Home inspection rant!!!! NF

[bigfish1965]

I am in the process of selling my home. I'm on my second offer cause the first one fell through. The first one fell through because the inspector found some old knob and tube wiring. It was up to code, but insurance companies don't like it. So kudos to that inspector for finding it.

My rant is that I paid good money five years ago to have the same inspection done and the wiring was not found. The inspector who found it this time said it was pretty much Day 1 insepctor school stuff.

I had an electrician in today (who is a good friend and going to replace the wiring very cheaply..but still going to cost me $2,000 cause it goes into two walls and a ceiling).

The electrician said either the first inspector was an idiot or he just didn't look at the wiring. Considering the house is 100 yrs old, that should be one of the main things they hunt for since insurance companies make it a big deal. A simple ground fault indicator shows ungrounded and potentially bad circuits...it seems my inspector must have not done it, or did it and didn't report his fisnings. I have the report still and will be talking to him.If he doesn't see it my way I will be sure to warn all my friends about the incompetence I have noted.

Now there's no way I am not going after the inspector who messed up. Im my opinion had he done his job, the previous owners would have had to foot the bill for the wiring and not me having to do it now, since you can't sell a house this way. I also have to get a new panel cause the one I have is also nowhere near code.

Am I wrong?? Shouldn't someone who is a professional be held accountable for negligent work? In my line of work I have given back customers thousand sof dollars due to staff errors. Not a big deal to me...my staff's mistake should never cost my customers money.

[silveradosheriff]

Definately a tough break!

With any service providers, you are going to have variability in their competence/performance. It sucks that the first guy missed that.

But remember what they call the person who finishes last in their graduating medical class................Doctor.

[Daplumma]

My feelings exactly Rick.Home inspectors should be held accountable just like I would be.I have seen them miss obviuos stuff and nit pick stuff that ends up costing people money.One of the slimyist professions out there for sure.If they knew what they were talking about they would have a trade and make some money.Go after him Rick but I dont think you will be sucessful.Most wont even return a phone call when I try to contact them about an inspection they have done.

Joe

[motv8tr]

Unfortunately Home inspectors are not a regulated industry and anyone can pretty much hang up a shingle and call themselves one. The better and more reputable ones are trying to change that and make certain qualifications mandatory. If you look at the bottom of your agreement I'm sure you'll find something to the effect that they are not accountable and there is no gaurantee or warrenty to the inspection and you like had only 10 business days to dispute or complain about the inpection.

 

Maureen

[danc]

Perhaps the insurance companies have become harder to deal with since you bought the house? What was ok with them then might not be ok with them now?

[Beans]

We had a hard time finding a home inspecter in this area when we needed one...Evidently the guy who did this district for the company he represented gave up the business because the cost of liability insurance had gone sky-high and he was near retirement age...

 

So if they are paying liability insurance I can see no reason why you shouldn't be able to make a claim...???

[Beans]

Edited February 13, 2008 by Beans

[Roy]

This link might give you a little insight but seeing as how they misspelled "Canadian" in the first sentence, I'd be a little wary.

 

http://cmhc.ca/publications/en/rh-pr/tech/tech00-131-e.html

[Rizzo]

Man that sucks...I hate incompetence. Hopefully something positive can come out of this for you. I'd imagine best case scenario would be refunding the fees you paid him ($300??), can't see them getting involved in re-wiring costs

[bigfish1965]

Thanks for the info Roy.

I found out that this guy is certified through CAHFI and I may have recovery through them.

[taper]

Rick I agree with your complaint about the inspector. Just curios, you said you needed to replace the panel as well, as it wasn't up to code. It only needs to meet code for when it was installed not todays standards or is this a case of insurance hassle again. Hopefully you can recover some of your costs in the sale with new electrical service.

