hutch4113 Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Posted January 8, 2015 Some interesting articles from Wards - RE: Engine Tests. 3.0 Diesel - makes the top 10 list again for 2015 -> http://wardsauto.com/wards-10-best-engines/2015-winner-ram-30l-ecodiesel-dohc-v-6 Where is the "Eco" in Boost? http://wardsauto.com/wards-10-best-engines/where-s-eco-ecoboost
Old Ironmaker Posted January 8, 2015 Report Posted January 8, 2015 Art, avg 73 MPH towing a boat. Whoa Nelly. So that was you flying by me on the 400! So when you are doing the speed limit you make up for it by flying in the low 80's? Just can't wait to get there, I don't blame you. I never speed going home.
aplumma Posted January 8, 2015 Report Posted January 8, 2015 I actually am lucky I travel with my brother Joe and he would rather drive than ride. I usually drive for a few hours as he stretches but for the most part he is doing the majority of the driving. I use a good tire on the trailer and change them every 3 years as well as carrying a temperature sensor to spot issues on the truck as well as the trailer brakes and tires. Art
aplumma Posted January 8, 2015 Report Posted January 8, 2015 Some interesting articles from Wards - RE: Engine Tests. 3.0 Diesel - makes the top 10 list again for 2015 -> http://wardsauto.com/wards-10-best-engines/2015-winner-ram-30l-ecodiesel-dohc-v-6 Where is the "Eco" in Boost? http://wardsauto.com/wards-10-best-engines/where-s-eco-ecoboost I found your Eco boost for you. lol http://www.caranddriver.com/ford/f-150 Turbo charging by design is to increase the efficiency of a pump which is basically what an engine is. If you have a displacement of 3.5 at atmosphere pressure then add 28 lb of air pressure (2 atmosphere) you have doubled in theory the displacement to 7.0. Now with fuel, combustion rate and pressure variables as well as spooling the turbos you are actually loosing around 20% . The time that the turbo is spooled up in boost is in relation to the amount of fuel injected into the chamber. This is what causes people to find huge differences in their fuel economy a person who is slow to accelerate and holds a consistent speed will get much better gas mileage than jack rabbiting from down low and passing the slower people around them. What did Ford do then to make a 2.7 Eco Boost relevant to a large pickup? They made it spend more time at lower boost so the fuel map is less aggressive but when you put your foot into it you are using more fuel and more air pressure to make it jump. This has the potential to get a good MPG rating for people who drive the truck non aggressively and do not tow very often. There is a saying " There is no replacement for Cubic Inches" well that is true but Turbo charging will make cubic inches work harder and appear to double in size. Gas consumption is the down side of owning large vehicles if your life style does not require you to have one don't buy one if it does who cares if it uses gas doing the job it was designed for. Art
irishfield Posted January 8, 2015 Report Posted January 8, 2015 That's about right.. I tow my 2150 Baron with the cruise set at 122 kph. Non issue... well 'til Tybo blows by towing his Pro V at 135 ! lol
Joey Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 That's about right.. I tow my 2150 Baron with the cruise set at 122 kph. Non issue... well 'til Tybo blows by towing his Pro V at 135 ! lol
Old Ironmaker Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I actually am lucky I travel with my brother Joe and he would rather drive than ride. I usually drive for a few hours as he stretches but for the most part he is doing the majority of the driving. I use a good tire on the trailer and change them every 3 years as well as carrying a temperature sensor to spot issues on the truck as well as the trailer brakes and tires. Art I don't get out much anymore so I have no idea how and what temp sensor is used to spot issues. W5, who, what, when , where, why. Please advise. So as to not high jack this thread PM me if you deem necessary. You put more miles on your trailer in one trip than I will in 5 years. And it looks like Irishfeild is the other guy passing me with his cruise set at 122KMPH. I drive like an old lady I guess, actually I do now come to think of it and my lady tells me. That's it tomorrow I'm going to do 84 in an 80. Edited January 9, 2015 by Old Ironmaker
