My little rant NF

[Fisherman]

I'm sure most have heard or watched the program called "Hells Kitchen", I now have my own version I call the "Kitchen from Hell". Back in mid September the wife and I decided it was time for a kitchen makeover, 27 years of the same original cabinets, they were worn out. Take a look and ask around for some advice and decided to go with the local company and support our area workers. We go in, check out the model kitchens, speak with the the lady, she'll come out in a couple days, do some measuring and give us a ball park total.

This is for upper and lower cabinets, small eat in counter and two panels to replace the two that enclose the wall oven and d/w. I have a counter top stove. My fridge located at one end of the counter cannot move left due to a hot air floor register(important point). My wall oven and d/w sit inside a 2x4 frame cage from floor to ceiling, strong like bull(important point).

A couple days later, the lady comes by to measure, she is told point blank, the fridge does not move, see the hot air register, she understands and says yes. She is shown the frame cage that holds the wall oven and d/w, it only needs a new front and side panel to match the new cabinets, yes I understand. About a week later she comes by with a "person in training" for the final measuring and then will make a computer "picture" of what it's going to look like. The person in training decides, I'm going to move my fridge over the hot air register and move this and that, etc. I gave her the evil eye, told her unconditionally, NO, the fridge stays where it sits. Another couple days go by, the first lady comes back alone with the computer mock up. First thing I told her, your sidekick needs an attitude adjustment, don't ever bring her back. So we agree on the price, contract signed. The products should come in a couple weeks, we were led to believe the second week of November before I go to hunt camp on the 22nd of Nov. Well, they're a little "tardy" to say the least, I was responsible to remove the old counters, cabinets and panels that surround the wall oven and d/w. No problem, all done.

They deliver during the week of the 15th, wife calls at work and says, I don't think you're going to like what has arrived. Uh oh, get home, my measuring tape comes out. I have a counter that's 98" x 32" and an extra little piece about 18" wide. I need a counter 94" x 77", all one piece, those idiots didn't read the plans/instructions and figured I had a 30 inch stove/oven, I don't, I have a 30" counter top cook stove, I need the whole counter top, STRIKE 1. Just the length of the 98" counter would mean the fridge would end up sitting over top of the hot air register..NOT. Then there's this "big box" thing on the floor, 8' long x 27" x 25", 3 sided that is supposed to hold my wall oven and d/w, STRIKE 2. Remember the two "important points" from above, apparantely nobody looks at plans or pays attention. Start measuring cabinets, oh joy, they decided I'm moving my kitchen walls too 'cause the damm cabinets won't fit either. Strike 3. Call her up, bring your plan and come look at this. She comes, looks, remeasures and can't believe that "Tweedle Dee" the person that makes the mock up computer picture decided to "change" things without consultation. Well, the corner upper and adjacent cabinets fit, the installer comes by puts them up, (he can't believe it either) he gets paid by the job(more on that later), not how many times he has to come back. Now their delivery/pick up is behind and she asks if I can take the cabinets and "the box contraption" back to the office, she'll take $100 off the bill. Sure I say, it's only 3 km from home.

Now comes the fun part, I'm off to hunt camp, no counter top stove or sink for the wife, only the wall oven that I hooked back up and microwave, real nice eh?

Back from hunt camp, wait another week, cabinets come back resized, installer comes back late on a Saturday afternoon and manages to install them and the 2 panels(front and side) for the wall oven and d/w. Then he goes to install the valance between cabinets in front of the window, measure, measure, cut, oh damn, too short. Then he goes to install the upper "bull nose" trim between the ceiling and top of the upper cabinets. Measure, cut 45's for the corners, I don't know, maybe his chop saw is drunk, they're more like 40's and 50's, great gaping cracks, oh we'll just fill them with DAP, oh darn, don't have any with me. STRIKE 4, where I come from DAP is the sign of a non professional(within reason). It looks like an old beaver with bad dentures tried to install the molding. So I call her up, mention the shortcomings, along with finding a drawer that hasn't been put together, missing the "plugs" that hold the drawer face to the side panels. Oh ya, holes for the handle also in the drawer face are "missing" a.k.a. not made. Then there are the cabinet doors, 8 of them have what is best described as black scuff marks on the surface and edges, I've tried some products to remove them but it appears on close inspection that they came pre scuffed (how nice of them) and they applied the satin finish right over them. What STRIKE are we at now? Oh ya #5.

