Need a little mechanical help,please ! NF

[davey buoy]

It's a standard, bump start it.

I will tomorrow to get it on the ramps,bet it starts again right after lol.If I tap it and it starts,I will pull out and get fixed or replaced..Thanks.

[JoePa]

Just passing on some experience that I've had over the years - first take off the battery terminals and give them a good cleaning by brushing them with a tool make to clean them - often times the battery connections look good but there is a film between the cables and the battery posts -

 

When you hear the clicking the solenoid trying to close but it doesn't have enough juice to stay closed or it is bad - your battery may be weak - putting a volt meter on it won't tell you if it is in good shape - you can test the battery fluid if you can get at it - what I usually do to see if my battery is in good shape is put on the headlights and try starting the car - watch the lights - if the brightness really goes down the battery is weak - try jumping the battery with another battery in some other car while it is running -

 

Starters go bad but not that often - make sure that all wires leading to the starter are connected and sound - I bet your battery or its connections are the problem

[ketchenany]

Starter! had a Jeep and always had hammer in the back! Eventually a new stater will be needed.

[davey buoy]

Thanks again guys,just used the boosters,negative on battery to engine ground same thing.Lots of lights,horn,and everything else even when clicking.Just going to jack it up now to give the starter a poke .

Edited December 25, 2015 by davey buoy

[OhioFisherman]

Sounds like the starter, try taking a small hammer or big screwdriver and tapping on the cylindrical part of the starter, then turn the key.

Its likely its developed a flat spot and will need to be changed.

Tapping on it will get you to and from for a little while but eventually it will just give up.

 

1.) I haven't taken a starter apart in 45 years or so, things have probably changed?

 

The starters had motor brushes in them and they would wear, on small block chevy engines they were located on the rear end of the starter as I recall. It was pretty easy to take a length of pipe, wood, steel bar and put it on the back end of the starter and tap it while someone else was turning the key.

 

Back in the day you could buy a new set of stater motor brushes and springs at the auto parts store, they were easy to replace.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2015 by OhioFisherman

[davey buoy]

I gave her a few good taps with a 2x4,a few different times,nothing has changed.From the side,back,wherever I could get to she had a good knock.Battery terminals are very clean,solid connections.It's not in the best/easiest location to take out ,lol.

[Old Ironmaker]

I had to carry a spare starter in my 86 Jeep YJ. That thing ate starters because I could never get the timing right, yes yes yes, no no no, yes yes yes wurrrrrr. Ford ignition system, Chrysler engine Chev drive train or a combination of the above. What a Frankenstein of a vehicle, fun though if you had a good back and was 30 something.

 

Sounds like pooched starter Dave, nice Christmas present eh?

[misfish]

So how did you make out Dave? What was the issue?

[Freshtrax]

there's a good guy in alliston to rebuild starters in alliston we use him on tractor stuff all the time he is about half the price of a new starter generally. for get the name of the place but he is in behind napa near earl rowe park

[davey buoy]

Played with this truck over the holidays,tried taking off the starter ,not a chance from being on the ground.Changed battery again good for a couple days,start of the cold weather again,clicking.Decided tonight to buy a new battery,started right away.Did not spend as much time over the holidays to work on it as there was work and my CX7 for the most part just sits in the driveway.2008 and only 65.000km now lol..The only reason I thought the battery was not the problem was because I used the 75amp starting on my charger and that seemed not to make a difference?????.Not really sure why that would not start it,but I will be running it starting Thursday and go from there.Thank again for all your help,I pretty well tried everything you guys suggested.

[Sinker]

If the old battery will take a charge, it could be your alternator. In that case, your running off your battery, and it could very well let you down again.

 

S.

[TennesseeGuy]

Battery testers and multimeters make great Christmas presents. Cheap battery testers sometimes lie.

Getting a second opinion from a reliable battery tester at your favorite part's store is worth a trip. It's

free.

[davey buoy]

I have a great tester for my trade,It reads 14.7 running,so the alternator in my opinion is working fine.Just do not understand why the start charge would not fire it up. Really odd to me .Thanks guys for the extra info.

[aplumma]

You can use the meter to see what the voltage drop is when you try to start the battery. The best bet is to take the old battery and have it load tested if it fails then your problem is solved. If it passes the new battery might be just strong enough to possible mask a going bad starter motor.

 

 

Art

[davey buoy]

You can use the meter to see what the voltage drop is when you try to start the battery. The best bet is to take the old battery and have it load tested if it fails then your problem is solved. If it passes the new battery might be just strong enough to possible mask a going bad starter motor.