hutch4113 Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I found your Eco boost for you. lol http://www.caranddriver.com/ford/f-150 Turbo charging by design is to increase the efficiency of a pump which is basically what an engine is. If you have a displacement of 3.5 at atmosphere pressure then add 28 lb of air pressure (2 atmosphere) you have doubled in theory the displacement to 7.0. Now with fuel, combustion rate and pressure variables as well as spooling the turbos you are actually loosing around 20% . The time that the turbo is spooled up in boost is in relation to the amount of fuel injected into the chamber. This is what causes people to find huge differences in their fuel economy a person who is slow to accelerate and holds a consistent speed will get much better gas mileage than jack rabbiting from down low and passing the slower people around them. What did Ford do then to make a 2.7 Eco Boost relevant to a large pickup? They made it spend more time at lower boost so the fuel map is less aggressive but when you put your foot into it you are using more fuel and more air pressure to make it jump. This has the potential to get a good MPG rating for people who drive the truck non aggressively and do not tow very often. There is a saying " There is no replacement for Cubic Inches" well that is true but Turbo charging will make cubic inches work harder and appear to double in size. Gas consumption is the down side of owning large vehicles if your life style does not require you to have one don't buy one if it does who cares if it uses gas doing the job it was designed for. Art Good one...lol. That is one thing the Ward article said -- I don't think they got to test the engine with the Aluminum body. To bad they did not go all in, and use a better Transmission. The main reason the Diesel is so good - is the 8 Speed Transmission it is paired with - the two of them together is why it shines. Put it a 5 or 6 speed, and all of a sudden it is no longer as impressive. At any rate - I hate the term "eco" in anything - even the Diesel. But good for both RAM and Ford for trying something different. As for GM - I guess they will get to 2015 sometime...... (and yes that in jest - I don't really prefer one brand over the other - in fact I was anti RAM, until I test drove one). Edited January 9, 2015 by Tupelo
BillM Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 The 8spd combined with the diesel and keeping it at it's peak torque output as long as possible leads to the fantastic mileage those trucks gets. I can't wait until Ford/GMC start to offer a small displacement diesel in the half tonnes.
aplumma Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 I don't get out much anymore so I have no idea how and what temp sensor is used to spot issues. W5, who, what, when , where, why. Please advise. So as to not high jack this thread PM me if you deem necessary. You put more miles on your trailer in one trip than I will in 5 years. And it looks like Irishfeild is the other guy passing me with his cruise set at 122KMPH. I drive like an old lady I guess, actually I do now come to think of it and my lady tells me. That's it tomorrow I'm going to do 84 in an 80. To see what I am talking about see this link http://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Electrical-Tools-Accessories-Electrical-Test-Meters/Infrared-Thermometer/N-5yc1vZboffZ1z1180y The idea behind it is not so much to see what a temperature of each wheel or brake is since it changes with speed and temperature but to see if the other wheel on the opposite side is within 15% of the other side. That means the front left VS front right , rear L and R and trailer L and R. By reading the caliper thru the wheel openings you can spot a dragging brake pad. By reading the tire sidewall it will give you an indication if it is over heating from something as minor a a low pressure condition. Usually I also shot the hub of the trailer it will tell you if a bearing is seizing up. To check all 6 tires 2 hubs and 4 rotors is less than a minute with this tool. While I do not do this most of the time I drive I try to check the vehicles once or twice a month and so far it has helped spot a hung caliper and a dry set of bearings from a blown seal. Both would have been survivable on a road failure but when I am up North and heading into cottage country it can take a day or so to get the parts to fix. It is why I pack my bearings yearly and replace my tires on the trailer every three years no matter what the tread left is. Art
aplumma Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 Good one...lol. That is one thing the Ward article said -- I don't think they got to test the engine with the Aluminum body. To bad they did not go all in, and use a better Transmission. The main reason the Diesel is so good - is the 8 Speed Transmission it is paired with - the two of them together is why it shines. Put it a 5 or 6 speed, and all of a sudden it is no longer as impressive. At any rate - I hate the term "eco" in anything - even the Diesel. But good for both RAM and Ford for trying something different. As for GM - I guess they will get to 2015 sometime...... (and yes that in jest - I don't really prefer one brand over the other - in fact I was anti RAM, until I test drove one). I have owned Gas,Diesel,Turbo,Supercharged, 4x4, 2x4, 2 and 4 stroke over the years. All of them have had shining points and all have a bad side no matter who makes the vehicle. I have built motors that have been turbo, and supercharged and some have had their horse power doubled or better. With this said I prefer turbo engines both fuels work excellently and when driven correctly can get better mileage than non turbo engines. Gearing is another thing most people overlook, you can take a one horsepower engine and with gears move 1000 lbs not fast but it can be done. Maintenance is also very important to keep things working smoothly it will make any mechanical item work correctly and last longer. When I buy a vehicle I order it with lower gear sets and tow package for the cooling and the heavy up of key components to make it's work load easier to handle. With these actions I can make any manufacturers vehicle give me a long and happy life. Art
