why are there so many part time jobs in Ontario

[Gerritt]

I work for a major manufacturer, as a fulltime employee. We have both contract (temp) and an outside contractor providing labour services. My experience differs from the many comments listed thus far in this thread...

 

Our hired temps (contract) seem to be those that are starting out in the workforce or returning from a long absence (returning to work after having kids etc) minimum highschool diploma required. They may not have the work skills/experience required but through testing, written tests and interviews if they are determined to be a fit within the company they are offered a 2 year renewable contract. Above minimum wage, benefits, 4% vacation pay, and the opportunity to prove themselves. They are company employees.

 

Then there are the outside workers we use....a lot do not have a highschool diploma, even in their mid to late twenties, a good number are retirees who are just looking for a part time job to help make ends meat in combination with their underfunded pensions... Some are bad apples that could not find work anywhere else... These are the ones vandalizing our bathroom stalls etc... Giving the rest of the hardworking folks they work with a bad name.

 

10 years ago I never pictured myself working in a factory for the worlds largest manufacturer, but all those years on the tools and my education prepped me for where I am now.

 

That said, I have nothing but respect for those that work for us for the outside contractor we use... They are some of the hardest working people in the plant. And the ones that do well get noticed and sometimes hired provided they have the education behind them.(highschool)

 

There still are some great places to work, and a ton of fulltime jobs available if you have the skill set and education behind you... We all start from the bottom up.

 

G

[outllaw]

We can thank our government. Taking a u.s.a. workers stance.Now we have achieved a down spiral. no benefits,pensions..with the hudak experience of right to work,that again will push folks farther backword.

do you remember when part time was basicly a students after school job. ..

think. if your in the workforce now-adays,will you ever be fortunate to actually retire.

I assume never..family dinner hour and sundays are a distant past.

[SHAD]

Part time is the norm is certain industries, not all. In the business sector it's not common, at least not that I have seen (15+ years and counting).

 

That being said, unless your in a union environment, any employer has the right to terminate you at any time, full time I am talking about, not part time.

 

Part time has it's perks but also it's cons, ie: lack of benefits (unless spouse has benefits).

 

Educate yourself as far as you can, get work in a service industry.

 

Paying the bills is important, full time welfare is for lazy losers.

[mike rousseau]

Part time means flexible manpower....

 

Lower grade benifits....

 

No layoffs.... They just reduce hours forcing some to quit or find second jobs... So to the public the companies save face....

 

 

Lots of part time is good for employers but bad for morale...

[mike rousseau]

Also part time helps eliminate overtime... Just give part time more hours instead....

[fishindevil]

I am a unionized full time worker and have been for 25yrs !!!! My employer gas tried many times to bring in temp workers and has so far not forced the issue and our union has now said they can come on as casual as long as when someone retires or whatever it leads to a full time position it has worked good !! But if our union was not there I know it would all be temp workers and just part time so it has worked so far and I'm glad our union had fought hard for that

[Old Ironmaker]

The part time issue is one of simple economics. As a former employer of both full and part time employees it is less expensive dealing with part time employees. The primary savings is in wages and benefits. They can be in the same workforce as employees receiving higher wages and zero benefits for the same work. And I could schedule them for 36 hours back in 07' and still maintain part time status. My administration costs were ridiculously lower than dealing with a full time employee. Whenever I had to dismiss a full time employee for just cause which was rare and not anything I ever would want to do again our labour lawyer would ask "Who did he kill?". A part timer has absentee problems or a lack of work ethic all I had to do is not schedule them for the next week, no questions asked.

 

Part timers are entitled to both vacation pay and stat holiday pay. I have had better partime employees than some full timers.

[Crazy Ivan]

Why do employers fear benefits?

In the jobs I've worked, I've always paid into a group insurance plan that looked after benefits for the employees.

[Steve]

so its pretty clear from this thread employers who hire p/t workers are benefiting themselves.

 

it's easier, cheaper, and allows you to be more 'flexible'.

 

i guess if that's what it takes to maintain open doors, it does benefit the full time workers (albeit how few there may be) at a shop as well.

 

its definitely a leading cause to the erosion of the middle class.

