Marc Thorpe Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 After reading many post on new regs and disapointements in regards to our overall resource What are your thoughts of the futur of our resources in your perception? What impacts and issue do you consider needs the most attention in coming years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gbfisher Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Better stocking. Habitat isn't going to change............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Consider this the ramblings of a grumpy old man. A body of water will only support so many fish of a certain species. Stocking, unless initial stocking of a new lake or recovery stocking after a problem is a lot like taxes, it never stops. Some species can`t naturally survive in some bodies of water, why stock them and perpetuate a stocking program? Why stock fish and not adjust harvest limits to allow them to self sustain? They are a resource that can become depleted. The population up there has grown tremendously since the 50`s and 60`s it affects fishing pressure and sustainable limits. Catch and release seems to be a viable option, if practiced. LOL, lake erie walleye, from canada, 9.99 a pound here! Haven`t seen Lake O muskies for sale, yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 I might be one of the few that's happy with the new regs and the changes in my area and overall. I find them alot easier to read and understand and they addressed some major issues to help out with the falling population of fish in the area. The biggest issue I see is we need more work to be done in Public Education to promote catch and release. Living close to Toronto and the huge populations the lakes in my area are under heavy fishing pressure all season long. I have seen some improvements in the attitude of fisher people in the area in the last few years and in turn have seen populations of fish improving a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clausewitz Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Like anything the answer is going to be complex. We are going to have to encourage catch and release even more. Stocking is a big part of it all, and solid limits that reflect the known amount of fish that are stocked. I'm on Loughborough Lake for a big part of my summers and it is stocked. A lot of people fish that lake and a lot of people enjoy it. All of the local guides and lodges really encourage catch and release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big guy Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 I have done a fair bit of reading on the stocking issue and I am not sure it's the way to go. In some situations, put-and-take trout fisheries for example, it's seems to fairly viable. Your putting fish in to be taken out, as simple as that. If the circumstance is to enhance as existing population, studies show that it really upsets the balance with no significant benefit to the fisherman. I think I would rather see a chunk of the stocking money go to increased enforcement, more CO's per area to catch the "real" problem within our sport... over harvesting. I think we all need to be more aware and diligent when it comes to people taking more than their share. The majority of us have digital cameras and/or phones with us when we go fishing, we have to use them more often in the reporting of issues, fishing violations, pollution issues etc. I know it's hard for some people to be confrontational, but these devices can be used very discretely and the information turned over to authorities without the offenders even knowing. Fines and suspensions must also increase to deter people. I am really hoping that the new regs that have been put in place for much of the southern Ontario will help the fishery over the long term. But it's only going to work if we "all" except and obey the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skeeter99 Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 new regs are great lower limits and closed lakes and seasons have been a long time coming slot sizes are good to (they work) i have seen 5 or 6 lakes go from good fishing to great fishing in 2 to 3 years *imo* it is just the meat hunters who are not happy but the majority of fishermen are catch and release these days and only a few *bad eggs* who dont follow any type of rules in life let alone fishing regs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gbfisher Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Consider this the ramblings of a grumpy old man. A body of water will only support so many fish of a certain species. Stocking, unless initial stocking of a new lake or recovery stocking after a problem is a lot like taxes, it never stops. Some species can`t naturally survive in some bodies of water, why stock them and perpetuate a stocking program? Why stock fish and not adjust harvest limits to allow them to self sustain? They are a resource that can become depleted. The population up there has grown tremendously since the 50`s and 60`s it affects fishing pressure and sustainable limits. Catch and release seems to be a viable option, if practiced. LOL, lake erie walleye, from canada, 9.99 a pound here! Haven`t seen Lake O muskies for sale, yet? Simple answer to your Grumpy Old Man Ramblings........ So We Can Catch em.. ....I'm talking about the stocking we TRY so hard to do but FAIL miserably at. We could learn a thing or two from the states when it comes to stocking. Not all lakes or fish in our lakes are thriving. Why else would C&R be the alternative??? In SOME lakes Stocking is the only solution because of habitat loss. If habitat does not improve there can be no improvement with sustainable fish population. We will be limited to death until we cant even go fishing. C&R might end up being the ONLY way. NO FISH FOR YOU.... Its a tough call either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gbfisher Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 new regs are great lower limits and closed lakes and seasons have been a long time coming slot sizes are good to (they work) i have seen 5 or 6 lakes go from good fishing to great fishing in 2 to 3 years *imo* it is just the meat hunters who are not happy but the majority of fishermen are catch and release these days and only a few *bad eggs* who dont follow any type of rules in life let alone fishing regs LOL... You must be a Bass fisherman. BAD EGGS??? I'm not sure about you or the rest of us fishermen but I like to eat fish myself and so do my kids. I do not always keep my limit but the option is there... OH....and I do not target bass or eat them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kulik Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Smokey hit the nail on the head!, way too much about eating fish is emphazised, we live in a country that we do not need to eat fish to survive, or to feed our families, fresh fish should be considered a "treat" , my wife and I love fish -however , we also have 2 children aged 6& 8 , they deserve to enjoy the resource as I did growing up, passing this great sport of fishing to our kids is way more important that filling up a freezer or parading a stringer of big spawning sized fish up and down a dock, like a hero, My wife grew up dirt poor in Ecuador, there they keep fish simply because they have to feed there family, however she understands why we release the majority of what we catch, there is nothing wrong with keeping a few fish to eat, it seems like some people just don't get it! thats why slot limits and reduced limits are implimented-stocking is only a band-aid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aniceguy Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 After reading many post on new regs and disapointements in regards to our overall resource What are your thoughts of the futur of our resources in your perception? What impacts and issue do you consider needs the most attention in coming years? Its not really perception, habitat loss and degredation, climate change, exploitation rates that in many cases are not in line with sustainable fisheries all add up to in many cases supressed fisheries that are dependant on hatchery or regulatory measures to keep the status quo. Hunters and gatherer's we are and as such many feel the need to take a full stringer home for the table, while its within thier right in some instances packs of fillets end up being tossed due to age, freezer burn etc.... A fresh meal of fish from clean waters is a fantastic thing, a true Canadiana fare to be had for sure, but not if the resource we are fishing is not sustainable. Catch and release is a great tool to use but if habitat is degraded then simply put there will be fewer fish for all. Look at the carp die off this yr with the introduction of a pathogen, the conspiracy therorists might say it was introduced as a modus to combat the ineviable introduction of silver carp but in reality it has a lot more to do with habitat loss and ecosystem disocation. In truth as a single human other then lowering your own personal carbon footprint, not much can be done, until it becomes profitable for the corporations to want to work on these many issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Hi, it's seems that there is a perception among some that our fisheries are in decline. According to the MNR most waterbodies have healthy and sustainable fish populations. The ones that don't are taken care of thru rehab, temporary reg changes, etc. As well, numbers of new anglers to the sport are actually in decline, contrary to the more popular belief that there are more and more anglers. Our fisheries have many things that negatively impact them, however, despite this our fisheries are for the most part in great shape. I feel that the single most positive thing that has benefitted the fisheries is the voluntary movement by sportsmen towards quality C&R. What concerns me the most is that because there is a perception that our fisheries are in decline, the calls for more and more restrictive regs have increased. Most of the new regs, quite frankly, are not going to have an impact one way or the other. As well, many of the new regs will not be enforced. The end result....the scofflaws will still do what they do but the guys abiding by the law have another right taken away. A good example is the new 5.1" limit on live bait. In what way will this new reg positively impact the fishery??? Probably not much, except that a bunch of law-abiding anglers who used to fish with bigger live bait can no longer do so. And 5.1" will not be the end. Live bait fishing may become a thing of the past in the near future if we allow it to happen. Another one is unreasonably high size limits. I feel that 54" for muskies on some waterbodies is too high, essentially making those fisheries