[charlied]

I was in a similar bout in June with dry rot under the house and a main support beam cracked. Inspector said he couldn't get under the house....next inspector did in 5 seconds and found the problems....well $2600 later it is fixed...learned a valuable lesson on this one! Get them to check everything. I feel your pain and frustration Rick!!! Tried to go after the home inspector....with no results! And it was a reputable inspection business...oh well!

[danc]

I'm sure that the "fine print" in their contract protects them from overseeing things. They can't be that dumb, can they???

 

Case closed IMHO.

[John]

Rick, it is a profession where there are so many "fly by night" operators. All you need is a flashlight and an extension ladder.

 

May I suggest that one of the more reputable is Carson Dunlop. They are probably $100 or so premium. The detail in their report is worth the money. We used them for our most recent home purchase and it was a 3 1/2 or 4 hour process that was not only a well organized but very logical process.

I have a 4" binder that covers every aspect of the inspection.

[solopaddler]

Very interesting Rick as I can definitely relate. I'm currently in the midst of renovating my house to put it on the market sometime in the spring.

I've recently had 2 separate people warn me that my wiring and panel box would have to be upgraded before the house could be sold (mine's also an older house).

We're in an even more agravating position as the person who performed the house inspection 6 years ago was my brother in law.

He works part time as a real estate agent and home inspector and handled everything for us back then.

 

What do you guys think, should I go after my brother in law?

 

It's a no win situation. The only positive is we've gained such a huge amount of equity in the house over such a short period that it eases the sting a bit.

[Fisherman]

Home inspectors should be held accountable just like I would be.I have seen them miss obviuos stuff and nit pick stuff that ends up costing people money.One of the slimyist professions out there for sure.If they knew what they were talking about they would have a trade and make some money..

Joe

Don't ball them all into one group, just like any trade or profession, there is everything from pill doctors to crooked carpenters(those that can't hammer a nail and make a straight wall, shyster mechanics and plumbers that make your toilet back up. My oldest took the complete course along with some of the building code sections and is starting his own business, yes, the insurance costs are pretty high for them. Word spreads fast and a couple of bad raps and you're out of business. He did our house and my brothers just for a couple of test runs and I just about croaked, almost wrote a book by the time he was done, from everything that was satisfactory, met old code to suggested upgrades and things that required immediate attention. It covered everything visible, including a jaunt into the attic, up on the roof, furnace/HW check, electrical, plumbing, window and door caulking, jeez, the list goes on like the damm pink bunny. I think Rick may have had a bad apple do his.

[Rattletrap2]

I feel your pain Rick!

Just went through a similar mess back in April.

I hired a Home inspector that was referred to me by a friend. He was supposed to be more familiar with rural areas and I paid him a premium to drive to our area to do this inspection.

The guy started out by measuring the front porch and advised me that the height required a railing, the stairs to the front door required a hand rail, etc. None of this stuff is happening, regardless of the codes!

It was winter, so he said he could not check the roof with all the snow on it. OK, I sort of understood.

He looked in the attic, but did not go up through the hatch.

He poked around in the basement and said all looked fine. He was measuring the insulation i the walls by removing a switch plate cover and looking into the walls.

He checked over the wood burning fireplace ( not very thoroughly I might add) and some other stuff.

Overall, he said the place was in "Great" shape!

 

What he missed:

Water damage in the basement laundryroom walls which resulted in me ripping out the walls and renovating to remove mold.

Most light fixtures had 100 watt bulbs and had cooked themselves and the wiring.

An over sized bulb in the range hood fried the controls and transformer in that unit. We never checked it!

I have had numerous plumbing issues.

Electrical issues are ongoing.

Main floor toilet leaked at floor flange.

In the summer, I found the "newer" roof was poorly installed and will need replacement.

 

The list goes on!

 

I was extremely dissapointed in myself for missing this stuff on any of the three visits I made to the property, but you can only take in so much with the real estate salesperson waiting on you during a "scheduled" 1 hour visit. I should have known better and been more thorough. I didn't realize just how far I could push things. We still wanted the place, but perhaps I could have negotiated the repairs into the deal. I was hoping this guy would look at things that I had overlooked, but he was less thorough than I was.