Fisherman Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 Hi Art: Todays trip at roughly 50-60 mph, gentle driving, empty, no towing, couldn't get any better than 14.2L/100km, whatever that works out to 16.5 MPG US...I believe that su...there's a vacuum.
aplumma Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Hi Art: Todays trip at roughly 50-60 mph, gentle driving, empty, no towing, couldn't get any better than 14.2L/100km, whatever that works out to 16.5 MPG US...I believe that su...there's a vacuum. You might want to get the ecu reflashed when I purchased mine in 2012 I did not get very good MPG (17 highway) a bulletin was sent out about water slugging from the cooler and they reflashed the ECU. it dropped my H.P. to 300 but I am not missing it at all. I also am running a 3.73 gear set which adds 500 RPM's so I should be getting worse millage than you. Right now I am at 17.0 MPG but the last tank has been short trips to town. Here is a link to a forum that has the TSB as well as a little discussion on what it has done for their trucks. http://www.f150forum.com/f70/computer-update-success-138353/index2/ Hope this helps the truck should be doing better than what you are getting from the info you have provided. Art
Fisherman Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Thanks, I'll let him know about this. Oh BTW, he's also noticed a vibration right around the 1100 rpm mark, something to do with torque converter balancing. Apparantely not uncommon. Edited January 10, 2015 by Fisherman
aplumma Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 A trip to the shop to have the ECU and the Transmission control Module read thru is in his future. Now a days a burned coil pack can make a car feel like the transmission is shuddering and hesitating when it is just a cylinder that is dropping out under load. Art
ecmilley Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 A trip to the shop to have the ECU and the Transmission control Module read thru is in his future. Now a days a burned coil pack can make a car feel like the transmission is shuddering and hesitating when it is just a cylinder that is dropping out under load. Art[/quote 99.9% of the time a misfire turns on the mil or flashes. Ecoboost is pretty much a turd for ford better of with the 5l di engine
aplumma Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 I actually own both an in line5 Mercedes as well as the eco boost F150. Both are very good vehicles and both have been stellar in durability and reliability. The offset of the additional cost as well as the cost of diesel fuel down here .90cents a gallon makes diesel less attractive. As far as the eco boost you can love them or you can hate them it will not change the way Ford is heading and if the eco boost technology is not for you then you have quite a few other options to chose from. It is kind of funny how different Mechanics in different areas have a favorite Brand and Engine. One garage I repair their plumbing at cringe when a Toyota comes in but everyone fights to work on the Honda. The mechanic that works on the Mercedes HATES the vehicle not because of the engine but because of the difficulty of getting parts in a timely manner. Art
Old Ironmaker Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 I have been destroying vehicles since I was 14. Have owned everything from Audi and Alfa to a 240Z and Zephyr. From micro cars, MGB, Triumph, Coopers to Caddy land barges and everything in between. Almost every brand truck manufactured including International Harvester and Range Rover. Each have their pluses and minuses. They say they don't make things the way they used to, thank goodness because the vehicles today are so much better engineered to last than then. I know I might get flack for this statement but I still say if you got to 100,000 miles in the 70's the body was most often rotten along with the frame where we lived. It's an argument we have regularly in the back yard garage. For reliability I'll take my wifes 3.5 liter close to 300 horse Altima with 350,000 kms over any car I had for everyday reliability. Sure not sexy, fast, actually it's scary fast, and can't take a corners apex like my Alfetta but has taken nothing more than regular maintenance. But then again she drives it not me.
