NF - Are we allowed to talk NHL hockey again?

[jedimaster]

Has everyone been following allong? Wow I was actually optimistic when I heard Fehr tonight. Then I heard Bettman come up and say flat out. "We will make a proposal and they either take it in whole or there is no deal". Then he goes on to say how the owners are trying to negotiate. That doesn't sound like negotiating to me. Oh well. I guess that is the death blow, no NHL for the year. Sounds like decertification is where its going to head, I guess I gotta start following the Raptors.

Edited December 7, 2012 by jedimaster

[workwear]

ive always wondered what would happen if the nhlpa would de-certify

[kickingfrog]

Posturing and lies.

[Nipfisher]

The Great One says there will be NHL hockey this month....I'm gonna try and believe him.

[jedimaster]

I have zero optimism now. I was following allong on a daily basis, not that i could get away from it, as thats all they talk about on the radio and on TV but I guess this is it. Put a knife in her. Gretzky also said that a deal woul dbe done and no games would be lost. He is living in a dream world unfortunatly.

[DRIFTER_016]

http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=647183&navid=DL%7CTOR%7Chome

 

 

Statement From Larry Tanenbaum, NHL Governor And Chairman of MLSE

 

Thursday, 06.12.2012 / 8:47 PM / News

 

 

“I was pleased to be asked to join the Player/Owner negotiation sessions. I had hoped that my perspective both as a businessman and as one of the owners of the Toronto Maple Leafs would be helpful to the process. Like all other teams, this work stoppage has hurt our fans, our employees and our business. Neither the owners nor the players will ever recover the losses incurred with this work stoppage.

 

I understand how important it is to have a strong league and 30 healthy teams. I must admit that I was shocked at how things have played out over the last 48 hours. The sessions on Tuesday felt cooperative with an air of goodwill. I was optimistic and conveyed my optimism to the Board of Governors at our Wednesday meeting. However, when we reconvened with the players on Wednesday afternoon, it was like someone had thrown a switch. The atmosphere had completely changed. Nevertheless, the owners tried to push forward and made a number of concessions and proposals, which were not well-received. I question whether the union is interested in making an agreement.

 

I am very disappointed and disillusioned. Had I not experienced this process myself, I might not have believed it. Like all hockey fans, I am hopeful this situation can be resolved as soon as possible. I miss our game.”

[DRIFTER_016]

GO OIL KINGS!!!!!!

[jedimaster]

I am not sure why the Owners keep calling it negotiations. Negiations are usually two way. Side A makes an offer, Side B counters that offer, Side A counters again and so on until a deal is met somewhere in the middle. So far all I have heard from Bettman and the owners is here is our offer, take it or leave it, we will not entertain any counter offers, if you refuse our offer then the deal is off the table.

 

Right or wrong, Lockout vrs Strike, good deal or bad deal, that is no way to negotiate. I don't think anything is gonna happen until next year after the season is lost... Hopefully by then Bettman and Fehr are both googling workopolis looking for new jobs. There is just too much bad blood between the Players and Bettman it seems.

[kickingfrog]

Playing professional sports isn't a normal job.

[Freshtrax]

Decertify already .

 

Best thing for Toronto hockey since 67

 

 

" I want a bald eagle in the dressing room"

 

"We're not giving you one"

 

" Toronto said I could have a bald eagle, and they said he would have his own stall and everything"

 

 

 

 

 

The small market teams would go out of business , we would be back down to 20 teams. So what like California needs 3 teams. And Vegas needs a team like I need a hole I'm my head,

[BillM]

Screw the NHL, I'm looking forward to Dec 26th and the Juniors!!!!

[bare foot wader]

Boss offers terms, you can accept or look for work elsewhere.

 

well that depends on the industry you work in and your position/relationship to the business processes

 

counter offers when giving notice are pretty common

 

 

I'm not missing the NHL this time around and personally support the players 100%

 

the juniors are going to be even more special this year

[glen]

I forgot all about hockey. But since you bring it up is Bettman getting close to being fired.

I hope the players start up there own league.

[Whitespinnerbait]

Playing professional sports isn't a normal job.

 

:worthy:

[jedimaster]

I have negotiated back fourth in many places. If an employer was negotiating with me and said here is the deal take it or leave it. I would leave it. That's not negotiating at all. And I agree, I just don't get why people try and compare pro sports to normal life. When the cbc comes to your work to put you on national tv doing your job and millions of people pay to watch you work then I would also support you in your negotiation for a contract.

[bushart]

Contracts must be different for pro sports

 

An average working career goes for decades while a pro sports players shelf life is considerably smaller

 

Making Hay while the sun shines to the max

[ecmilley]

good thing the fish don't go on strike

[Jds63]

still miles apart

 

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/article/1298936--nhl-lockout-putting-on-a-show-rather-than-doing-a-deal-cox

 

Taken from above article...

___________________________________

So where are we actually? Closer to a deal? Well, close on some issues, and still a ways apart on others, difficult ones. The key issues appear to be limits on the length of contracts — the league wants five years, the players offered eight — and the term of any new collective bargaining agreement. The league wants a 10-year deal — most fans do, as well — while Fehr’s contention is anything longer than five or six is unreasonable.