 

I found out what "thorough" was when it came time to having my existing home inspected by the new buyer and his home inspector a month or so later. I had to sell to this buyer in order to make the deal go through on our purchase, so I was at their mercy. The inspector was very thorough, and it ended up forcing me to drop a lot of money off the agreed price to ensure that these people bought our home.

They checked and rechecked every little detail. They flushed every toilet several times and compared the time it took to flush. He had a sounding unit that uncovered moisture behind the shower walls. he checked the entire house and all of the equipment in extreme detail. It is one of the worst times I have ever had to go through. I was home and had to wait and listen to this guy picking the place apart. All the time, I'm expecting this buyer to just say "forget it"!

 

The only thing I got a chuckle at, was he said the filter on the furnace was dirty and showed lack of maintenance! IT WAS REPLACED A FEW HOURS PRIOR TO THE INSPECTION! The furnace was in great condition and he had no clue as to what he was talking about there.

 

It's a game. If you get a good inspector, it can probably save you a bundle. If you get an incompetent one, it will cost you a bundle. They cover themselves pretty well with disclaimers, so good luck in going after him.

 

My advice to anyone getting involved with these people is "BUYER BEWARE"! Hopefully, the one working on YOUR behalf is a good one!

[pigeonfisher]

I agree...

 

We also got hosed. Going to cost me about between $1500 and $3000 to get a new chimnea liner when our inspector didn't notice at all the something didn't look right.

 

New home buyers inspector caught it right away.

 

Also our real estate agent didn't do due diligence in noting that the wett certification being provided noted that it did not pass. I know how to do my job very well, I expect when I pay for services that I don't have to do theirs!!!

[Joey]

Go for it Rick, and good luck. I for one will be interested in seeing how you make out.

 

People need to be more careful and be held accountable for their work. If he had missed bad wiring that eventually lead to a fire, who would then be at fault?

 

Keep us updated.

 

Joey

[tonyb]

I think you have a fair case Rick, please keep us updated on how you make out with this.

 

I've had a very good experience with a home inspector that we used when we bought our first home, and again just recently buying an older (55+) home...so they aren't all scumbags

 

Tony

[Headhunter]

As some may know, I recently (June 07) sold and bought a new to me house. My old house was built in 1932 and still have most of it's original wiring, knob and tube, on the 2nd floor. I knew it, my real estate agent knew it and we handled it this way;

- my agent paid for my house inspection, (on the house I was selling) using an inspector that is also tied to an insurance company. He obviously caught that fact that at least 5 circuits were knob and tube. He than told me and my agent that if I replaced all the two wire recepticles with ground fault recepticles, he would pass the house and in turn, GUARANTEE insurance on the house.

-so, when the house hit the market, there was a completed and passed home inspection sitting on the dinning room table for potential buyers to see.

- I did not get a house inspection on the new house... past experience told me to save my $400! IT's simply a waste of money! It is not required by the banks/lenders any more. Your lender only wants a guarantee on TITLE SEARCH these days. With so many folks having their homes sold out from underneath them, the banks only care for the Title search.

-I have some buddies in the building business look at my new house... I'm sure that most of us have someone in the know in the construction industry that could help them out. No fancey bound report, but with my $400.00 still in my pocket, I'll make notes!LOL

Rick, I don't think that you have any real recourse with your previous inspector... the industry is based on peoples insecurities and there really are no ramifications to their ineptitude!

Regarding your panel, I agree with Taper, not your problem... if it passed inspection when installed, it's fine. If prospective buyers are turning away based on that, then your agent should be asking them why they are considering buying a 100 year old house? If they want modern, tell them to go buy a brand new house!