Now some of you will know and understand how to adjust cabinet hardware, the hinges usually have allowance for up/down, front/rear and slight "tilt" adjustment. The factory monkeys must be getting far too many bananas, I could adjust some one way, but not enough to aline all the doors evenly, placement of hinges is critical, not hap hazard. She was made aware of that too.

I still don't have a counter, no place to put my sink, nothing to cook on except an old 600 watt hot plate, (I've got a big 2 burner coleman for outside if I really get cranked) but I don't think I should be cooking outside in mid December. Come Wednesday it will be 6 weeks with no counter, no sink and no stove in sight, Christmas is less than a week away.

Saturday morning I gave her the ultimatum, either the counter is installed by Tuesday 21st at 4 pm or don't bother coming back.. period.

Do you think I am being a bit harsh?

Hope this wasn't too long and nobody has fallen off their chair and injured themselves.

 

 

I also found out at the barber shop(best place to get local news) I'm not the only one suffering with this company.

[HTHM]

I would have one heck of a time writing another cheque.

[Terry]

and crap like that is way to common these days

[DRIFTER_016]

I hope you still owe them a ton of $$$$.

'Cause I would tell them it's either right or you don't get another cent out of me.

There are a ton of useless fools out there and this is just another example.

[bigugli]

Not a lot of truly reputable tradesmen out there any more. The last subdivision I oversaw, we had to replace nearly all of our trades more than once in a 2 year period. The good ones don't work for cheap either.

[Fisherman]

I hope you still owe them a ton of $$$$.

'Cause I would tell them it's either right or you don't get another cent out of me.

There are a ton of useless fools out there and this is just another example.

 

Oh ya, there's about $4,000 or so to go.

[Fisherman]

Not a lot of truly reputable tradesmen out there any more. The last subdivision I oversaw, we had to replace nearly all of our trades more than once in a 2 year period. The good ones don't work for cheap either.

 

I understand what you mean and can go from experience. My father was a master cabinetmaker with his 8 year apprentice and journeyman papers from Germany. He did a lot of fine furniture work, inlay work, etc. My brother still has his part of his master piece. Back then, you were not allowed machine work, all done by hand tools. A games table, one side chess/checker board, inlaid veneer, the other side, a working roulette table. The outside end panels had inlaid brass "grapevines". All finished in hand polish. He had it on display at Redpaths many years ago. That's what I meant by no DAP.

[DRIFTER_016]

Oh ya, there's about $4,000 or so to go.

 

Good!!! Don't give them a cent until it's perfect!!!

[Gerritt]

This sounds like a clear case of someone that does not understand the construction industry. I did my apprenticeship in cabinet and millwork. Mind you completely custom.. That is the problem with hiring some of these larger firms, they have employees that do not understand the trade nor have any business being involved with it. They are more interior designers then people that actually have a working knowledge of what is involved. I have met These so called designers that could clearly not read a tape if there life depended on it.... When someone says 32" and two larger notches... You know you are going to have problems.

 

G

[SBCregal]

The good ones don't work for cheap either.

 

 

you get what you pay for. a good tradesman is worth far more than MOST people value them at.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Dunner

[livinisfishin]

This sounds like a clear case of someone that does not understand the construction industry. I did my apprenticeship in cabinet and millwork. Mind you completely custom.. That is the problem with hiring some of these larger firms, they have employees that do not understand the trade nor have any business being involved with it. They are more interior designers then people that actually have a working knowledge of what is involved. I have met These so called designers that could clearly not read a tape if there life depended on it.... When someone says 32" and two larger notches... You know you are going to have problems.

 

G

 

Definitely makes me watch what I say..

