Not Something You'd Expect To See in Ontario...

[Dontcryformejanhrdina]

Last night, my mom (who lives in the Bancroft area (past Paudash right on Hwy 28 to be exact) was going to take her dog outside (miniture poodle) before heading to bed, but her dog was scared of something and refused to go outside to go pee. Well not long after that my mom hears weird noises and her neighbour who lives right behind her phones her and lets her know that two mountain lions were fighting in his driveway right down the hill behind her place. She saw them (could only see the shape of them at night and obviously wasn't going to try to get very close lol) fighting with each other and making terrible noises. She said they were huge, looked like two adult males by the size of them. It's a little disconcerting that she could have been outside with a nice little snack on a leash just moments before.

[Sinker]

I don't doubt that for a second. That would have been cool to witness!!

 

S.

[Cast-Away]

I think you neighbour saw Cougars. Mountain Lions aren't found in eastern Canada.

[Muskieman]

^^^^ same animal , Bigfoot is called Sasquatch out west. .

[Dontcryformejanhrdina]

I think you neighbour saw Cougars. Mountain Lions aren't found in eastern Canada.

 

That's like arguing walleye/pickeral. I said mountain lion because I have seen LOTS of cougars in my lifetime.

 

[Old Man]

Cougar, Puma, Mountain Lion all the same.

[BillM]

Probably a pair of Atlantics.

[Dontcryformejanhrdina]

I bet the sound of them going at it would make the hair on the back of your nect stand up. Listening to house cats fight is an annoying enough noise lol.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Dontcryformejanhrdina

[Christopheraaron]

Probably a pair of Atlantics.

LMAO! Must've been a cool sight, but how comfortable is she letting her snack outside now?

[Dontcryformejanhrdina]

She's had a wolf, Bears, moose all in her front yard in recent years. I think I'm more nervous about it than she is lol.

[John Bacon]

I heard of one being spotted on the ice on Baptiste Lake years ago.

[Whitespinnerbait]

Not something You'd Expect to see in Ontario ????????.............according to a lot of folks, theres thousands and thousands of Cougars roaming around in ONTARIO !!!

[HTHM]

Not something You'd Expect to see in Ontario ????????.............according to a lot of folks, theres thousands and thousands of Cougars roaming around in ONTARIO !!!

Yeah and I'm married....*sigh*

[Toad Hunter]

That's like arguing walleye/pickeral. I said mountain lion because I have seen LOTS of cougars in my lifetime.

 

oh you went there huh ? nothing frustrates me more than the "pickeral" people catch this far off the east coast - but as for the thread topic.. I don't doubt the cougar sighting in Ontario.. back in my single days, I had to fight many off while I roamed the Bars of the Tri cities

[Ice Fishing Ham]

The following article was published in the The Bancroft Times March 22 2012. I contacted the author Barry Hendry for an e-copy and permission to post it. He was quite pleased at the interest in his article and granted me permission along with the Times publisher/owner Dave Walker.


The author asked to add the following paragraph before his article.

Since 2004 I have written 3 or 4 articles a year on puma sightings around Bancroft and on two separate sightings right in the town (one tan, one black). Most articles covered multiple sightings. I began by working with Stuart Kenn of the Ontario Puma Foundation who read my first 2004 story about a tawny, adult puma walking on the ice of Marble Lake 3 km south of Bancroft. Stuart assisted the local MNR and I in setting up the first hair trap up here in 2004 and he and I set up a second one near L'Amable Lake in '05 or '06. I checked my map today and there are 39 sightings pinpointed on it which does not include sightings from the past 3 years. I estimate I have logged over 50 sighting calls and been at the scene of most of those. As I recall, about one third of them were big black cats, one of which the father and son who watched it each swore it was a black panther because its teeth were longer. They watched it fight their dog for 10 minutes from 10 meters away before the cat gave up and ran off.

regards,
Barry Hendry




MNR Releases Cougar Study
by Barry Hendry


The Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources' lead cougar investigator Dr. Rick Rosatte released a nine page cougar study on March 16, the culmination of four years of research.
His key conclusion will validate the reports of many rural residents who have been lucky enough to spot these elusive big cats in and around Bancroft.


Quoting Rosatte, "The present study confirms the presence of Cougar in Ontario."
Rosatte states that one reason for the study was the increase in sightings in Ontario since the 1930s. From 1935 to 1983 there were 189 "credible sightings" of the total of 318 reports. From 1950 to 1959 there were 28 sightings, then it jumped to 103 from 1980 to 1983. The Ontario Puma Foundation (OPF) reported it had received 500 sighting reports from 2002 to 2006.


Rosatte's admission that puma are here did not come with a conclusion of how these cats arrived here. He noted the possibility of a resurgence of a remnant population that outlasted the apparent decimation of puma here. Then he surmised they could have come from Manitoba or the northeastern United States. He also notes that some cats could be escaped or released exotic pets. He supports this latter statement with his opinion there are "likely a few hundred cougars in captivity", but this number, he said is "unknown" and the study did not attempt to determine the validity of the opinion.
Large cat owners and zoo keepers, of course, dispute the likelihood that responsible owners would ever release an animal into the wild since it would amount to cruelty and be, at least, negligent.


