'll be hungry for food and work and do anything for it.

Edited November 29, 2006 by Fisherman

[BITEME]

simple 60 to 70 % of all goods in North America that are sold to the consuming public must be made in north America keep our jobs at home may be a niave solution but hey im a simple kind of guy

I hate having to buy chinese crap i buy north american whenever possible and i will pay the extra cost for something that lasts and supports my north american brothers or sisters and no im not in a union

[Benthook]

Bumpity bump~! Sorry I know this isn't about fishing but I think it's a topic worth discussing only because I know there's some real smart buggers on this board that hold back sometimes...unlike uninformed me~! lol~! Other then a U.S. slowdown isn't there real good reason there offering these packages...isn't this a very good sign to back my first post? I may be wrong...whats your take? thanks~! Maybe im too much of a pesimist eh~! lol

 

Ford lost $7 billion through the first nine months of this year, and has said it does not expect to earn a profit in North America until 2009 at the earliest.

 

 

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...ol=969048863851

Edited November 30, 2006 by Benthook

[John Bacon]

I can remember a few years back when General Motors wanted to outsource some of their machine shop jobs. Buzz Hargrove organized a strike at GM; GM caved in and kept the jobs in house.

 

Buzz Hargrove and the CAW prevented GM from cutting their costs. Now, Buzz is worried that GM will not be able to compete with imports because of their high production costs. There is a certain irony to that.

 

Now, Buzz Hargrove wants the government to protect the domestic auto industry but does not mention anything about the CAW working with the manufacturers to help reduce costs and help them be more competitive.

 

I do agree that the government needs to ensure that we have equal access to China's market if we are going to allow imports from there. They need use more than we need them, so that shouldn't be too difficult to negotiate. But the unions need to realize that their employers are competing in a global economy. The CAW has been very aggresive in constantly trying to push wages higher for their members. This has been very beneficial to its members in the short term; but may very well cost all of its members there jobs in the the longterm.

 

The CAW cannot expect to negotiate above market wages and then have the goverment block competetion so that their employees can continue to sell overpriced product to the public.

Edited November 30, 2006 by JohnBacon

[Lamb]

Hargove and two senior CAW officials have been quietly conducting a two-week fact-finding mission in China and Korea in an effort to understand the implications of economic growth there on the union's members and future prospects for the auto industry here.

 

Anyone know how many new GM models are built in Korea? Answer...Buzz, stop counting your money.

[bucktail]

If I remember right, one of the main things handcuffing the big three is that they pay as much to pensions as to current employees.

Hard to compete when you are doing that.

But when push comes to shove there main problem was building crap vehicles and changing models every 15 minutes (GM) Toyota and Honda build the same models with high quality and no retooling.

I own both a ford and a honda and my civic is probably the best vehicle I have ever owned, simple and reliable.

My explorer has been a great vehicle but I have ordered a FJ Cruiser for April delivery. Going to give Toyota a try.

[Clampet]

FJ Cruiser. Drool. Nice vehicle! I mean very nice!

[Benthook]

Oh well I guess how the old saying goes "If ya can't beatem join'em....one of the three bigun's is getting smart I suppose~! Well see what happens to the other two over the next year or two...you just watch~!

 

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...h=Business/News

[aplumma]

I think that a company needs to earn my business thru its practices and products for me to buy it. I do not shop price until I have a tie between 2 products that are equal or close to equal in the quality and service they provide. People use me as their Plumber because I provide a better service, warrantee,product line and a better price than my competitors. It would be wrong for me to expect them to call me because I am local or go to the same church that they do. If I thought that I had a guaranteed customer base what is the incentive besides self pride to go the extra distance to provide a service or product that is exceptional? Outside competition is not an evil it is what keeps the local economy on its toes and not get greedy or lazy. You also have not added in the fact that alot of the raw materials they use are imported from the USA and Canada. We get money that way and we also tax the heck out of the products that come in to the countries. Ford and other big businesses are having problems meeting the expectations of the consumers because they have not adapted their companies to the changing markets. If you are over spending on the pensions that are paid to the retired workers and the CEO rewards and bonuses and will not take a stand to cut those costs. Their is only two things you can do mark up the product to generate more more profit or cut the quality of the labor force or product to maximize profit. Both are not acceptable to the average consumer so we have an impasse that we need to solve. Since I only offer my views and not the answers I am also looking for the solution to the Million dollar question posed here.

 

Art

[Benthook]

An update on Ford's current status....