C&R only, but now there's a cry for a 58" size limit on G-Bay. Where will it end??? I have been fishing for over 40 years and I have seen many fishing rights eroded over the years, but not as fast they are being eroded in the last 10 years. The MNR has several core tools such as possesion limits, size limits, season limits, equipment limitations etc. which they use for managing fisheries (or should I say managing anglers). Would you rather see the MNR spending their time working on, tweaking, changing, and creating new regs (that for the most part will not be enforced) or would you rather see them focus more on enforcing the existing core regs which actually do have a positive impact on our fisheries??? More money and more regs is not the answer. I am not as much worried about having a fishery for future generations as I am about future generations having the right to fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skeeter99 Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 hey gbfisher yes I am a bass fisherman but I keep fish toooo!!!!! walleye/perch/crappie bad eggs *meaning* guys go out and keep there limit everyday for a week when they are over possesion in 1 day, 10 lines in the water, fishing out of season, fishing in sanctuaries etc.... etc... I am talking about the poachers and guys with 25 walleye in their bucket!!!!!! dont play by the rules **they never have and never will*** besides fishing is a sport in north america, lots of food at sobeys LOL!!! u can go to your spot and catch fish everytime and so will your children and grandchildren people always say I fished there for 10-15 years i got my limit everytime and now the fishing is not good or they are really small well DAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! that spot has been cleaned out and not enough big spawners left to replaced what was taken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunkerbasshunter Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 I think catch and release needs to be practiced more. I think limits in alot of areas need to be cut from 6 to 3. Stocking will also have to be put into place on alot of lakes. The reason for my opionions are simple. I read a report saying that by 2050 there will be close to 50 million people in canada. THis means added pressure and we are not going to get addition lakes. so we need to cut back on whats harvested and start a good stocking program that makes sense to sustain our fisheries. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Stocking of some lakes is very different then others. To say stocking sucks is very wrong. Go ask anyone that fishes salmon. We need the salmon back in GB. They need to protect all fish better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyDog Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 One needs to remember that any fish will have thousands of eggs. The survival of the fish is dictated generally by the amount of fish that can be sustained by the contraints of the environment that they are in. For the most part with fish harvest, if you take one fish another will take its place. If you take 50, that leaves room for 50 more fry to take thier place. In a healthy waterbody as long as there is spawning females there should be no shortage of fry competing for limited "big fish" opportunties even with moderate to heavy fishing pressure since like a gas (which will expand to fit the container its in), most species will do the same (even humans). Further, heavy fishing pressure tends to reduce the catch not only because of a declining resource, but because the fish are pretty smart about figuring out what NOT to eat over a period of time. So while indiscriminate overfishing can decimate smaller bodies of water (Valens being a recent example), the biggest concerns in many places is loss of habitat, spawning grounds, pollution and similar environmental concerns. Even with Valens, one might suspect a healthy pike population has depressed the bluegill population which is a natural and cyclical - ie. lots of bluegill = lots of pike = less bluegill = less pike = more bluegill, etc. (although again I suspect the white bucket crowd might have helped this process along on Valnes since its a closed environment). By Waterwolf's previous testament, the pike fishing on Valens has never been better and if that is true - they must be eating something. So while poaching is despicable and I am always happy to keep only what I need, I think the wider environmental concerns for most of our waterways are of far greater importance than the odd bad apple who wants to steal a bucket of walleye. As we all know, all animal populations are cyclical and fishing or hunting or harvesting if done prudently probably has a marginal impact as compared to perhaps a new waterfront real estate development that decimates a good spawning ground, or the phosphate run off from a local farm which chokes the oxygen out of the water, or even the changing and apparently warming environment. Where I fish as an example, the water level (and zebras) appears from my anecdotal experience to have had the most negative impact on the fishery. Moreso than the anglers the constantly troll the waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 You can't please all the people all the time! I've noticed some people whizzin' and moaning because they've reduced the creel limit from 6 Walleye to 4 in some areas... to