Finally he states, "In my opinion the majority of cougars in Ontario are most likely a genetic mixture of escaped/released captives (or their offspring), immigrants (or their offspring) and/or native animals." Neither did the study determine what subspecies of cougar is existent here. That would require a DNA study using samples taken with darts from captured or treed cats and a huge amount of research money.


There are six subspecies of puma and it is generally believed that there is one of those that is resident to North America. Rosatte suggests that such a study would prove inconclusive because of the possible mixture of animals in the population.
He does conclude, however, "If one agrees with there being one subspecies of cougar in North America, then it does not really matter whether a specific cougar is a ‘captive’ North American genotype or a ‘wild’ free ranging genotype, in terms of managing this species in Ontario. "What is important is that there are ‘free ranging’ North American genotype cougars in Ontario that have originated from an unknown combination of released, escaped, native or dispersing animals."


The study's author backs up these long awaited and remarkable conclusions of the existence of cougars with 497 pieces of evidence collected between 1991 and 2010, most of which were collected during his study period from 2006 to 2010. Also remarkable is the fact that the largest sampling of evidence (295 pieces) came from southeastern Ontario, a territory described with borderlines from Oshawa to Parry Sound over to Cornwall and Pembroke. In fact, the southeast produced the highest number of each type of evidence. Rosatte's opinion on this anomaly is that it "is likely a reflection of the reporting system than of cougar density." He explained that detailed records of sightings were not available for all areas of the province and in the more remote areas sightings may have been reported but not tabulated.


Class 1 evidence included tracks, DNA from scat, hair or photographs.
One photograph from the Orillia area appears in the report, but it was determined to be "consistent with a cougar", not a conclusive piece of evidence.
In that case The President of the Ontario Puma Foundation (OPF) Stuart Kenn investigated and he determined the photo was authentic. Kenn and the OPF are acknowledged by Rosatte for assistance during the study. The Bancroft Times is aware that the OPF provided numerous pieces of evidence to the MNR when this study began and Kenn often consulted on track identification and analysis. A second photograph taken in the Gowganda area was also less than scientific and deemed to be "consistent with a cougar."Rosatte, along with the 89 MNR biologists or wildlife technicians in the MNR's internal "Cougar Network" tried hard to get a conclusive photograph using multiple digital trail cameras all over Ontario. They logged 17,000 "camera-nights" between April 2008 and December 31, 2010. They took 154,736 photos of every native animal, except the elusive "ghost cat", the cougar or puma. The study did acquire one infrared image from a trail camera that was "morphologically similar to a cougar."


The Class 2 evidence included sightings by trained witnesses such as biologists and these totaled seven in the study period and 13 in total from 1994 to 2010. This number gives insight into previously unknown records. Nine of the 13 were in the south east.


Class 3 evidence were sightings by "knowledgeable" members of the public, of which there were 463 between 1991 to 2010 with 82 per cent of them logged during the four year study. Again, the highest number of these sightings were in southeast Ontario at 278."


Rosatte even included the anomaly of the equally elusive big black cats which people around here seem to see in 30 per cent of the reported sightings. This study logged 52 "credible 'black cougar' sightings" between 1991 and 2010 and 27 of them were in the southeast. Rosatte's own research could not find "any records or published literature documenting the capture, killing or photographing of black cougars in North America." He did note that "a few black cougars were found in South America during the 1700s."
Rosatte's study for the MNR is the most extensive one ever conducted in Ontario. It was done in conjunction with the Wildlife Research and Development Section at Trent University. The nine page report is in the current edition of the Canadian Field-Naturalists magazine.

 

[Ice Fishing Ham]

Ontario Puma Foundation web sight

 

 

http://www.ontariopuma.ca/sightings.htm

[solopaddler]

That's incredible. Equal parts amazing and a bit scary for your mom.

 

 

On a related note I managed to snap this pic of two cougars mauling an unsuspecting geek recently. It was chilling. (sorry I had to go there. )

 

[Moosebunk]

I don't doubt that for a second. That would have been cool to witness!!

 

S.

 

Exactly Shane.

 

 

Nice Mike. lol.

[Harrison]

I don't doubt that for a second. That would have been cool to witness!!

 

S.

Nor I Shayne. I have never seen one, but a good friend I trust whole heartly swears he has up in the Soo area.

[Sinker]

I have a couple stories as well. I think they are more prevalent than most would think.

 

S.

[TJQ]

That's incredible. Equal parts amazing and a bit scary for your mom.

 

 

On a related note I managed to snap this pic of two cougars mauling an unsuspecting geek recently. It was chilling. (sorry I had to go there. )

 

Poor poor Geeky Guy with Glasses...

[misfish]

Poor poor Geeky Guy with Glasses...

 

That could of been you.

[SirWhite]

 

I think you neighbour saw Cougars. Mountain Lions aren't found in eastern Canada.

Lol

Edited May 16, 2013 by SirWhite

[67ZL1]

About 10 years ago I was visiting family in the Perth area and on the way to the airport we had one cross Hwy 7 right in front of us. It was black and easily 8 ft long with it's tail stretched out. It's pretty rare to see a cougar. I suspect they must be following the food source.

[cityfisher]

Weird how noone can produce a good trail cam pic of one ..... Im sure there are a couple hunfred setup in the bancroft area alone.

All i get on mine are .. deer... bear...turkeys..yotes.. but im setup in the cocyconk area.