ecmilley Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 Well art up here anyway the eco boost isnt returning the fuel mileage as expected and longevity of the turbos is a problem other than that its a f150. All trucks will work and all trucks have an Achilles heel being there is plethora of choice to build a truck that suits you. I work pretty much on everything and dont really see one sticking out as the clear leader
aplumma Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 I am torn on the mileage thing see while Ford statements of the MPG of the motor was exaggerated it is hard to blame it all on Ford. The MPG on a turbo can fluctuate quite a bit driver to driver and even to ambient temperature. If you buy a pickup to get good gas mileage then you need a truck/engine that is small displacement and tall gears. If you buy a truck to tow with then you need a big engine and shorter gearing which means less MPG. The EcoBoost is an attempt to meet the demands of both classes by basically making a variable displacement engine from the 3.5 to a 5.0 (14 lb Boost) engine. To me it is more important to fit the "tool" to the job meaning I tow heavy boats long distances and the trade off of having the ability to start run and stop with authority costs me more in fuel when I am not towing. People need to take these things into account when they critic a vehicle if someone complains that a truck gets poor fuel mileage but does not tell you it has a tow package with 3.73 gears they their comment has no validity. EC as a mechanic I value your input because it is based on what you have seen and had your hands on so your comments are supported by facts. The people I depend on to repair my vehicles when it is past my understanding/ tool availability have been very happy with what a well maintained Eco Boost engine and drive train runs like. I still feel no matter who makes your vehicle if you maintain it you will get a good and happy life from it. If you only make repairs you will never find a vehicle that makes you happy. Art
irishfield Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Well I learned today... that I can get 16.9 litres / 100 KM with my F150 x 5.0 coyote engine, in 4 wheel drive.... while towing a '98 GMC sierra on a tow dolly ;o) Edited January 12, 2015 by irishfield
scugpg Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 Tupelo or g.mech, how has the ecodiesel been starting this week and what's the warmup time like? Notice any big hit in l/100?
G.mech Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 Tupelo or g.mech, how has the ecodiesel been starting this week and what's the warmup time like? Notice any big hit in l/100? I finally picked mine up on Friday and it was quite cold both Friday and overnight Saturday. No issues starting whatsoever with the remote start, no smoke, no noise. It warms up very quickly and seems warm faster than the F150 did. I've only gone 200km so far and sat idling for long periods trying to figure out all the toys so it's kind of premature to judge fuel economy but it's averaged 10.1L/100km since I picked it up. I drove from Waterford to Hamilton today and it seems like it gets between 8.0 and 9.0 or so on the two lane highways but we'll see over time. It is a nice riding truck and has lots of nice features but it will take a bit of getting used to after 20+ years of Fords. I was flabbergasted to realize yesterday that the trailer towing package with all the bells and whistles doesn't include a trailer hitch.....go figure. The side mirrors are a huge improvement over the F-150 which I always hated.
John Bacon Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 Well I learned today... that I can get 16.9 litres / 100 KM with my F150 x 5.0 coyote engine, in 4 wheel drive.... while towing a '98 GMC sierra on a tow dolly ;o) Think positive. Between the two trucks you averages 8.45 litres / 100 km. Let's see Ecoboost beat that.
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