I hope things work out for yah... I'd be talking to my agent and finding out what they are going to be willing to do, to help you sell the house and in turn, make them a big fat commission.! My agent went beyond the call of duty, in order to get my business. They included:

-replacing old dated light fixtures and installing them on her dime

-painting my veranda - her dime

-staging my house with her furniture - her dime

-paid for the home inspection - her dime

-lined up insurance for the prospective buyers

I could go on, but ... your agent is the key to your success... I wish you the best of luck!

HH

 

PS... just a note about knob and tube... it has been functioning in my old house for 75 years! Flawlessly, I might add... personally, I think the whole knob and tube "scare" is simply yet another revenue generating vehicle for the insecure. Heck, if it was gonna blow up, wouldn't it have done so some time within the last 75 years!LOL

Rick, see if you can get someone to insure it as it stands, before you start dropping thousands into it!

Edited February 13, 2008 by Headhunter

[pikehunter]

Am I wrong?? Shouldn't someone who is a professional be held accountable for negligent work?

 

I believe that they are not responsible for errors, read the agreement fully.

 

As many know I have been in the window and door business for many years and it always amazes me when I go into a house and see what inspectors have missed on their reports.

 

I pulled up to a house in a nice Oakville neighbourhood once. The owner had called because her window was fogged up, a seal failure for sure. As I pulled up to the curb I could not help but notice the brick window sill under the huge living room window crumbling and large pieces of brick falling into the garden below. I knew I was in for a treat right away and knew she had more problems then just a fogged up window.

 

Inside I pulled back the curtains. There was virtually no drywall at all under the window, it had disintegrated from water leaks and had obviously been happening for quite some time. BTW, the house at that time was only about 6 years old. I asked her how long that this problem had existed. She didn't know as they had only owned the house about 8 months! I asked if they had not noticed this when they looked at the house. They had not and relied on a home inspection.

 

The inspector had made no mention of it in his report. I asked if they could not go after him. She said it was right in the contract that the inspector could not be held liable for oversights. Since that day I have never put much value in inspections and have seen other problems since then.

 

Too many people put all their faith in the inspection. They should go over the house with a fine tooth comb themselves with the assistance of someone they can trust and then have an inspection done.

 

We about put an offer on a house once but lost out to another bidder who were the couple that had looked at the house at exactly the same time as we had. They spent all of 10 minutes if even that long looking at the house and were putting their faith in the home inspector. I could not believe it! We spent almost an hour checking things over and if I was too seriously pursue it I would have checked things over once more and then had the inspection.

 

Best of luck Rick, I hope that you can recoup some of this unexpected cost.

[Rooky]

Now, i don't post here much but is there anyway you can go after the previous owners?

[irishfield]

I wasn't gonna post on this as Rick is a friend, but people nobody is responsible for what you have bought but you. To think that a home inspector is, in most cases, qualified to tell you if your furnace is good, fireplace is safe, wiring is to code is just beyond reason. Plumbing apprenticeship FIVE years. Most think of it as shi t going down hill, including me, but facts are facts. Electrician.. similar requirements. Furnace installer certifications. Do you think most of these home inspectors have these qualifications. What ever happened to having a good look yourself... popping the cover plate off the elect panel to see if you're getting something neat or spagettii. Popping a socket cover off to see if you have ground wires, aluminum wiring etc and if you don't know bringing along your father, father-in-law to have a boo for you and then taking the cards you're dealt. Like so many other things we are becoming a "not at fault" society, no different than the wimmin that went thru the ice on Nipissing that everyone was taking shots at.

 

Panel is grandfathered to code, even the crap in half of Milton with Aluminum wire. Only issue is if it's a 60 amp panel your insurance company probably won't touch it. First question on the applicaton.

Edited February 13, 2008 by irishfield

[Kirk]

Home inspection or Home insurance...?

 

Can't back charge home improvements to a guy that inspected years ago. Especially when your upgrades will add to value of your home which you recoup on sale.

 

Might get some coin on clearing out a nuisance basis but my votes with the home inspector.