 

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/174797

 

"Ford Motor Co. lost $5.8 billion in the fourth quarter amid slumping sales and huge restructuring costs, pushing the automaker’s deficit for the year to $12.7 billion, the largest in its 103-year history."

 

"Ford, faced with increasing competition from overseas rivals such as Toyota Motor Corp, is banking on the restructuring to pull it through the next two years."

 

"Ford has seen its market share deteriorate in recent years. At the same time, Toyota has seen its U.S. sales rise, beating Ford out for the No. 2 sales spot in July and November."

 

"Ford has rolled out or will introduce several new or updated products during 2007, including the Edge crossover, new F-series Super Duty pickups, a redesigned Focus small car and an updated Five Hundred larger sedan. But many analysts are skeptical that the products are strong enough to turn the company around."

 

One more baby step to north American automotive collapse~!

Edited January 26, 2007 by Benthook

[holdfast]

Crap, Who can forget the Pinto, Maverick, Gremlin, Pacer, Chevette days. America was crying back then to Buy american or lose your jobs. Good thing for consumer groups. Seems we're crying again. Its simple, produce acceptable vehicals, get out of the unions (Workers are paid more than a Loyal Soldier is). And improve on customer relations. Good thing for those import taxes, otherwise we wouldnt be seeing junk thats called Ford, Chevy. Ive failed to keep my wife away from the dollar stores and filling Chinese pockets.

Geez my heart really bleeds for the American Auto Industry.

[Greencoachdog]

Only the strong and wise will survive.

[JerseyDog]

Don't blame the foreign companies for being really good at what they do.

 

The domestic carmakers for whatever reason don't make cars people want to buy. In any great # anyway. In the old days, they made junk with 4,000 mile warranties and expected people to just deal with it and the foreign makers gave consumers a choice.

 

More recently, the domestics made lots of sport utes and ignored the car market where they are getting creamed.

 

They don't discount Toyota's at the dealer, but you can get GM product at 30% off the list every time, so its not cost that is the issue.

 

Its quality and/or perception of quality and for that the domestic car makers are failing and they cannot seem to turn the tide.

 

This is just an observation. I drive GM pretty exclusively because I like to support the North American car industry, but I can totally understand why others don't and I can only blame the Big Three for being lazy.

[hawkeye]

it now, our industry will erode and we just won't have one in 15 to 20 years."

 

Buzz Hargrove, president of the

 

Canadian Auto Workers

 

Now if Buzz had eroded a few years ago maybe the industry would be in better shape. You can't continue to pay those wages and bennies, produce mismarketed overpriced crap, and still stay in business. You either compete, in business, or you die. Simple

 

I'm sorry to say, Buzz, you ain't got 15 to 20 years. Wake up

 

I know it's not all Buzz's fault but he sure is a big part of the problem and no where to be found in the solution

[lunkerbasshunter]

i have cusotmers in windsor and if anybody is from that area they surely know how bad it is getting.

 

Its rather sad to think about it. The auto industry was one of the single biggest economic booms in history and its could be extinct soon.

[Uncle Buck]

Anyone who works in the Manufacturing Sector knows "what time it is"...

 

With so much work heading overseas, The local Shops just aren't getting the work, and many have closed their doors (not by choice)...

 

Manufacturing is more then 70% cheaper overseas. There are little if any labour laws, benefits, enviromental laws etc... There is such a vast number of people seeking employment, that if one person doesn't want to work for x dollars, then there are 100 more who are willing. I read an autoplant magazine last year, it said that 80% of workers in China make under $500 US a year, only 5% of the workforce made over $20,000. How are you supposed to compete against that? You can't. A man on the shop floor in ontario cost you average $200/day, how many people can they hire overseas for that money?

 

Then on the other hand, Auto Manufacturing Sources are getting the work done overseas at a fraction of the cost as it would be to have it made here, yet the price of Automobiles continue to increase year after year. Why not atleast pass along the savings to the consumer?

 

Overall, It's not right, yet the government does nothing... and you and I the average Joes, are the ones who pay the price. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer

[glirw]

This is simple economic theory folks , nothing to worry about .

 

Yes , China is getting stronger , and he U.S. will be soon , if not already outpowered , but this is not something we should REALLY worry about , but rather , should prepare for.

 

Every country specializes in what it does best. China for example has low wages and a communist regime , so they are perfectly suited for a primary industry , that is , manufacturing . This is good for them because it keeps all their billions of people busy and working .

 

We here in Canada have a primarily service economy , this is what we do best , that's the way it is .