_______________________________________

[jedimaster]

The players offered an 8 year CBA with an opt out at 6, the league offered 10 years with an opt out at 8. To me that is REALLLY close. The league should come back to the PA's offere with a 9 year with an opt out at 7. But they won't Bettman doesn't want to negotiate. We wants to write the deal up from start o finish take it or leave it.

To me that sounds very unreasonable.

 

Think about it this way. You will work in your career for 30 or 40 years. The NHL its 6 years(well 5.6 but lets round up...

If you were part of a negotiation process would you want to lock terms for 50 or 60 years? That seems unreasonable to me. How can anyone possibly predict where the NHL will be in 10 years. Will there be contraction, expansion, how many teams will be relocated or bancrupt in that time? It doesn't matter what the salary cap is or how long the deals are, some teams will never make money. To me it makes sense to match longest contract term with the term of the CBA.

 

9 year CBA with 6 year opt out,

 

6 year max contract with 9 year max if resigned as a ufa to the same team.

 

Those number fall in between what the NHL offered and what the PA offered. Thats what negotiating is, finding a middle ground that both parties can live with.

 

No different than one of us selling a fishing real.

 

What if I put an Ad up for a Shimano Stella that said

 

NIB Shimano Stella STL1000 FE 700 dollars willing to negotiate - OBO

 

You emailed me and said I'll give you 600

 

I emailed you back and said no its 700 take it now or I am going to pull my 700 off the table and raise the price to 750 dollars and I won't let you use it until next summer.

 

Chances are good you would tell me to piss off.

 

Now this is afishing thread so this should keep it alive for a while.

[blaque]

Weve created these monsters....no one but ourselves to blame.

 

Theres a bit of a disconnect from reality when you see this kinda stuff:

 

Heres his summer home:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMdEDt-B3O0

 

Totally "unfair" for a 17 goal scorer last year and 10 the year before.

[camillj]

OK ... I suggest we poll ALL the juniors (and the players)...NOT the UNION ... and ask them if they wanna play Hockey for a living ... get their shot at fame and fortune ... play for 5 years (with an option for another 5 if they perform) ... ask them if they could live on a million a year plus expenses (plus endorsements) .... first/best 1000 to sign up get in ... best 500 get to play ... other 500 play for 50% in the minors ... best 50 performers get 2 Million, next best 250 get 1.5 million ... lowest 10 percent get bumped down to the minors to give the next crop a chance ... stop screwing around and get on the ice ... or get to the back of the line - or go do something else for a living - so the other 1,000,000 hopefuls get their shot.

 

Let's face it .. the guys who finally 'make it' ARE getting THEIR dreams fulfilled ... and a very lucrative (if short) career ... they're not doing it for us or for the owners ... come on - these guys come and they go ... and we always take whoever comes along next (and have been for generations)

 

On the flip-side its up to the owners to figure out how to make that financially sustainable ... its NOT a partnership ... its not a negotiation ... and if some of the players have become THAT rich that they can afford to buy a team (or shares in a Team) and are prepared to take the RISK (by the way it would be interesting to ask the few players who have done so whether it was a such great investment) - ONLY THEN would they have the right to their share of the profits (or Losses) ... getting to play is an opportunity at fame and fortune for a very fortunate few... and I'll bet ya most would do it just for the fame if thats all there was on the table

 

IMHO it's time for everyone to get off their high-horse and get back to reality.

 

GO LEAFS !!!!! (or should I say .. COME BACK LEAFS !!!)

[John]

Quite frankly I'm happy with minor hockey and looking forward to world juniors. Other than that I really couldn't care less.

[blaque]

OK ... I suggest we poll ALL the juniors (and the players)...NOT the UNION ... and ask them if they wanna play Hockey for a living ... get their shot at fame and fortune ... play for 5 years (with an option for another 5 if they perform) ... ask them if they could live on a million a year plus expenses (plus endorsements) .... first/best 1000 to sign up get in ... best 500 get to play ... other 500 play for 50% in the minors ... best 50 performers get 2 Million, next best 250 get 1.5 million ... lowest 10 percent get bumped down to the minors to give the next crop a chance ... stop screwing around and get on the ice ... or get to the back of the line - or go do something else for a living - so the other 1,000,000 hopefuls get their shot.

 

Let's face it .. the guys who finally 'make it' ARE getting THEIR dreams fulfilled ... and a very lucrative (if short) career ... they're not doing it for us or for the owners ... come on - these guys come and they go ... and we always take whoever comes along next (and have been for generations)

 

On the flip-side its up to the owners to figure out how to make that financially sustainable ... its NOT a partnership ... its not a negotiation ... and if some of the players have become THAT rich that they can afford to buy a team (or shares in a Team) and are prepared to take the RISK (by the way it would be interesting to ask the few players who have done so whether it was a such great investment) - ONLY THEN would they have the right to their share of the profits (or Losses) ... getting to play is an opportunity at fame and fortune for a very fortunate few... and I'll bet ya most would do it just for the fame if thats all there was on the table

 

IMHO it's time for everyone to get off their high-horse and get back to reality.

 

GO LEAFS !!!!! (or should I say .. COME BACK LEAFS !!!)

 

Perfect

[fishing n autograph]

NHL hockey is slowly dying.

[asdve23rveavwa]

NHL hockey is slowly dying.

 

 

Yup, and, they have only themselves to blame. Bring on the world juniors!!