[Twocoda]

not too harsh at all in my mind...what was the completion date of the contract? (if there was one)

you might find it hard to find another kitchen company to come in and finish an already started project though (not saying its impossible but could be tough) 5 strikes is a lot for a kitchen remodel...care to share the name of the company? ( i just googled as to where Angus is on the map and i know two reputable kitchen companys that will travel to your area should the need arise)

 

hope you get it worked out sooner then later...you could possibly give them a monetary value of the inconvenience on a day to day basis...its a tactic i have used before and when your taking money directly out of their profits....they have a tendency to get stuff done in a professional mannner

 

If they dont like that idea ...then a few "extras" at their expense will ensure your happiness

 

now there is a bright side to everything ...and the only one i can find for this situation is ...maybe the festive dinner will have to be held at another family members house...that way you wont have to clean up after the Turkey is gone

 

Post pics of the completed job ...would like to see it ..

[Billy Bob]

One word of advice......."paragraphs"

 

Good Luck,

Bob, not Billy

[solopaddler]

Oh man, I really feel for you.

 

You were not too harsh at all, and for Gods sake don't pay them another dime.

 

If you need someone to finish the job right, aniceguy on the board does this for a living and does it well.

Might be worth a pm if you're stuck.

 

Hope things work out, keep us posted.

[Randy]

I don't think you are too harsh and thanks for posting. We are looking at redoing our kitchen too and your experience has certainly given me some "food for thought" in my planning of our kitchen.

 

I hope this works out for you.

[mbac31]

I deal with these type of people all the time, seems if you have money and you buy a hammer you are a qualified carpenter nowadays. I had to learn the old way first before I was even allowed to touch a power tool. My wife is a Designer by trade and cant beleive what these people get away with. I deal with Designers and so called Skilled Tradesmen/women every day. Very few skilled or licenced ones out there.

 

I'm a Master Carpenter by Trade. I had to learn so much stuff to become one thats its impossible to remember everything all the time. Lol. I can tell you how much a certian peice of furniture will move with moisture, just my passion and I have turned it into a career. I do tons of Custom stuff, hand turned peices to custom Furniture to wooden boats I have made before. I know how to steam manipulate woods, laminate bends, inlays etc. I dont use putty, plain and simple. Sometimes its needed in jobsite situations (Production Houses) but never in a private custom job. I have fired guys for using it. I can build a fine peice of Furniture or even a Beaver Dam if someone wishes. But guys like myself dont come cheap like the other post stated. But I have yet to have one unsatisified customer. Everything is up front and it gets done the way its contracted out to get done. I use contractors all the time and will not pay until I go through the job and everything thats entailed in a Contract is complete. Because Im a good carpenter it was hard for me to find good guys when I first started out. First year I fired 13 guys. Some of them with 30 years experience.

 

I'm speaking from a Contractors point of view here as well. Do not pay them a cent and you should require them to discount the fee for being late and for all the mistakes. Request the job to be done as per your signed plan. If it does not meet it then they dont get paid until its done. As for the Crown or Valanc, I dont even nail the face of those. I use a Pin nailer on back reveal to attach it to the top and Glued miters are a must. I use a resin type glue for flex. I also color my miters with same stain as cabinets. There should be no gaps. This one installed in your kitchen can now for sure not be used again. Its now landfill. Call the owner of the company, usually works. Make sure he comes out to the Job. Always works for me if needed.

 

Anice guy does this all the time as well. Great guy also. Knows his stuff . Again dont sit back and take it from them if I were you. Why dont you popst the Kitchen Company name as to warn others. To many companies out there like this hat give guys like us a bad name.

[Billy Bob]

Smalliefisher, I always envied guys like you....I do my best and believe the job is ALWAYS in the detail when done.

 

Do you have any pics of your work...I would love to see them.

 

Bob, not Billy....

[Fisherman]

Hope fully this works for posting the pictures and comments.

First pic, nice cut, free no cost.

 

Second pic, the trim is flush with the leading edge of the cabinet.