 

Yes it's something that people should be aware of , but it is not crucial for our country's economy . Jobs will always be there for people to do , all the people have to do is get the right education for the jobs that are available . Now this can be inconvenient , especially for the boomers who have worked at one job their entire life , only to have that job outsourced later on . That's another trend going on in our generation : It is never too late to go back to school. Moreover, life-long jobs are just not as common anymore .

 

That's just the way she goes .

 

Tight lines!

[TennesseeGuy]

Part of Ford's solution is restoring bonuses to top level management. Yep, reward the guys who put them where they are.

 

Unions have become company killers in the U.S. auto industry.

[SHAD]

What's wrong with the N.A. Auto Industry, hmmmmm...TONS!

 

Today's consumer is alot different the last decade then it was 25-50 years ago. We are in the information age, word of mouth is not just what your neighbour or co-worker has to say anymore. The internet has made searching for a vehicle and finding vehicle reviews and consumer ratings at the click of a mouse. What this boils down to; is consumer loyalty.

 

I have owned 4 vehicles in the last 15 years. Of those 4 vehicles, one was a domestic, a 1987 Ford Tauras. This was my first vehicle and the last Ford I will ever buy. Since I've owned a Toyota Corrolla, Honda Civic SiR and currently own an Infinity QX4. I don't think all of these import vehicle's combined have cost me as much in maintenance/repairs as that one Ford Tauras did.

 

My point, N.A. manufacturers will continue to lose money in N.A. because there business model is not constructed around the consumer. Someone nailed it on the head in an earlier reply; N.A. manufacturer's have only a few staple models, they are constantly renaming a model or making a new model vehicle. Look at Honda, Toyota and Nissan - all three have at least two main 4 cyclinder cars and one or two main SUV/trucks and they don't change or rename these main vehicles; they continue to improve them.

 

I honestly believe that N.A. manufacturer's build vehicle's that are designed to fail the consumer after x amount of km's. That's just my belief but from my experience, I will never own a domestic vehicle the rest of my life (unless given to me or won, lol!).

 

I won't get into my opinion on Buzz or unions, that's for another day......

[Clampet]

When Ford goes under, I'll be celebrating.

[Headhunter]

I worked at the St Thomas assembly plant (FORD) for two summers, way back in the early 80's. As a summer student, who was very money hungry, I would accept any overtime offered. On average, I was TAKING HOME $600.00 per week! Not complaining at all, but that moeny had to come from somewhere.

Talking to some folks I know who have worked there for the better part of twenty years... husband and wife who work opposite shifts, their combined income annually is closing in on $200,000.00!!!!

Am I missing something?

My current job has me working with I.T. professionals, most of which have many years of post secondary education under their belts. They work hard to maintain their skills, either paid by their employer or by them selves. They don't make that kind of money... many not even close!

I know the level of skills it takes to work a line. The unions have created monsters! Add the pesnsions to that and it's not a wonder the big 3 are suffering.

When I worked at Ford, the motto was "Quantity is job one!

HH

[Terry]

I think Headhunter has hit the nail on the head..........

add the benefit package they have and there are nurses, cops, teachers, lawyers and more that envy the money auto workers get

[walleyejigger]

I think Headhunter has hit the nail on the head..........

add the benefit package they have and there are nurses, cops, teachers, lawyers and more that envy the money auto workers get

 

 

these are not "money making" areas of work (profits), where as the auto industry and such (in good years ) make billions in profits and in my opinion it is only fair to demand a share of that pie if they are making it on my back cause if they don't share with their employees they just get bigger bonuses, they would not be in any better shape as a company, the money would just get redirected, theses companies know how to play the numbers game, it's all in wording, if OFC lost billions in profits this year it would be bankrupt, why not these companies, because they've got trillions, the question u gotta ask is how they lost this money, they paid about the same amount in benefits and pensions and salary last year, i'm sure there was an increase but not billions, it comes down to other areas, whether it be opening new somewhere, or upgrading a plant, or bad investments, and i'm sure they know wayyyyy ahead of time (projections) that they are going to "lose" money in any given year,

 

it's like me buying a new truck and house this year, i could put out a press release saying the "walleyejigger corporation" lost $210 000 this year, well we all know that's not true i'll make payments on such, and these are investments, it's all in wording

 

anyways....... that's my rambling for awhile, hope it made some sense

 

 

i would not refuse a job cause it belongs to a union, even if i made more than a teacher etc.... and i would push my union to get me more,

 

my name is walleyejigger and i am a greedy dude, u better jump on the bandwagon before it's too late