[Oggie]

Walmart -- simplistic analogy for where the jobs have gone.

A consumer shops for the lowest price for a product. A company shops for the lowest price to make the product. In 100 years or so, wages across the globe maybe harmonized, but until then, when someone in an undeveloped third world country will work for a year for the same salary a developed country worker is used to collecting in a day - before benefits, pension etc, this is will be the fallout.

Many countries that previously were manufacturing powerhouses are now service industry or technology. There is no middle class left.

I see my 36 year old son with two years of college in aquaculture working two jobs. One day job that pays well but only offers 20 hours a week and a night cleaning job that pays $12.60 but you work ungodly hours. It's taking a terrible toll on his family (wife and son) and his health. All this to make ends meet ..... not for the vacation to the Bahamas.

 

So the answer is to unionize the third world so that the developing countries demand reasonable wages for fair work. Right now employers are in the drivers seats but remember what comes around goes around and eventually workers will demand fair treatment. After 20 or more years of this crap employees won't be in a very good mood when it comes time to shove it to management.

 

I always though the 3 month probationary period was designed to sort the wheat from the chaff. Employers can release probationary employees with out probable cause. Not sure why we need 3 steps in between - temp agency, part-time then probationary. It guarantees many years at poor wages though!

 

 

Intersting discussion guys. Thanks for the info.

Dan O.

[irishfield]

Why do employers fear benefits Crazy Ivan??... a minimal plan for 80% dental and 100% drugs.. with a few other minimal perks like a whopping $300/yr for physiotherapy costs the employer $341 for family coverage and $172 for a single person PER MONTH. The 10 that I continue to cover in my facility costs me just over $3200 per month to do that, which = almost $40,000 a year.

 

I just can't imagine what OPSEU is making Ryerson University pay Sun Life per month for all their employees, like my daughter who gets100% dental coverage, 100% drug coverage, life insurance 2 x salary, 100% physio coverage, 10 massages a year etc. Jen's physio bill is $600 PER WEEK ! and they cover it.

 

So a single guy needs to look at benefits as about a $1.20 per hour worked. Quite possible you can find a direct route to benefits similar to blue cross to give you what you need. As for pension benefits, other than what you put away yourself you're on your own... unless of course you work for the public sector it seems these days.

Edited March 15, 2014 by irishfield

[bigugli]

As for pension benefits, other than what you put away yourself you're on your own... unless of course you work for the public sector it seems these days.

You got that right. IF your employer goes belly up, today, you have a fifty/fifty chance of your company pension also going teats up. The feds put in loopholes that allow an employer to borrow against their contributions to the plan. It sucks to find out your pension is worthless after paying in for many years. Had I known this back when, I would have opted out of my company pension. Edited March 15, 2014 by bigugli

[Roy]

I always chuckle when I read that whatever it is I want to buy is guaranteed by the government.

[spincast]

I always chuckle when I read that whatever it is I want to buy is guaranteed by the government.

Yeah - that's like the "Lifetime Guarantee". It breaks, you take it t the manufacturer, they so oh, that's the expected life of the product. Warranty expired.

[Gerritt]

Irish, I have the same deal through sunlife except my life insurance is higher and my wife also has life insurance under the plan @ 100k... Not sure the total cost to my employer, I pay just over a toonie every week. Sounds like Jen and I have very similar plans.

[danc]

You got that right. IF your employer goes belly up, today, you have a fifty/fifty chance of your company pension also going teats up. The feds put in loopholes that allow an employer to borrow against their contributions to the plan. It sucks to find out your pension is worthless after paying in for many years. Had I known this back when, I would have opted out of my company pension.

Trade union pension contributions are paid weekly by the employer and are in direct control of the employee and union after that. That's the way it should be with all pensions instead of hoping that the money will be there when you retire. This should be law.

[Steve]

until your union screws you out of your money because their membership is reducing year by year, and more money is being paid out of it than going into it....

[Oggie]

And that can happen easily Steve if the investment markets aren't returning anything on investments. Everyone likes the low interest rates except those that are retired and looking for a return on invested money.