me that is just plain greed! If it was up to some people, there wouldn't be any creel or size limits and they would take until there wasn't anymore to take... the sit around and cry about there not being any fish left and blame it on everything and everybody except them selves. Just like the commercial have done in some areas. Smaller creel and better length and slot limits, combined with closed seasons will do more for a fishery than alot of people can imagine. The system isn't perfect, but it's a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kulik Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 I agree Greencoachdog, 4 walleye is more than enough to enjoy a walleye dinner for several people!, and if you think a large body of water can sustain overfishing, ask the cod anglers on the East coast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 I was going to formulate a response to Marc's question but after having read everyones' suggestions so far, I have no need to. I agree wholeheartedly with ChrisS. I couldn't have said it any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gbfisher Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 hey gbfisheryes I am a bass fisherman but I keep fish toooo!!!!! walleye/perch/crappie bad eggs *meaning* guys go out and keep there limit everyday for a week when they are over possesion in 1 day, 10 lines in the water, fishing out of season, fishing in sanctuaries etc.... etc... I am talking about the poachers and guys with 25 walleye in their bucket!!!!!! dont play by the rules **they never have and never will*** besides fishing is a sport in north america, lots of food at sobeys LOL!!! u can go to your spot and catch fish everytime and so will your children and grandchildren people always say I fished there for 10-15 years i got my limit everytime and now the fishing is not good or they are really small well DAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! that spot has been cleaned out and not enough big spawners left to replaced what was taken Sorry..I was getting ahead of myself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeontroller Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 ENFORCEMENT We need to have more CO's in the field! This is not likely to happen with our current government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Yep like Dax said ! Take the budget from the extra OPP marine unit... that's only purpose is to do boat inspections (writing tickets at a net loss over operation costs) and give it to the CO's to protect our fishery. I could care less if some dumb ass doesn't care enough about his boat and occupants vs our natural resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishindevil Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 Yes but what about habitat degredation !!!!..take the kawartha lakes...theres a perfect example of habitat loss,the fishing is nowhere even close to what it once was ,and alot of it is due to just that,there is hardly 25ft of untouched shoreline anywhere in the system...so in that case doubled with a 6 fish limit,it has made them what they are today....so in that case stocking is the only way to keep the fisheries alive,as well as the tourism industry,which has dropped righ off,and is getting worse every year,but i think anglers have to be more educated about whats the priority ,keeping what we have left,or trying to enhance and make the fisheries better buy using common sense,and yes in these times maybe we should use more C&R...for a while,maybe a few years,and do some stocking where it needs to be,and see what happens,its tough cause there is people who just want to hunt meat .and people who just want to catch and release,so its a hard question to answer,but overall things are not good,and i think the new regs did not do enough to make things better at all,i give it a failing grade for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danc Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 I have done a fair bit of reading on the stocking issue and I am not sure it's the way to go. In some situations, put-and-take trout fisheries for example, it's seems to fairly viable. Your putting fish in to be taken out, as simple as that. If the circumstance is to enhance as existing population, studies show that it really upsets the balance with no significant benefit to the fisherman. I think I would rather see a chunk of the stocking money go to increased enforcement, more CO's per area to catch the "real" problem within our sport... over harvesting. I agree with bug guy here. I'm not a big fan of stocking for sustaining a population. Job #1 is the environment IMHO. Without it, we have nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 (edited) Like the new regs Great format easy to find exceptions and extra opportunities. Need some fresh blood for the resource though. Bureaucracy wastes way too much money. Need some more enforcement. Need to return match funding to fish and wildlife SPA and CFWIP Hopefully Donna Cansfield's environmental background will add some weight to the protection of wetlands and stream banks. Also there are some common sense changes around the great lakes like they now have closed seasons inland where the fish go to spawn rather than just closing the lake. Edited December 16, 2007 by chilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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