Third pic, the trim is now back about 3/8ths, the 45 cut is past the center of the corner, nice 45, eh?

Fourth pic, now we have come around the corner and the trim is really going off, about 3/4" behind the leading edge of the cabinet.

Fifth pic, past the window the trim is now almost an inch behind the leading edge.

Sixth pic, wow, nice 45 eh, beaver still looking for his teeth. Need a quart of DAP.

Seventh pic, next 45, back to the DAP, may as well buy a gallon.

Eighth pic, #7 as seen from below, we just have to adjust the 45 a bit overboard to get things to line up.

Ninth pic, one of the scuff marks on the face of the cabinet doors, there are 8 more doors and a panel like this, what the heck, they come pre scuffed so you don't have to.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Fisherman

[stubbex1]

wow that is terrible!!! I say tell them to fix it, if they won't don't pay for the rest and spend the money on someone who knows what their doing.

[lew]

Really pathetic work and looks like something done by a kid in grade 7 woodshop class, rather than a supposed professional.

 

Hopefully you haven't payed too much $$$$ up front and I definetely wouldn't be handing over anymore of your hard earned $$$$

 

Good luck and it'd be nice if you could keep us posted on the outcome.

[Spiel]

That's brutal craftmanship, or rather lack off.

 

I'd be pissed too.

[Twocoda]

1 either the house itself is way out of whack or the cabinets are not level( notice the diffence in distance from the top of the valance to the ceiling ..)

2 the material they have installed at the top of the cabinets isnt crown moulding ....that material is intended for under counter to cover the under counter lights ( if there are any)

3 they need a new saw blade for this type of cutting and maybe an instruction video on how to use it ...brutal

 

i would have them rip it off and redo it properly with the proper material or if you can live with it ...huge discount comming your way!!! ( i wouldnt have them do any "extras" for you free of charge unless you need garbage taken to the dump or your laneway shoveled)

 

break out a tape measure and see what the clearance from the underside of the cabinets to the counter top height is ( im going to guess it isnt going to be correct @ 18 inches)

[vinnimon]

Truely pathetic workmanship Dave!

My neighbour went threw something similiar, and burned by 3 contractors!

Id be pissed as well!

Hopefully you come to a reasonable agreement to have it redone properly!

At no extra charge!

[Flappn]

I would have gotten ride of them when the first set came in wrong. Seems with companies if they can't do it right from the start the rest is always a complete nightmare. I'm in sales for a very large organization and none of my customers have or will put up with what happened to you. We have financial penalties for incorrect design/consulting/implementation no questions asked. I treat everyone that does work for me the way I get treated at work and let me tell you it's extra work being on top of things and being harsh...but you get the result you expect. Business is business being harsh is part of business if required.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Flappn

[Fisherman]

1 either the house itself is way out of whack or the cabinets are not level( notice the diffence in distance from the top of the valance to the ceiling ..)

 

1. Yes the ceiling trusses go up a bit in winter and down in summer, I can and have to live with that.

 

2 the material they have installed at the top of the cabinets isnt crown moulding ....that material is intended for under counter to cover the under counter lights ( if there are any)

 

2. Correct, however my wife and I saw it on top of the cabinets at the showroom, looked fine and we went wit that instead of the crown.

 

 

3 they need a new saw blade for this type of cutting and maybe an instruction video on how to use it ...brutal

 

3. I kept the cut off ends and held them up against another chop saw @45, I think his saw is wacked.

 

i would have them rip it off and redo it properly with the proper material or if you can live with it ...huge discount comming your way!!! ( i wouldnt have them do any "extras" for you free of charge unless you need garbage taken to the dump or your laneway shoveled)

 

break out a tape measure and see what the clearance from the underside of the cabinets to the counter top height is ( im going to guess it isnt going to be correct @ 18 inches)

 

Right again, seeing as how both my wife and I are on the taller side, we can both reach the upper 36" cabinets we went with 23" clearance between the cabinet bottom and counter top..whenever it gets here. It gives me a bit more room height wise on the counter when I cooking.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Fisherman