 

 

Art

Traded that one in Art,was 5 years old.This weekend when one of my sons are up,I will get him to start it and I will take a reading on start up.Thanks.Too add it starts so fast,maybe one crank if that,no hesitation.?.

Edited January 6, 2016 by davey buoy

[DRIFTER_016]

Traded that one in Art,was 5 years old.This weekend when one of my sons are up,I will get him to start it and I will take a reading on start up.Thanks.Too add it starts so fast,maybe one crank if that,no hesitation.?.

 

Sounds like you had a bad cell in the old battery.

[Bigfisherman]

Quick story had to change the starter in my 10 year old jeep 4 months ago, tried hitting it prior to taking it to the shop, mechanic tested and replaced starter also mention had to straighten out the heat shield since it had lots of hits lol.

 

I guess it wasn't the starter I was hitting while on the ground at the marina when the jeep died after pulling up the boat.

 

 

 

[DanD]

You can use the meter to see what the voltage drop is when you try to start the battery.

 

Art

 

Another type of voltage drop test that will test the cables and connections.

 

 

The diagram shows the meter connection points, to test the battery positive cable between the battery and the battery terminal of the starter solenoid.

With meter connected and the circuit idle (Everything off) the meter should show zero voltage or very near zero. If there is voltage present; then there is an open in the circuit. (Something not making a connection)

With the meter still connected the same way; attempt to crank the engine and take a meter reading.

You will seem voltage; but it should not exceed 1/4 (.25) of a volt, with the ignition in the crank position.

Any more then .25V and there is high resistance in the circuit; ether a bad cable of a corroded connection.

The same test applies to the negative side of a circuit; battery negative to starter case or engine main ground.

Usually resistance tests are performed with an ohmmeter; but in the case of large cables an ohmmeter can give you a false reading. For example a #6 gauge cable (typical starter cable size) is 3/4 rotted trough. An ohmmeter will still show every low resistance on an idle circuit; because the few strands that are not rotted are still making a connection. You cannot test a live circuit with an ohmmeter; not without letting the smoke out of the electronics or blowing the meter's fuse. The cable that tested good with the ohmmeter, is now asked to carry the approx 300 amps required to crank the engine; but this amperage cannot get passed the rotted section of cable; ending in a no crank or a strong click from the started solenoid.

A voltage drop test is a dynamic resistance test on a live circuit and will take all doubt out of cable and connection condition.

Sorry for the long post; didn't know a short way of explaining?

 

Dan.

[aplumma]

 

Another type of voltage drop test that will test the cables and connections.

 

Voltage drop.jpg

 

The diagram shows the meter connection points, to test the battery positive cable between the battery and the battery terminal of the starter solenoid.

With meter connected and the circuit idle (Everything off) the meter should show zero voltage or very near zero. If there is voltage present; then there is an open in the circuit. (Something not making a connection)

With the meter still connected the same way; attempt to crank the engine and take a meter reading.

You will seem voltage; but it should not exceed 1/4 (.25) of a volt, with the ignition in the crank position.

Any more then .25V and there is high resistance in the circuit; ether a bad cable of a corroded connection.

The same test applies to the negative side of a circuit; battery negative to starter case or engine main ground.

Usually resistance tests are performed with an ohmmeter; but in the case of large cables an ohmmeter can give you a false reading. For example a #6 gauge cable (typical starter cable size) is 3/4 rotted trough. An ohmmeter will still show every low resistance on an idle circuit; because the few strands that are not rotted are still making a connection. You cannot test a live circuit with an ohmmeter; not without letting the smoke out of the electronics or blowing the meter's fuse. The cable that tested good with the ohmmeter, is now asked to carry the approx 300 amps required to crank the engine; but this amperage cannot get passed the rotted section of cable; ending in a no crank or a strong click from the started solenoid.

A voltage drop test is a dynamic resistance test on a live circuit and will take all doubt out of cable and connection condition.

Sorry for the long post; didn't know a short way of explaining?

 

Dan.

Thanks Dan that is a great explanation of the volt drop test.

 

Art

[davey buoy]

Thanks Dan,I have booked marked your reply,I'm driving it now,300km today,May not be able to get to it till Sunday.Hope the battery was the only thing,but do want to do those checks.

[lovetofish]

If you have a test light... Check the trigger wire (the small wire) on the starter for power. If you have power when you turn the key to crank, it's a starter

[lovetofish]

If you have a test light... Check the trigger wire (the small wire) on the starter for power. If you have power when you turn the key to crank, it's a starter

[davey buoy]

I checked voltage to the starter from above,there was lots,bad cell in two good batteries I had I think was the problem.What would be the odds of that.376km today,second day,all is good still with new battery.Thanks.