 

What ever happened to 7% interest on investments? That seemed to be the return on money throughout most of my youth. Now you can't get 3% unless you go long term and a large sum. Hard to be retired on that investment.

Dan O.

[Maverick]

As some have said, it is the transition into a service centered economy. Those who serve will have mostly part time jobs making at or close to minimum wage and those who operate the service making significantly more. Eventually the middle class will shrink to the point of no return. The government isnt helping though, striking deals for free trade and reduced tarrifs on goods we import. The issue with this is that they are negotiating with countries that pay their workers fractions of what our minimum wage is. Just look at the Korea deal that just happened. Do you think Kia pays their workers $30/hr, I doubt it. And Chrysler has the Ontario government over their knee saying basically give us an exorbenent amount of money or we're moving to Mexico. The government has no choice because it's not only the Chrysler employees that will take a hit, it's all the suppliers and local economy as well. Soon the majority of manufacturing jobs will be eliminated in Canada. Next thing you know Canadian workers will be training their foreign replacements, wait a second...

[outllaw]

yes the chrylser jobs amount to over 100 thousand jobs. sadly mr harper once again bends to comfort asia.

how about us canadiens???. my kids need paying jobs.

[BillM]

yes the chrylser jobs amount to over 100 thousand jobs. sadly mr harper once again bends to comfort asia.

how about us canadiens???. my kids need paying jobs.

 

Then make sure they get an education..

[Headhunter]

Well, as the owner of an employment agency, I could probabaly answer some of the questons being raised here...

Employees are paid out of either operating or capital budgets. A full time employee is a recurring cost, who's costs are budgeted within the company's operating budget, unless and until that budget is amended, those costs are expected.

Temp workers fall into a separate budget that is typically based on specific need, that is not expected to be long term. Sure, in many cases it does end up being long term, but that is typically not the intention initially.

A company can expect a full time perm employee's "benefit package" to cost them in the neighbourhood of 10k annually. I many cases, much more. Temps typically don't have those costs associated with their positions.

Letting go of perm full time employees is expensive, given the courts willinigness to pay out large sums with or without cause...

Temp employees allows companies to ramp up production quickly, should busness require it, without the associated "costs" involved in a full time perm employee. Temp workers are also "the cost of doing business" and much of those costs become right offs for the employer.

I know I'm just craping the surface of this topic, if you have any questions, let me know!

HH

[outllaw]

bill m. the kids nowadays need college at least and the testing system for application in any big 3 manufacturing co. is tuff. long long gone are the days of grade 8 and working in auto factories...there was a time emploers stated your over educated for the work. now-adays young folks struggle WITH education to get wal-mart type jobs.. if our leaders accepted canadiens are smart folks ,willing to build Canada,maybe they could protect our economy. Not give it away to offshore businesses.

[Oggie]

I often wonder how compromised are our leaders (including Harper)? Every decision they make seems to benefit the large corporation and in tern squeeze the working class. Are governments really running our countries any more or is it the corporations running things through our governments? How did we survive years ago before we started into this downward spiral called FREE TRADE. It's anything but FREE just look at our working conditions. We're paying the price for the FREE TRADE deal Mulroney signed.

 

What would happen if we opted out of FREE TRADE deals? I realize we'd be forced to do without many things until our industries started to ramp up and produce goods for domestic consumption. Is that even possible given how far down the road we've travelled?

Dan O.

[BillM]

bill m. the kids nowadays need college at least and the testing system for application in any big 3 manufacturing co. is tuff. long long gone are the days of grade 8 and working in auto factories...there was a time emploers stated your over educated for the work. now-adays young folks struggle WITH education to get wal-mart type jobs.. if our leaders accepted canadiens are smart folks ,willing to build Canada,maybe they could protect our economy. Not give it away to offshore businesses.

 

I agree the days of signing up at GM when you were 19 and working until you were 60 are over.. The last time I checked, Walmart didn't require a college degree, only a high school diploma... I've found a lot of the recent university grads (Especially in the IT field) are way too entitled.. Thinking they should be walking into 80K+ a year jobs right out of school with zero experience... Gotta start at the bottom like everyone else..